Azerite has failed, for now

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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Sidenote: Cajones = drawers (like furniture). Cojones = what you meant :)


Lol, indeed. Fixed
I am all for chests having 1 azerite piece 1 M+ piece. I raid but that does not guarantee I will get lucky enough to get azerite pieces of loot from raid. For that matter I seem to always get cloaks and gloves.
How in the world getting one piece of azertie gear from the chest would break the system is beyond me.
Now if my azerite pieces don't drop in raid I cant even try to get pieces from anywhere else. Sure M+ has a chance to drop one a week, just a chance. I can try farming M+ for all the other slots. IF i had the time I could run 100 M+s to fill up other loot slots. Since there is no chance of azerite gear in the M+ chest at the end of the run a guaranteed piece in the weekly chest would be great.
09/21/2018 02:58 PMPosted by Lore
That's is why we're hesitant to do something like add a guaranteed piece of Azerite Armor to the weekly chest - it'd be too lucrative.


But they're not asking to have it able to drop from the spammable runs, which would be a potential problem.

Just the weekly chest. They can't warforge/titanforge, they're lower ilvl than standard loot on most keys.

How long are M+ players supposed to be expected to wait to replace their 340s?
09/22/2018 12:41 PMPosted by Dæthmistress
I am all for chests having 1 azerite piece 1 M+ piece. I raid but that does not guarantee I will get lucky enough to get azerite pieces of loot from raid. For that matter I seem to always get cloaks and gloves.
How in the world getting one piece of azertie gear from the chest would break the system is beyond me.
Now if my azerite pieces don't drop in raid I cant even try to get pieces from anywhere else. Sure M+ has a chance to drop one a week, just a chance. I can try farming M+ for all the other slots. IF i had the time I could run 100 M+s to fill up other loot slots. Since there is no chance of azerite gear in the M+ chest at the end of the run a guaranteed piece in the weekly chest would be great.


Can't be having people gear too fast - gotta keep em logging in.
I remember in early July when during the dev QnA they said dungeon Azerite gear would only come from weekly cache, and immediately we brought up how it made going for certain traits untargetable. Its literally worse than legendaries for certain classes. Legendaries you would eventually get what you wanted, but with Azerite armor, you need new pieces every tier.
09/21/2018 02:58 PMPosted by Lore

We also agree that the Mythic+ Azerite Armor situation isn't ideal. However, we need to be careful with how we award Azerite Armor through M+. Right now, easier access to Azerite Armor is one of the main advantages that raiding has over gearing exclusively through Mythic+, and we want to keep some additional benefit there as compensation for the extra effort and coordination needed to organize a raid team. That's is why we're hesitant to do something like add a guaranteed piece of Azerite Armor to the weekly chest - it'd be too lucrative.

But like I said, we do agree that the current setup can be frustrating. We're looking for better options.


This is categorized under "problems blizzard created for itself". We already had a perfectly working and MUCH more satisfying system in place with class raid tier sets.

Not only did this give us a reason to raid, when you got those pieces you weren't locked out of their benefits until you ground horrible currency #3257.
09/21/2018 02:58 PMPosted by Lore
Couple things:

We agree that the trait imbalance is a real problem right now. We made a bunch of tuning adjustments last week, and have more planned for the very near future (primarily focused on buffing underperforming traits). We see this as the source of most of the frustrations with the system; if the delta between your best and worst traits wasn't so big, it'd be less frustrating when a piece of Azerite armor doesn't have your best trait on it.

We also agree that the Mythic+ Azerite Armor situation isn't ideal. However, we need to be careful with how we award Azerite Armor through M+. Right now, easier access to Azerite Armor is one of the main advantages that raiding has over gearing exclusively through Mythic+, and we want to keep some additional benefit there as compensation for the extra effort and coordination needed to organize a raid team. That's is why we're hesitant to do something like add a guaranteed piece of Azerite Armor to the weekly chest - it'd be too lucrative.

But like I said, we do agree that the current setup can be frustrating. We're looking for better options.


So instead you just completely removed the reason to do M+.

Some of the traits are such garbage that outside of completely removing them they cant be balanced.
Strength of Spirit?
Really?
Self Reliance?
Did a drunk intern make these?
You guys have failed to make a single worthwhile tanking trinket for 2 expansions now.
Grats.
"We want players to have choices in how their spec plays. This choice will be based on your azerite gear."
Okay, so can we pick and choose our azerite gear?
"Yes! Once you get your azerite gear you should be able to swap pieces and traits around so you can play your spec the way you want!"
But, wait. . . once we get azerite? Isnt that exactly the problem we had with the legendaries in legion?
"No, see theres a lot of azerite gear and so so many different traits!"
But i cant choose the gear i get, and azerite gear is gated behind the same crap RNG as other gear. . . how exactly is this a meaningful choice exactly?
"But look at all the traits!"
Not really the point. If all the customization of play is locked behind RNG i only get to customize if i win the pieces i want and because it looks like we have to replace azerite gear every tier of content its not even as consistent as the Legion Legendaries. So, what actual meaningful choices do i have here other than doing the best i can with the crap your slot machine loot system spits out at me?
"Were doing balance tuning on the traits!"
. . . FFS Blizzard.
09/21/2018 02:58 PMPosted by Lore
Couple things:

We agree that the trait imbalance is a real problem right now. We made a bunch of tuning adjustments last week, and have more planned for the very near future (primarily focused on buffing underperforming traits). We see this as the source of most of the frustrations with the system; if the delta between your best and worst traits wasn't so big, it'd be less frustrating when a piece of Azerite armor doesn't have your best trait on it.

We also agree that the Mythic+ Azerite Armor situation isn't ideal. However, we need to be careful with how we award Azerite Armor through M+. Right now, easier access to Azerite Armor is one of the main advantages that raiding has over gearing exclusively through Mythic+, and we want to keep some additional benefit there as compensation for the extra effort and coordination needed to organize a raid team. That's is why we're hesitant to do something like add a guaranteed piece of Azerite Armor to the weekly chest - it'd be too lucrative.

But like I said, we do agree that the current setup can be frustrating. We're looking for better options.


I can't really speak for many, but one of the reasons I refer M+ is because you can run it as much as you want, and there's guaranteed loot at the end, as well as a guaranteed titanforge at the end of the week.

Have you thought about having a raider's cache, where they get a guaranteed titanforge at the end of their week for clearing or doing up to X bosses?
As for the inbalance, I think eventually Blizz will get it semi-ok. And I'm ok with that.

My biggest problem with the system, is the neck level requirements for Azerite Traits. I understand it's supposed to be a grind, but right now it's way too steep.

I'll get a sweet chest upgrade, but I can't equip it because I can't use its traits. So instead of being happy that I got a nice upgrade, I'm annoyed that I can't use it.
You know there is a very easy fix to azerite armor. Add the ability to forge your previous azerite piece into the higher ilvl one. If that's too imbalanced just allow one to be forged into it. People can customize their traits and it will actually feel good to get bigger pieces.
Maybe i ain't looking at the bigger picture. Someone else could clarify. I know rng is a major thing in rpgs. The gamble of the game makes it addicting.

So if rng is a factor blizz isn't wanting to get rid of. Why not make a buy system to re-randomize the azerite traits on the gear.

ex: 5 expulsions to randomize the tiers.

This will at least give me a chance for something better.
I agree, I was outlaw at the start because the trait was good, they nerfed it, so now i had to farm for weeks to get BIS traits for assassination then it got nerfed the next week. Now im stuck farming more azerite gear that wont drop cause RNG and personal loot.

I hate the fact that theres so many pieces of azerite gear and yet it rarely drops.

This system is just horrible. Having a 355 or 370 piece and not being able to use it cause a 340 is better is just sad. Not enjoying the expansion as much because of this bad system.
Rented progression systems are awful, I want no part in them.

Nothing about it feels good that you're basically playing a game of tearing out holes in your kit to replace them with something else that will be ripped out in the future.

Gaining item drops that somehow constantly change what benefit you gain instead of the Legion artifacts where you felt real progression in gaining permanent benefits over the course of the xpac..
09/21/2018 02:58 PMPosted by Lore


We also agree that the Mythic+ Azerite Armor situation isn't ideal. However, we need to be careful with how we award Azerite Armor through M+. Right now, easier access to Azerite Armor is one of the main advantages that raiding has over gearing exclusively through Mythic+, and we want to keep some additional benefit there as compensation for the extra effort and coordination needed to organize a raid team. That's is why we're hesitant to do something like add a guaranteed piece of Azerite Armor to the weekly chest - it'd be too lucrative.


I don't even care that this is the case anymore...I wish it wasn't the case but I'm over the fact that it is, I just wish if that if this is really your intention that you'd make the bosses that drop Azerite armor (in raids) drop it far more often...because right now I'm not seeing it. I'm glad I got the damn shoulders off G'huun a few nights ago but of the seven people who got loot I was the ONLY person to get an Azerite piece...if these bosses are supposed to be the most optimal sources for these pieces of gear then you're doing it wrong.

Oh...copying a piece of another post I made to put here since it's very relevant:

"The only reason I can see for this is someone on the design team thinking azerite gear needs to be exclusive since it's the new "tier"...and while I would get that, the big difference here is that tier always had an alternative you could slot in where it went, not necessarily an amazing one, but alternatives always have existed until now. There is no alternative to azerite pieces....all they're doing is making chestpieces, shoulders, and helmets rarer for no reason."

Something to consider....it just seems like there's no reason behind the scarcity of azerite gear
09/22/2018 04:30 PMPosted by Lokomachine
Oh...copying a piece of another post I made to put here since it's very relevant:

"The only reason I can see for this is someone on the design team thinking azerite gear needs to be exclusive since it's the new "tier"...and while I would get that, the big difference here is that tier always had an alternative you could slot in where it went, not necessarily an amazing one, but alternatives always have existed until now. There is no alternative to azerite pieces....all they're doing is making chestpieces, shoulders, and helmets rarer for no reason."

Something to consider....it just seems like there's no reason behind the scarcity of azerite gear

Been saying this since beta.

What is also bothering me, and I have not seen it mentioned anywhere yet: Raiding and M+ work completely different.

While raiding is - for better or worse - working on a weekly basis, Mythic+ is specifically created to be repeatable, to grind, to push.

Taking the 3 most important item slots out of the equation is - again - a ridiculously bad design which brings a whole slew of problems with it.

Hence the discussion, the frustration and the typical "We certainly did not...", "We are aware...", "We are thinking about it..." and "We feel that..." -- They can't even titan forge, so cut the crap, Blizzard.

Give us plenty of loot. Without loot, no choice and without choice no "meaningful decisions", which you seem to love so much.
None of the tuning adjustments will address the fact that azerite is nothing more than a punitive retention scheme. The philosophy of the development team when dramatically reducing the number of pieces with post modification in MoP (removing belt buckles, glove, chest, shoulder, leg, head, and now neck and cloak enchants, removing reforging) was that it felt super bad to get a piece of loot to drop and not immediately be able to equip it as an upgrade. For most players those systems put a delay between getting the drop and equipping it in the magnitude of minutes to hours. Azerite level grinding can delay equipping an exciting drop for days to weeks while you get the levels needed to activate it or activate it as thoroughly as your previous piece. This needs to be addressed.
Class design has failed for this xpac. Shaman are terrible, Prot warriors may as well dps in raids, feral druids cat forms should be tabby cats, warlocks used to be feared now people look for them to kill, and Shaman are terrible, that needed to be said twice. I totally agree on the Azerite, it is poorly thought out and it takes to long to unlock traits plus as the OP said some traits are so bad you sometimes wish an item just wouldn't drop.

I will say that while class design has been awful D- at best, the art design of the game is incredible. The zones, the dungeons, the cities, all are just beautiful. The new races and animal designs are tremendous. I give the art design team an A+.

**Edit** The people responsible for the story also get a solid A. I actually enjoyed playing through it despite being an elemental shaman while leveling.
Nobody likes this system. Getting an "upgrade" and it being worse than your current gear b/c you have to grind Azerite levels is so backwards.

Matter of fact, this whole system makes you feel like you went backwards. We feel like nerfed Legion versions of ourselves. It feels like we lost so much since the last expac and the azerite system do not compensate at all.

The only thing that got better in WoW is the art team. The game, class/balance/system, design is ATROCIOUS. I'm getting fed up honestly...
We're a month into the expansion, and these talents have been on the PTR for over 5 months, been tested and simmed by the community, and they're still way off.

They vary so wildly in strength. For example, my boomkin has a trait with 800 DPS. The next boomkin specific trait is Dawning Sun at about 250 dps. Thats 1/3 the power. Its so bad I have literally no clue how do you go 5 months without fixing these things.

If traits were within 10% performance of each other (resulted in ~ .5% damage difference overall), it wouldn't be too bad, but when something is less than a third, I just don't know what to say.

The system cannot function when only a handful of available traits are even useful. If they were somewhat close I wouldn't mind the RNG lotto M+ cache system for azerite pieces, but the variance is literally worse than what legendaries were in Emerald Nightmare.

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