Blizzard Ignores DK's in arena

Death Knight
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10/06/2018 05:51 PMPosted by Nayld
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I think even after these supposed 8.1 changes go through, we won't see a drastic change. Your burst will go up due to the chill streak buff, but lichborne is only going to cure part of the survivability problem. So I could see us being "okay-ish" in things like DK/DH/x and TSG or possibly even DK/rogue/x.

The real problem lies in the damage we take outside of opponent burst phases and our inability to mitigate it. We have plate armor but it sure doesn't feel like it. We need something else as other classes have either passive damage mitigators, quite a few more defensive cd's, or the ability to kite.

I think things might be salvageable through small buffs/re-added abilities. But it's getting to the point where it's gonna be on the knife's edge of needing a rework soon if blizz continues down the path they're on.

-edit- I'd like to add that no other class has to stay in the fray of things in attempt to build resources to use their "passive" mitigation aka heals like we do. Even feral druids can kite and heal behind pillars. We have to actively generate resources and spend it (very expensive I might add) to try and survive while being victim to damage that in no way will be outhealed by our death strike. lol
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10/06/2018 06:04 PMPosted by Tintey
10/06/2018 05:51 PMPosted by Nayld
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I think even after these supposed 8.1 changes go through, we won't see a drastic change. Your burst will go up due to the chill streak buff, but lichborne is only going to cure part of the survivability problem. So I could see us being "okay-ish" in things like DK/DH/x and TSG or possibly even DK/rogue/x.

The real problem lies in the damage we take outside of opponent burst phases and our inability to mitigate it. We have plate armor but it sure doesn't feel like it. We need something else as other classes have either passive damage mitigators, quite a few more defensive cd's, or the ability to kite.

I think things might be salvageable through small buffs/re-added abilities. But it's getting to the point where it's gonna be on the knife's edge of needing a rework soon if blizz continues down the path they're on.

-edit- I'd like to add that no other class has to stay in the fray of things in attempt to build resources to use their "passive" mitigation aka heals like we do. Even feral druids can kite and heal behind pillars. We have to actively generate resources and spend it (very expensive I might add) to try and survive while being victim to damage that in no way will be outhealed by our death strike. lol

I agree with what you say, but personal think that there's more fundamental problems with DKs.
- Armor in general means nothing anymore. Pretty much all damage types go right thru plate (I'd also put chain in there to). The other melee specs that wear plate or mail. Have ways to sustain themselves at least for awhile.
Dks lack sustainable defenses. I'm classifying sustainable defenses has heals, or dcds that have a short CD. Frost has permafrost, which I've never noticed any difference when taking. Unholy has just kiting. Both have AMS which feels very weak (even though its really not). With deathstrike's nerf I can't count it as sustainable.
- Then look at the playstyle of the specs. Unholy is a subpar survival hunter. Surv outshines unholy in pretty much every area.
Frost seems like the devs are trying for a risk vs reward playstyle. The risk outweighs the reward in most cases. BoD has a high reward with some risks in pve. In pvp the risk of it heavily outweighs the reward. Deathpact the risk overshadows the reward. Especially with MS being somewhat widespread and dampening affecting it. Not even going to touch lichborne. That defense is too much risk for the reward.
Dps dks have quite a few problems. Either from overnerfing in pvp or stemming for the core of the specs. That's not even touching how little the 3 dk specs share an overall dk theme. Frost being the most prevalent of the 3.
My 3 minute dragon hits for 11k base in PvP.

Let that sink in.
10/10/2018 11:41 PMPosted by Malus
My 3 minute dragon hits for 11k base in PvP.

Let that sink in.


meanwhile templars verdict does triple that
10/10/2018 11:46 PMPosted by Chaaka
10/10/2018 11:41 PMPosted by Malus
My 3 minute dragon hits for 11k base in PvP.

Let that sink in.


meanwhile templars verdict does triple that

Comparing ST ability to multi target ability..
Try a better comparison. Like bladestorm or wake of ashes. Both has shorter cds and superior damage.
10/10/2018 11:54 PMPosted by Curzè
10/10/2018 11:46 PMPosted by Chaaka
...

meanwhile templars verdict does triple that

Comparing ST ability to multi target ability..
Try a better comparison. Like bladestorm or wake of ashes. Both has shorter cds and superior damage.


True enough
keep making constructive posts and tweeting at them on twitter to get attention
It has been mentionned by others that in its current iteration, frost and unholy death knights lack survivability

I think death knights being the slowest most immobile class in the game is commonly accepted by the playerbase, but we ought to consider bringing passive mitigation back to Death Knights. (Presences ala defensive stance as talents baseline seem like the way to go)

Also Dk have been known in pvp to strive because of their disruptive nature. Perhaps making abilities such as frost strike or obliterate refresh the duration of chains of ice would be a great way to increase the lockdown potential of frost Dk.

Perhaps providing unholy dks with their pet leap interrupt function that sits on a 30sec cd baseline ( Keep the root tied to the dark transformation but make the interrupt baseline) would help unholy greatly with their own disruptive nature.

Perhaps consider distinguishing death knights from other melees by giving them strangulate baseline as a CC would help DKs make a point for themselves in this highly contested melee landscape for arena 3v3 viability.

Perhaps increase the mind freeze lockout to 4 seconds could help the disruptive nature of Death Knights.

Perhaps increasing the heal % from fallen crusader to 8% would help death knights sustain themselves in pvp.

Just throwing ideas out there to fuel the discussion.

Keep in mind the built in aoe inherent to some of our abilities also breaks CC like polymorph traps or even fears.

That in itself puts DK at an odd place when looking to team with some classes in arena. It is very prohibitive and could be helped greatly by having strangulate baseline.

Lastly, QoL changes: death grip off the gcd, perhaps reduce the cd by 5 sec (could be baked into the death grip talent if too potent). Make it reset if target is immune. Dark simulacrum off the gcd.

Keep the discussion going guys!
10/10/2018 11:41 PMPosted by Malus
My 3 minute dragon hits for 11k base in PvP.

Let that sink in.


https://www.wowhead.com/spell=210128/reanimation

Reanimated corpses hit harder than your 3 minute dragon.

Let that sink in.
Giving DKs strangulate baseline doesn't make them unique as it's effectively hammer of justice. Perhaps it should be on a 30 second cooldown however since Warriors have the exact same thing in Stormbolt.

We know they have skills that give you a stacking buff the longer you stand still. A frost defensive skill that reduces damage by 5% for every second you stand still stacking up to 5 times and decaying 1 stack a second as you move could be interesting.

But there's also an issue of the class just not being fun to play
Doesn't look like any changes are going to go in for this season, at least that's what it seems like from ion's video. Changes are on the horizon, but whether they make a difference or not too little too late. They're fine with certain classes being trash for the season apparently, according to his comments on 'rot' specs. I no longer have any faith in the design team. I'll just wait till they're replaced. GG DKs

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