What is it with this silly anti-tank mentality lately?

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09/17/2018 08:56 AMPosted by Nearo
This kind of behavior has always existed but it was made worse by the "pull the whole dungeon" gogogo M+ days of Legion.


We were pulling whole dungeons back in Mists.

End of expansion gear inflation makes dungeons completely trivial. Has nothing to do with Mythic+.

Post like yours are just attempts to smear the feature, with no actual knowledge of gameplay in the game over the years.

People in WoW, since Vanilla even, have always wanted to complete content as fast as they could.
I think it’s time for us to not be so butthurt when things go a little sideways.

Outside of repeated wipes and obvious sabotage, just suck it up
09/17/2018 02:23 AMPosted by Momimfotm
Since when is Underrot one of the "easier" mythics?


You can brute force that one without all the mechanics, so there's that at least. As opposed to, say, siege which I have yet to get a group to do well on. Someone always dies to the first spit until at least wipe 5, and it rarely gets better.
I'm actually really happy when someone else (healer, dps) take the lead when I tank (I usually ask for it). I prefer healing and tanking and I have always hated DPS roles.

But... I'm new to this game. I've been playing for around 5 months and I do not know all the dungeons - the paths, mechanics (though they're generally pretty simple), etc. I have honestly never come across anyone who was upset by my lack of knowledge and have been rather pleasant in leading the way and pointing me in the general direction of mobs to bash my face into.

I was nervous to start tanking in this game, at first, since I was under the impression that tanks were the leaders and had to know everything. Thankfully, that doesn't seem to be the case and the randoms I queue with are, in general, patient and fun.
People that don't have the spine to tank will always crap all over tanks and insult them at any given chance. This is normal for WoW.

Even if you are a great tank, and all of your friends/guildies know it and you have proven it time and again. it. will. still. happen
09/17/2018 09:02 AMPosted by Beraaht
09/17/2018 08:56 AMPosted by Nearo
This kind of behavior has always existed but it was made worse by the "pull the whole dungeon" gogogo M+ days of Legion.


We were pulling whole dungeons back in Mists.

End of expansion gear inflation makes dungeons completely trivial. Has nothing to do with Mythic+.

Post like yours are just attempts to smear the feature, with no actual knowledge of gameplay in the game over the years.

People in WoW, since Vanilla even, have always wanted to complete content as fast as they could.


I'm not smearing M+. I'm talking about a mindset that was made worse during Legion. I'm aware that this sort of thing has always existed - I said so in the very part of my post you quoted. My point was that it was made worse in Legion and there's a very good quantifiable reason for that.

Tank threat generation in Legion was several times higher than in BFA (and yes, also several times higher than in Mists which you used as an example). This supremely easy threat generation encouraged the "pull the whole dungeon and gogogogogo" sort of behavior because the Tank couldn't lose aggro. Our threat generation now is more or less in line with Mists, but it's still much less than in Legion.

There's a lot of players who couldn't or wouldn't adjust to the new threat meta, and that's a big part of the reason there's less tanks now. I prefer the lowered threat generation we have now vs Legion.

As far as Vanilla, acting like the Shaman in the OP's story meant you would soon find yourself unable to find PUGs because there was no group finder and it was all about server community. You'd make a name for yourself for being a garbage Shaman and would get called out in the Looking for Group channel.
Yesterday i entered a dungeon and said (as a dps) fast run plz, the tank instantly replied: "stf up, this is my run, i'm the tanker" lul.

Yeah he was a DH.
Kick any DPS that has an attitude. Zero tolerance.
09/17/2018 09:53 AMPosted by Blightcaller
Yesterday i entered a dungeon and said (as a dps) fast run plz, the tank instantly replied: "stf up, this is my run, i'm the tanker" lul.

Yeah he was a DH.

Good.
I pug tank quite a bit, and the reality is: groups vary a lot.

I try to get a feel for the personality of the group early on, and adapt accordingly.

Sometimes it goes well, sometimes it doesn't. You get all types of mentalities.

Some players will be very gracious, sometimes it's hard to get a read.

It's true that an occasional group will antagonize the tank. Nothing is ever good enough. I had one of those last week. It does happen, but the opposite also happens.
Reading these replies is exactly why no one wants to tank or even learn. I know I won't ever learn because dealing with these a holes isn't my idea of fun.
09/17/2018 08:36 AMPosted by Seladri
Once again I am affirmed of my decision never to step foot in content that can't be queued for.


As if this doesn’t happen in heroics or LFR too, lol.
My only gripe has been DPS pulling bosses/attacking before I can position them properly. Rezan for example, he is best pulled near the stairs so you can LOS his fear...but twice now DPS goes all balls out and adds start popping up everywhere and it is a cluster till I get control again.
TL DR

Op is a new tank running low content with other people who are also new and low Ilevel and is surprised that he is having issues in dungeons and made a huge wall of text stating so.
09/17/2018 02:00 AMPosted by Silvyrn
Part of tanking dungeons is knowing the skips and whatnot.
Yeah, in an M+. There's no timer on an M0, there's no reason to rush through it.
09/17/2018 08:24 AMPosted by Naonao
If your DPS are pulling, it's because you're too slow and they're getting bored. As long as your healer has mana you should be chain pulling and maybe take a 20sec break before a boss if they need to drink.

...says the hunter.
Post on your main or no cred.
It's because there is too much trash in dungeons and the trash is relatively strong. In addition, there is no reason to run Dungeons from a reward perspective. When you combine these 2 things together, you get a perception that tanks are running Dungeons too slowly.

This will change when people all realize how worthless the Dungeons are and stop running them altogether. But for now the gogogo people will dominate as they think they want to run Dungeons even though they don't actually.
09/17/2018 03:07 AMPosted by Näglfär
09/17/2018 02:04 AMPosted by Mudghost
Just the risks of pugging. But honestly...

...

I wouldn't want to run with someone with this mentality either. I'd prefer to get them done as fast as the pug can reasonably go. It sounds like you go real slow.


And this is why there's a tank shortage, when you aren't playing the role yourself you forfeit the right to dictate how it's run, it's the tanks job to dictate the pace. End of story.

Now tell that to the rest of the dps crowd.
Didn't you know? People get points for skipping trash, even trash that is likely to come around and kill them later.

Put your fresh 110's in heroic dungeons if you want a challenge. Players who won't admit they've never stepped in them before, try to skip the trash or run the wrong way and pull entire rooms that weren't meant to be pulled. Tanks with ilvls of 160.

You'll see every mechanic. And always wipes on certain dungeons. Seriously, they just need to take Karazhan out of rotation, it is way overtuned for the players it gets now.
09/17/2018 04:52 AMPosted by Aamodon
I'm gonna drop a quick revelation on you real quick here. Just because you're the tank does not mean you are the leader. It does not mean you are innately the shot-caller nor does it mean that everyone should hang off your every word.

Communication goes both ways. That Shaman does not know what you are planning to do, he just knows what you are doing. If a well off and geared person is running a M0, its probably because he wants a cosmetic or mount that drops within it (Underrot mythic has a mount that can drop off the last boss) and he probably assumed that anyone aiming to do mythic 0s were equally or slightly less geared players looking to try and earn the same.

You need to be more vocal if you wanna be the leader. That means explaining that you're bringing a carry or that you're teaching someone the instance BEFORE entering the instance. It also means putting your foot down if you see stupid stuff. Someone pulling beyond your comfort zone? Warn them. They do it again? Act on your warning. This is especially true if you haven't even reached a boss yet.

Additionally, its your guildie's job to do his own research BEFORE reaching the boss in question. All the information for every boss is in the dungeon journal, there is no reason why a person should go up to a boss ignorant on the mechanics of the fight.

Everyone is at fault in your scenario, including yourself. Its not a matter of someone trying to usurp the tank, its a matter of a tank who believes they're entitled to the leadership role just because they have bear form.

'Communicate'? You haven't been paying attention to all the dps bratz who post; 'I don't wanna type or talk to you; just go and don't waste my time.'.
I assure you, you try and talk to these clowns and its all '!@#$ noob etc.''.

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