State of Shadow, 8.1 Edition

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
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10/28/2018 10:23 PMPosted by Malyx
10/28/2018 06:53 PMPosted by Maybeitsroxx
Well our other topic locked out at 500 posts imagine that.


That basically just means they weren't reading the feeback to begin with in that thread so they didn't uncap it


They didnt even implement the removal of voidform from void torrent! If anyone needed a clear case of Giving No !@#$s, well there you have it
10/28/2018 11:24 AMPosted by Toxn
10/28/2018 06:11 AMPosted by Dirtymind
They need to stop this "we will fix it next patch" mentality and fix it sooner. Cause Next Patch should mean big changes... 4 months and that blue post of some % changes and a slight tuning or rotation/resources seem meek, no innovation or real address to the key issues of mechanics, it was merely a rollback to past Legion power fantasy.
I agree but the problem is that their mentality doesn't seem to also include player feedback, but rather choosing a design and sticking to it even if its a disaster. Its as if they can't admit they made a mistake, and wont listen to players who actually play the class.
I have made a similar comment elsewhere and its this...

Blizzard this week is hosting a whole convention full of players, many of them have personally been invited by Blizzard to walk through those doors as media, youtubers, steamers, influencers, competitors etc... and they are there to ask Blizzard questions, and instead of avoiding the difficult questions with scripted responses like an echo chamber... Blizzard should just turn around and ask those players "What are we doing wrong? and would you like to come to the campus and sit in with some brainstorming sessions as a knowledge expert and get us back on track with the community"

Give a day with a room full of Shadow Priests, will open up their minds to the possibilities and issues and come up with real solutions... and do the same for everything. Every class/spec and every content expert from raiding, to gold farming, to pet battles, to transmogs. Community Open Day.

I think Blizzard over the last few years has been making too many assumptions on what players want... when a players favourite avatar is broken, the player feels broken. That should never be a thing in a game with a community this huge!
I get a feeling they are just going to leave the other thread capped.
10/29/2018 01:14 AMPosted by Dirtymind
I have made a similar comment elsewhere and its this...

Blizzard this week is hosting a whole convention full of players, many of them have personally been invited by Blizzard to walk through those doors as media, youtubers, steamers, influencers, competitors etc... and they are there to ask Blizzard questions, and instead of avoiding the difficult questions with scripted responses like an echo chamber... Blizzard should just turn around and ask those players "What are we doing wrong? and would you like to come to the campus and sit in with some brainstorming sessions as a knowledge expert and get us back on track with the community"

Give a day with a room full of Shadow Priests, will open up their minds to the possibilities and issues and come up with real solutions... and do the same for everything. Every class/spec and every content expert from raiding, to gold farming, to pet battles, to transmogs. Community Open Day.

I think Blizzard over the last few years has been making too many assumptions on what players want... when a players favourite avatar is broken, the player feels broken. That should never be a thing in a game with a community this huge!


You're more hopeful than I could ever hope to be. Blizzcon's already got a schedule, so there isn't really a chance for there to be anything like that (at least not this year), and I actually don't think it'd be a great idea to even have something like that. Development cycles and even brainstorming sessions are most likely longer than (part of) a single day, and as much as I'd like some things to change myself, I'm not sure the playerbase should be allowed so close to development that they basically get a direct hand in it. As much as some of us may try to claim, we're not actually WoW developers and a lot of us don't look at (or can even see) the big picture when it comes to changes. I think threads like this, though we don't really see as much on Blizzard's end as we might like, are really the most we should be allowed to have. This thread is basically your 'room full of Shadow priests', and Blizzard is free to peruse it and collect feedback. It's not really as much of a back-and-forth as it could be, but it's still something, right?
Well given that patch 8.1 could come out as early as tomorrow then what, we wait for another 77 days for the rotation to be worked on?
10/29/2018 08:38 AMPosted by Maybeitsroxx
Well given that patch 8.1 could come out as early as tomorrow then what, we wait for another 77 days for the rotation to be worked on?
Its not due to come out until early December I believe.

That said, regardless of when it comes out, the same concerns were expressed in Beta, so at this point the complete fix should be ready, they shouldnt be blindly groping along feeding half fixes, half truths, and full bull!@#$.
How exactly is it not due till december? They were trying to go by 77 days per patch last I read about it. August 14, 2018 - October 30, 2018 would be 77 days exactly.
Don't forget to ask questions to be submitted to the blizzcon panel. One of the few chances we might get for feedback since they seem to ignore the forums.

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769758452#1
I asked one question lets see what the chances of getting some answers are.
10/29/2018 09:09 AMPosted by Maybeitsroxx
How exactly is it not due till december? They were trying to go by 77 days per patch last I read about it. August 14, 2018 - October 30, 2018 would be 77 days exactly.


I'd be shocked if 8.1 dropped the week before Blizzcon, but who knows?
10/29/2018 09:09 AMPosted by Maybeitsroxx
How exactly is it not due till december? They were trying to go by 77 days per patch last I read about it. August 14, 2018 - October 30, 2018 would be 77 days exactly.
All I know is the general thoughts based upon the status of the PTR, and what has/has not shown up yet, combined with the fact that the PTR has a lot of "December holiday" stuff, and the timing of Blizzcon, seemed to point towards early December as its drop date.

Then again, at this point who knows what Blizzard is going to do. What I do know, is that the status of the patch is such that if it dropped anytime in the next week, it would be a shock because of how unready it is. Of course, this Xpack has been known as Beta for Azeroth so... maybe I shouldn't be shocked.
10/29/2018 01:14 AMPosted by Dirtymind
<span class="truncated">...</span>I agree but the problem is that their mentality doesn't seem to also include player feedback, but rather choosing a design and sticking to it even if its a disaster. Its as if they can't admit they made a mistake, and wont listen to players who actually play the class.
I have made a similar comment elsewhere and its this...

Blizzard this week is hosting a whole convention full of players, many of them have personally been invited by Blizzard to walk through those doors as media, youtubers, steamers, influencers, competitors etc... and they are there to ask Blizzard questions, and instead of avoiding the difficult questions with scripted responses like an echo chamber... Blizzard should just turn around and ask those players "What are we doing wrong? and would you like to come to the campus and sit in with some brainstorming sessions as a knowledge expert and get us back on track with the community"

Give a day with a room full of Shadow Priests, will open up their minds to the possibilities and issues and come up with real solutions... and do the same for everything. Every class/spec and every content expert from raiding, to gold farming, to pet battles, to transmogs. Community Open Day.

I think Blizzard over the last few years has been making too many assumptions on what players want... when a players favourite avatar is broken, the player feels broken. That should never be a thing in a game with a community this huge!


Your suggestion about reaching out to some shadow priest players is actually very similar to what Xelnath did with Warlocks. Reached out to the Warlock communities top Locks, and redid their class with their help. People liked Xelnath.

Xelnath ended up being fired. As I understand it, creative differences with other blizz employees, he sorta exploded in frustration, then that was that. I could be wrong, my memory of this is a bit rusty.
Really hope by the time 8.1 drops blizzard realizes all they need to do is make shadow work void and shadow word death baseline and just do it already
Give a day with a room full of Shadow Priests, will open up their minds to the possibilities and issues and come up with real solutions... and do the same for everything. Every class/spec and every content expert from raiding, to gold farming, to pet battles, to transmogs. Community Open Day.


Your suggestion about reaching out to some shadow priest players is actually very similar to what Xelnath did with Warlocks. Reached out to the Warlock communities top Locks, and redid their class with their help. People liked Xelnath.

Xelnath ended up being fired. As I understand it, creative differences with other blizz employees, he sorta exploded in frustration, then that was that. I could be wrong, my memory of this is a bit rusty.[/quote]Thats a shame to hear... but I wasn't just talking about one class/spec... I mean all of them, I mean all content, get experience and influential opinions from the community on content, itemisation, lore, design, customer service, merchandising... seriously their is a wealth of knowledge in the community that could put them back on track.

Why ask Blizzard questions... when Blizzard could be asking us questions
I wish that could happen for us. I may not have the best ideas possible but I definitely have a lot of feed back regarding most specs in the game because I multiclass every expansion. Who knows maybe we will get lucky and they will answer some spriest questions. I was going to say atleast we could get a definite yes or no however... The first thing that came to mind is instant misdirection and maybe this maybe that. I'm still advocating for shadow to be fixed and will until it does get changed in a meaningful way that actually fixes the rotation.

We need a summoning ritual to call on Sephuz to help us out here.

The problem always ends up being the same things Ive been harping on this entire time.
Mindblast needs either to be 2 charges or fix the constant lining up of VB and MB every time you are in VoidForm it is very counter-intuitive. Raging Blow and Blood Thirst had these same problems and they way they addressed it was to give raging blow 2 charges and allow raging blow to proc another free raging blow charge. This is an example of a great change that made the rotation feel good for fury warrior.

Making VF matter more likely will not solve the problem Spriest currently faces with Voidform and dungeons. M+ has become a staple for gearing and general re playability for the game. SPriest does not function well in this type of environment because of several problems.

1. We still don't have a baseline way to spread our dots to targets Aff has Seed, Boomkin has Sunfire, FireMage mastery spreads its self. Feral is in this same boat but is also in the same predicament where we are forced to pick a talent to be able to spread dots. This should be considered a design flaw. (Quick note I regard Feral as a melee shadow priest by design.)

2. Our AoE burst ability is tied to VF which is going to work against our interests in situations where burst AoE is needed. You can look at this two different ways....
Either we are DoT spread pressure or we are Burst AoE with some dots. The class Identity of Shadow IMO is we are DoT spread pressure more than we are AoE burst. We do not bladestorm or Eye Beam therefore we should have tools to do what we do better than other classes. This all goes back into the class Niche.

3. Our main 3 minute CD is Shadowfiend... when you compare this to other classes big 3 minute cds this is very lackluster and unfun. It's a 3 minute fire and forget button that has no unique interactions and has no real flavor outside of "Priest has had this from the beginning of WoW history." I suggest we take a look at what it means to be using the Void. I personally love the idea of VF and wish that we could find a way to make it awesome. This 3 minute cooldown has many options on how to fix it honestly I can give you one off the top of my head right now. How about for a 3 minute cd instead of boring shadow fiend we have a cd that uses the void to summon tentacles or that awesome orb that we used to have from the artifact weapon.

4. Sticking with the idea that shadow priest is basically a spread dot pressure class we need a way to make our dots actually stronger. I think moving all of our damage into our single target abilities completely removes what makes Shadow Priest Shadow. The idea was to keep voidform while making it and its stacks matter less. I think that was the wrong direction, wouldn't it make sense to just cap how many stacks you have and have buttons to maintain it. Surely it would have felt better than our current iteration.

5. Our current rotation does not flow at all. As mentioned prior to now Mind Blast and Void Bolt are always competing with each other to be the next cast. Currently we only have 3 buttons we press during VF, MB VB MF (Mindblast Voidbolt Mindflay for people not versed in Spriest) I don't mind condensing rotations as long as they have interactions with each other Shadow completely lacks unique interaction with its abilities. This is a design flaw.

Copied this over from one of my previous posts on another topic named "15 minutes with a Developer"
These seem to be the current problems that I see with shadow's current design.
10/29/2018 03:15 PMPosted by Talestra
Your suggestion about reaching out to some shadow priest players is actually very similar to what Xelnath did with Warlocks. Reached out to the Warlock communities top Locks, and redid their class with their help. People liked Xelnath.

Xelnath ended up being fired. As I understand it, creative differences with other blizz employees, he sorta exploded in frustration, then that was that. I could be wrong, my memory of this is a bit rusty.


Creative differences: He was creative, they are not.
10/30/2018 05:08 AMPosted by Pantsless
Thats a shame to hear... but I wasn't just talking about one class/spec... I mean all of them, I mean all content, get experience and influential opinions from the community on content, itemisation, lore, design, customer service, merchandising... seriously their is a wealth of knowledge in the community that could put them back on track.

Why ask Blizzard questions... when Blizzard could be asking us questions


Who to listen to, though? For all of their missteps, Blizzard does a pretty good job of making sure to keep players separated from the development process, and threads like this are generally about as close as we get. As cynical as we tend to get regarding the game's status as times, try and seriously think about what the game might look like if every 'I can do better' pposter here on the forums was actually allowed to push their ideas into the game.

Not to say that nobody here has good ideas, just that...we don't really get that level of control here and probably never will, despite what some folks may want.
10/30/2018 12:45 PMPosted by Qaccy
10/30/2018 05:08 AMPosted by Pantsless
Thats a shame to hear... but I wasn't just talking about one class/spec... I mean all of them, I mean all content, get experience and influential opinions from the community on content, itemisation, lore, design, customer service, merchandising... seriously their is a wealth of knowledge in the community that could put them back on track.

Why ask Blizzard questions... when Blizzard could be asking us questions


Who to listen to, though? For all of their missteps, Blizzard does a pretty good job of making sure to keep players separated from the development process, and threads like this are generally about as close as we get. As cynical as we tend to get regarding the game's status as times, try and seriously think about what the game might look like if every 'I can do better' pposter here on the forums was actually allowed to push their ideas into the game.

Not to say that nobody here has good ideas, just that...we don't really get that level of control here and probably never will, despite what some folks may want.


Nobody wants that, nobody has ever said they wanted that, and it's absolutely facetious to present this situation as if that's what people are asking for.

People are making suggestions, ambitious ones, exactly because Blizz has given very little idea of where they want to take the class and because we've been dealing with an extremely hard to balance, very limiting mechanic for years. Nobody expects all their ideas to be picked up.

Hell, I would be happy if Blizzard ignored *every single piece of advice the forums came up with*, went in an entirely different direction for spriest, but it was at least an overhaul of current systems. I would wonder what they were doing, but at least it would show that they understand that current shadow is deeply flawed game design and they're doing something to try and fix it. But that's not what they did. They made some commonsense QoL changes, and then "buffed" our damage, counteracted by hidden aura nerfs and CoI nerfs.

It was an extremely tepid series of changes, and absolutely unjustified waiting months and months for.

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