State of Shadow, 8.1 Edition

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10/24/2018 02:55 AMPosted by Dimeetri
I just played around with the new changes in the PTR and I'm not impressed. They say they want longer voidforms, but the changes are too minor to really make much of a difference.

The longest voidform I got was 32 stacks and that was with using Void Torrent and Shadow Fiend on a target dummy. In any normal encounter, with all the movement, I still see us hanging around the 22-25 stacks range.

Do note, my haste is a bit on the lower end (15% outside of uldir), so mileage may vary, but compared to live, I'm not noticing much of a difference in the feel/rotation/length of voidform.

One of the things that's potentially killing voidform uptime is the god awful synchronicity of the SWP and VT durations. The only way I could avoid having to refresh my dots mid-voidform was to recast both dots before void eruption, even if they had a decent amount of duration left on them. The spec still feels clunky and there are still some core mechanical issues with the class that these current changes do nothing to address.


I agree, it felt pretty unimpressive. Feels like lotv/lingering will be baseline over dark ascension/bender now for most situations imo. Aoe damage improves a small amount maybe around 10% or so, but our aoe damage wasn't terrible to begin with. Single target was pretty much no difference do to the aura modifier change. And in heavy movement situations where we'll drop out of voidform early it actually ends up being a nerf. Sooooo yea. Not good yet. If they do some qol changes it would be passable. Make mind blast have 2 baseline charges and death back to baseline. That would definitely make it better significantly. But we already knew that.
So unfortunately the new changes seem to prove blizzard is not reading feedback, and is not actually paying attention to theory crafters and top priests.

Its another "patchy" buff that in reality doesn't amount to jack !@#$ and does nothing to solve the deeper and more critical problems with the spec. And nother "buff" that is more like a nerf in certain situations.

All we can do is keep hyping this thread and hope they read it. But the current changes will NOT keep Spriests around, and if anything may drive more away.
The current 8.1 ptr changes were probably slapped together in one day. Hell they didnt even roll out the removal of voidform from void torrent. its a total rush job

It feels exactly the same. Void form lasts all of 3 or 4 seconds longer, absolutely best case scenario(Mindbender off cooldown, not moving at all, perfect latency)

And to top it off azerite traits are so confusing. I wish we still had tier at this point
Don't forget when you use Surrender it doesn't really increase it much more than that.
If Shadow doesn't have at least a significant attempt to fix it, and the current changes don't come close, by the time 8.1 goes live, I'm out. Maybe I'll come back if I hear they revamped Shadow this expansion, but otherwise I'll probably just wait until the final patch of this expansion to come back and prepare for the next one.

Or who knows. The experience in BFA has been pretty bad thus far. Maybe I'll skip the next expansion. Unless they do another "OH !@#$, WE BETTER PULL OUT ALL THE STOPS AND REALLY TRY HARD" expansion, like with Legion.
10/24/2018 02:56 PMPosted by Toxn
So unfortunately the new changes seem to prove blizzard is not reading feedback, and is not actually paying attention to theory crafters and top priests.

They didn't do that in alpha or beta; I wouldn't expect them to start now.
Over 900 posts in this thread now.

Do you think Blizzard just didn't read any or them? Or did they simply decide our feedback doesn't matter and they'll forge ahead on their own regardless of what we want, how we feel, or how the class plays?

Both? Probably both.
I think Blizzard has their design for the spec and player input simply isn't that important. The Elemental "rework" was just as pointless as Shadow - it completely ignored feedback and ignored key issues as well. This is just how the current class devs work. They have a design for the spec, and it is based off a spreadsheet, not actual gameplay.

I really think the current approach at Blizz is just to make the classes simple and stick with their design plan, without the need to really pay attention to input. They seem to believe that if players don't like how a spec works, well, lots of other specs to choose from.

These changes do help the spec feel less awful, which is the best you can get with current class design. Pick a spec based not on what is fun, but on what is the least awful.
10/24/2018 04:05 PMPosted by Linjea
10/24/2018 02:56 PMPosted by Toxn
So unfortunately the new changes seem to prove blizzard is not reading feedback, and is not actually paying attention to theory crafters and top priests.

They didn't do that in alpha or beta; I wouldn't expect them to start now.


Oh we left beta? I thought that's what the b in bfa stood for, beta for azeroth right?
Fix the MB/VB overlap and make SW:Death baseline again.

I'll be content.
10/24/2018 05:22 PMPosted by Thorhammer
Fix the MB/VB overlap and make SW:Death baseline again.

I'll be content.
The sad part is, basically you are wanting what we had before and to you (and to others) that would be considered a "fix". So a fix is reverting attempted fixes.

Its like contracting a company for a kitchen remodel, paying them, having them not listen to anything you wanted and the whole experience turning into a !@#$ show, so you pay them double to just put everything back the way it was since at this point that would be an improvement. So at the end of the day you have payed twice to end up with the exact same kitchen, and yet somehow it feels like a new kitchen and an improvement.

For %^-*s sake blizzard... get your !@#$ together.
10/23/2018 08:35 AMPosted by Aimou
They also really need to look at chorus of insanity. It already was the bis trait and woth the changes allowing longer vf times it will be even more valuable. They either need to bring the other traits in line or do something to balance chorus.


They nerfed Chorus...
10/24/2018 09:13 PMPosted by Eridana
10/23/2018 08:35 AMPosted by Aimou
They also really need to look at chorus of insanity. It already was the bis trait and woth the changes allowing longer vf times it will be even more valuable. They either need to bring the other traits in line or do something to balance chorus.


They nerfed Chorus...

Yea noticed that yesterday when I finally got to play on the ptr. Seems like it does about 60% of the dps it did before. Pretty on par with most of the shadow specific traits, but generic traits are higher dps in most single target situations (like blightborn).
10/24/2018 05:22 PMPosted by Thorhammer
Fix the MB/VB overlap and make SW:Death baseline again.

I'll be content.


This.

If they do nothing else, they have to do this or Shadow will remain a dead spec all expansion.

It will still be an underperforming 'bad' spec, but it will be playable if the rotation is fixed, and the insult of removing Death is remedied.
...
Still no word outside of that one post that doesn't really change anything with the 2 nerfs one to our aura and one to COI.
they gave solid numbers buffs then nerfed our one trait that made us do any dmg...

so we pretty much live in the same world where we do very average dmg on top of having a super clunky combat mechanic, the difference is now everyone thinks we play a spec that needs no more attention
People are going to realize the changes didn't really do much and still decline you for invites.
10/26/2018 06:42 AMPosted by Lucksniipe
they gave solid numbers buffs then nerfed our one trait that made us do any dmg...

so we pretty much live in the same world where we do very average dmg on top of having a super clunky combat mechanic, the difference is now everyone thinks we play a spec that needs no more attention


They increased the damage you do in VF but hit us with an aura nerf for 3% across all of our spells. Seems to be the exact same numbers regardless. Which mean nothing of value even happened we still clip MB with VB and our dots hit for basically nothing on a dot based class.

There are plenty of other problems with shadow but these are the main two that really just make it feel horrible to play.
Compare our AoE to any other class you are likely to see every other class on top of us when it comes to that. M+ is mostly trash packs which means who ever can clear them fastest is always going to be preferred over anything else regardless of what week it is (tyrannical or fortified). These changes don't really fix that. Which means we are still a second class citizen in a fantasy game.

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