Fixing Guardian Druid for 8.1

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
----------Guardian----------

Bears should feel powerful to play, without having to rely on tricks like movement speed increases to make them valuable tanks. As someone that has been a bear since late Vanilla when I switched from my prot warrior..... I'd be happy to play this spec.

----------Spells----------

Mangle - Mangle the target for [75% of Attack Power] Physical damage. Deals 20% additional damage against bleeding targets. Generates 8 Rage. 6 sec CD.
Thrash - Strikes all nearby enemies, dealing [10% of Attack Power) Bleed damage and an additional [40% of Attack Power] Bleed damage over 15 sec. When applied from Bear Form, this effect can stack up to 3 times. Thrash slows targets by 30% while active. Generates 6 Rage. 6 sec CD.
Pulverize - A devastating blow, that can only be cast on targets that have 2 or more stacks of Thrash, to deal [125% of Attack Power] Physical damage, and reduces all damage you take by 8% for 12 sec. 8 sec CD.
Lacerate - Lacerates the enemy target, dealing [20% of Attack Power] Bleed damage and an additional [15% of Attack Power] Bleed damage per second for 6 sec. Periodic damage from Lacerate generates 2 Rage per tic. 3 sec CD.
Faerie Fire - Faeries surround the target dealing [100% of Spell Power] Arcane damage over 16 sec, preventing stealth and invisibility. Deals [15% of Attack Power] Arcane damage instantly when cast from Bear Form. 12 sec CD.
Swipe - Swipe nearby enemies, inflicting [25% of Attack Power] Physical damage.
Maul - Maul the target for [110% of Attack Power] Physical damage. Costs 30 Rage.
Ironfur - Increases armor by 75% of your Agility for 7 sec. Multiple uses of this ability may overlap. 0.5 sec CD. Costs 50 Rage.
Frenzied Regeneration - Heals you for 21% of maximum health over 3 sec. 2 charges. 36 sec recharge, reduced by haste. Costs 10 Rage.

Berserk - Go into a rage, dealing 20% more damage. While active, Mangle has a 50% reduced CD and hits up to 3 targets. Lasts 15 sec. 3 min CD.
Savage Defense - When you critically strike with an attack that generates Rage, you gain 50% additional Rage.
Gore - Thrash, Swipe, Faerie Fire, Lacerate and Maul have a 15% chance to reset the cooldown on Mangle, and to cause it to generate an additional 4 Rage.
Mark of the Wild - Increases the friendly target's Versatility by 3% for 1 hour. If target is in your party or raid, all party and raid members will be affected.
Mastery - Nature's Guardian - Increases your maximum health and healing taken by 4.0%. Also increases your attack power by 8.0%.

Unaltered Spells: Growl, Barkskin, Survival Instincts, Incapacitating Roar, Stampeding Roar, Rebirth, Skull Bash, Prowl, Entangling Roots, Regrowth, Dash, Hibernate, Soothe, Remove Corruption, Feline Grace, Feline Swiftness, Nuturing Instinct, Cat Form, Bear Form, Thick Hide, Lightning Reflexes.
----------Talents----------

15
Behemoth - While Pulverize is active, increase your chance to critically strike by 8%.
Blood Frenzy - Thrash generates 2 Rage each time it deals damage, and has a 20% chance to cast twice.
Twisted Thorns - Sharp brambles protect you, absorbing and reflecting up to [10% of Attack Power] damage from each attack. On Use: Bristle your fur, causing you to generate Rage based on damage taken for 8 sec. 45 sec CD.

30
Blood of the Wild God - When in combat, but not in melee range of an enemy, heal 2% of your health per second.
Displacer Beast - Teleports you up to 20 yards forward, activating Cat Form and increasing your movement speed by 50% for 2 sec. If activated while currently in Bear Form, the druid will not change forms. 45 sec CD.
Wild Charge - Grants a movement ability that varies by shapeshift form. 15 sec CD.

45
Balance Affinity - Same
Feral Affinity - Same
Restoration Affinity - Same

60
Ursoc's Might - Invokes the spirit of Ursoc to cause Incapacitating Roar to stun targets for 2 sec. Usable in all shapeshift forms. 30 sec CD.
Mass Entanglement - Your Roots spell is now instant cast and will root the target and all enemies with 15 yards in place for 30 sec. Damage-over-time has a very low chance to break the spell. Usable in all shapeshift forms. Duration is reduced against enemy players. 15 sec CD.
Silent Swarm - Faerie Fire silences the affected target for 3 sec.

75
Soul of the Forest - Mangle generates 4 more Rage and deals 40% more damage.
Faerie Swarm - Casting Thrash has a 50% chance to trigger a free automatic Faerie Fire on your target. When this occurs, the next Faerie Fire you cast generates 10 Rage and deals 200% increased damage.
Incarnation - An improved Bear Form that removes the cooldown on all melee damage abilities and Growl, causes Mangle to hit up to 3 targets, and increases damage and armor by 20%. Lasts 30 sec. You may freely shapeshift in and out of this improved Bear Form for its duration. (Replaces Berserk)

90
Rend and Tear - While in Bear Form, Thrash also increases your damage dealt to the target, and reduces your damage taken from the target by 2% per application of Thrash.
Survival of the Fittest - Reduces the cooldowns of Barkskin and Survival Instincts by 33%.
Guardian of Elune - Mangle increases the duration of your next Ironfur by 2 sec, or the healing of your next Frenzied Regeneration by 20%.

100
Ursol's Roar - Instantly heals you for 30% of maximum health and increase your maximum health by 30% for 12 sec. 3 min CD.
Lunar Beam - Summons a beam of lunar light at your location, dealing [(11% of Attack Power) * 8] Arcane damage and healing you and nearby allies for [(50% of Attack Power) * 8] over 8 sec. 1 min CD.
Bloodlet - Periodic damage from Thrash heals you for 1% of your maximum health.
Those would be some fun changes. Pulverise baseline yes please .
Thank you, I wanted to make it not TOO different, but enough to make bear a fun/effective spec that plays to its strengths and makes you feel like talents are a choice and not a "you're wrong if you picked X"
Some of these are cool, some blatantly overpowered.
09/26/2018 05:42 PMPosted by Prime
Some of these are cool, some blatantly overpowered.


I'm very curious which part(s) you think are overpowered. I tried pretty hard to make it as balanced as I could.... given its MY spec :)
09/26/2018 05:49 PMPosted by Gumble
09/26/2018 05:42 PMPosted by Prime
Some of these are cool, some blatantly overpowered.


I'm very curious which part(s) you think are overpowered. I tried pretty hard to make it as balanced as I could.... given its MY spec :)


Mainly blood of the wild god and bloodlet, that would be way too much healing. Also faerie fire cannot prevent stealth, that was one of the stated reasons for its removal. Also having random proc faerie fire that silences would be crazy, think if gg silenced currently. These abilities need to be balanced for not only raids and dungeons but also pvp.

Overall I like what you've created here, and most of it looks pretty balanced. I really want pulverize baseline.
Blood of the Wild God doesn't work in melee, so its limited in usefulness.

Bloodlet wouldn't be much healing in a raid situation, but would excel more in 5mans, which Bears currently are pretty weak in. I think a healing talent that is strong mostly in an area that bears currently need help can be a bit strong.

The random proc FF, yea I thought that would be fun. Not reliable, but potentially annoying as hell to some caster, somewhere, which made me smile.
Love these suggestions!, opinions on Mark of Ursol?
Hope blizzard does better in 8.1

Mark of Ursol was too strong and its addition and removal were silly. Bears need to work without just a flat 30% magic DR button
I'll say this: I've switched from Blood DK to Guardian Druid for BFA, and I'm pretty nonplussed. It feels pretty boring, just as slow (if not slower at times, figure that out), and like I've gone from a swiss army knife to a spork.

It could use some work to make it more fun.
12% Damage buff is a god samn good start!
Really random thread of mine you picked for that reply, but ok.....

Given Bears are about 20% behind other tanks in damage/threat and have crappy mechanics that make them basically inferior to other tanks for most content.......

....... 12% feels like, not enough
10/27/2018 05:59 PMPosted by Gumble
12% feels like, not enough

It isn't and the inclusion of Ursol's Vortex doesn't make a dent either.
When I first saw that 12% I thought, "They obviously buffed us by only 12% because in a later PTR build they're planning to put Rage of the Sleeper back in, and the damage boost from that is intended to bring us up to par with the other tanks." So far, no RotS :/

I still think one of the easiest ways for Blizzard to make us both quite good and actually desired for content (apart from the obvious stuff like restoring our snare) is to give us Death Grip, call it Twisted Vines or something, and use the vine graphic from those quests where you have to pull a weed out of the ground. Suddenly we're super useful! Death Knights got battle rez, after all.
10/28/2018 02:07 AMPosted by Yime
When I first saw that 12% I thought, "They obviously buffed us by only 12% because in a later PTR build they're planning to put Rage of the Sleeper back in, and the damage boost from that is intended to bring us up to par with the other tanks." So far, no RotS :/

I still think one of the easiest ways for Blizzard to make us both quite good and actually desired for content (apart from the obvious stuff like restoring our snare) is to give us Death Grip, call it Twisted Vines or something, and use the vine graphic from those quests where you have to pull a weed out of the ground. Suddenly we're super useful! Death Knights got battle rez, after all.

[Bear hug].
10/28/2018 02:07 AMPosted by Yime
give us Death Grip

The answer to the problems with Bear isn't to give us Death Grip. We've gone down the tank homogenization route before and in the end we decided that flavor of design wasn't all that interesting or great.

So where does that leave us?

Simply put, the class designers need to step back and actually spend equal time on their tank and healer roles in this game as much as they spend on the dps specs. They need to examine what tanks and healers bring, analyze their strengths and weaknesses, and re-balance those aspects around the current game.

If through this analysis they find that one tank or healer lacks something, rather than duplicate what some other spec has in their toolkit, be creative and design something that can be equally useful, cool, and unique.

After that, the next step is to make sure the other designers who build content take the time to actually design content that gives focus and spotlight on everyone in a way that encourages class diversity rather than a single meta.

It's not easy, but it should be well within Blizzard's scope to do this. They have the tools and data to back up doing this right, all that stops them is themselves.
Doesn't Blood of the Wild God contradict with Balance Affinity? How bout set it to fixed 5 yard?

Thanks for the wonderful suggestion to improve bear tank, i had a good feel for these spells and talent change if they were ever implemented.
I'm confused... have they even said they are addressing Guardian at all?
Rage of the Sleeper is very much missed. It acted as a wonderful Offensive/Defensive on a reasonably low CD.

On the Lacerate suggestion, while Bear absolutely a shake up for their abilities, it'd feel as though it'd be filling a role that Thrash already focuses on. Fairy Fire seems like a suitable replacement to Moonfire (similar role), while baseline Pulverise would be very welcome!

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