I'm done with shield wearing tanks.

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I've been tanking since vanilla on various tanks. While I've strayed from the warrior it's always held a special spot in my heart and have always returned to it. Unfortunately, with the change to forced personal loot, I've been able to get a total of 1 shield since hitting 120. After farming all the shield giving dungeons on mythic (plus some heroic clears) I got a 340. I've been doing Normal Uldir since week one and heroic since week 2. I also do a variety of M+ each week. I am still wearing that 340 shield.

I was wondering why my luck was so bad. Then (when putting my engineering mind to the task) I realized I wasn't having bad luck, that's just how this work now. My raid is roughly 28 people. The only shield wearing main specs are me and a holy paladin. Since it's personal loot, I have to be selected for loot (6 out of 28) on that one specific boss, and then I have to get the specific item out of the boss (1 out of 3) I believe. So my odds of getting a shield are 5%. The odds with master loot, assuming 4 drops instead of 6 would be 36% (11 drop options on the boss so (1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)). That's where my seemingly "bad luck" is coming from. I am 7 times less likely to get a shield in a raid with personal loot instead of group/master loot.

My chances are slightly improved by having that holy paladin in the group, but he has to get one first and then a second to pass to me.

If I switch to a monk, that gives me 3 chances (2x monk tanks + a survival hunter). However if I switch to DK, that gives me 5 chances (1 unholy dk+2 ret pallies+1 fury warrior+1 blood dk). I just wanted to bring to everyone's attention that your raid/group composition directly impacts the odds of you getting specific loot items.
By the time BFA finishes people will come to realize that artifact weapons (and the offhands + shields they automatically gave you) was the best thing that ever happened to WoW game and class design.

Of course the artifact weapon system could have been improved (like AP gains shared between specs) but that doesn't mean you trash the whole system.
I remember back in vanilla our tanks tanked MC as 2h fury because they were in T2-T3 gear
Run war fronts? I main Arms but for some reason was rewarded a 370 shield. I would have gladly traded with a prot spec main if it were possible.
09/27/2018 09:50 AMPosted by Darkestalker
Run war fronts? I main Arms but for some reason was rewarded a 370 shield. I would have gladly traded with a prot spec main if it were possible.


I ran the warfronts. Didn't get shield. And re-running would just be mog since it's 340 for re doing it.
run mythic plus, you can get shields from there
Any form of weapon is going to be frustrating to obtain. This could've partially been avoided if Blizzard would make crafting more useful. WoD partially had it right. It wasn't perfect but you could re-roll stats and you could get gear that at least kept up with Heroic tier raids.

Currently as a smith I can make a Belt and Pants. Both have absurd material requirements and entirely random stats. They're both BOP, can not Warforge or gain tertiary stats. Neither are weapons as well.

As bad as this is, Azerite trait items are even worse. Admittedly, I've been lucky on the Shield front. First G'oon kill got me a Warforged shield to replace my Warforged M0 drop. Keeping armour with Deafening Crash though? That could be a problem. See my armoury for details.
09/27/2018 09:13 AMPosted by Dragonyx
Since it's personal loot, I have to be selected for loot (6 out of 28) on that one specific boss, and then I have to get the specific item out of the boss (1 out of 3) I believe. So my odds of getting a shield are 5%. The odds with master loot, assuming 4 drops instead of 6 would be 36% (11 drop options on the boss so (1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)). That's where my seemingly "bad luck" is coming from. I am 7 times less likely to get a shield in a raid with personal loot instead of group/master loot.


To be clear: that is not how personal loot works. Everyone in the raid has their own individual chance to receive loot, regardless of how many people are there.
09/27/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Lore
09/27/2018 09:13 AMPosted by Dragonyx
Since it's personal loot, I have to be selected for loot (6 out of 28) on that one specific boss, and then I have to get the specific item out of the boss (1 out of 3) I believe. So my odds of getting a shield are 5%. The odds with master loot, assuming 4 drops instead of 6 would be 36% (11 drop options on the boss so (1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)). That's where my seemingly "bad luck" is coming from. I am 7 times less likely to get a shield in a raid with personal loot instead of group/master loot.


To be clear: that is not how personal loot works. Everyone in the raid has their own individual chance to receive loot, regardless of how many people are there.


Yet, I have seen raids of 25 people get just 6 drops per boss, not 4 or 5 or 8. It is a set limit for the raid, not everyone has a change to get a drop, just 6 people in a 25 man raid. So, no it is not personal otherwise you would have bosses sometimes drop maybe 15 pieces.
09/27/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Lore
09/27/2018 09:13 AMPosted by Dragonyx
Since it's personal loot, I have to be selected for loot (6 out of 28) on that one specific boss, and then I have to get the specific item out of the boss (1 out of 3) I believe. So my odds of getting a shield are 5%. The odds with master loot, assuming 4 drops instead of 6 would be 36% (11 drop options on the boss so (1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)). That's where my seemingly "bad luck" is coming from. I am 7 times less likely to get a shield in a raid with personal loot instead of group/master loot.


To be clear: that is not how personal loot works. Everyone in the raid has their own individual chance to receive loot, regardless of how many people are there.


But is his math wrong in the end? Do you have any other comments to add on the topic?

This is just one example of MANY as to why forced personal loot for guilds is a horrible change.
With how artifacts worked I had hoped they would have made combos drop. Sword/shield, Caster 1H/offhand.

09/27/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Lore
09/27/2018 09:13 AMPosted by Dragonyx
Since it's personal loot, I have to be selected for loot (6 out of 28) on that one specific boss, and then I have to get the specific item out of the boss (1 out of 3) I believe. So my odds of getting a shield are 5%. The odds with master loot, assuming 4 drops instead of 6 would be 36% (11 drop options on the boss so (1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)). That's where my seemingly "bad luck" is coming from. I am 7 times less likely to get a shield in a raid with personal loot instead of group/master loot.


To be clear: that is not how personal loot works. Everyone in the raid has their own individual chance to receive loot, regardless of how many people are there.


09/27/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Lore
09/27/2018 09:13 AMPosted by Dragonyx
Since it's personal loot, I have to be selected for loot (6 out of 28) on that one specific boss, and then I have to get the specific item out of the boss (1 out of 3) I believe. So my odds of getting a shield are 5%. The odds with master loot, assuming 4 drops instead of 6 would be 36% (11 drop options on the boss so (1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)). That's where my seemingly "bad luck" is coming from. I am 7 times less likely to get a shield in a raid with personal loot instead of group/master loot.


To be clear: that is not how personal loot works. Everyone in the raid has their own individual chance to receive loot, regardless of how many people are there.


Sorry for the cynicism, but I find this very hard to believe. This would lead one to believe they are the unluckiest person ever. The only reason I have raid gear is because I have been given it. In 2 weeks in Uldir I have looted 1 item and it wasnt an upgrade.
09/27/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Lore
09/27/2018 09:13 AMPosted by Dragonyx
Since it's personal loot, I have to be selected for loot (6 out of 28) on that one specific boss, and then I have to get the specific item out of the boss (1 out of 3) I believe. So my odds of getting a shield are 5%. The odds with master loot, assuming 4 drops instead of 6 would be 36% (11 drop options on the boss so (1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)). That's where my seemingly "bad luck" is coming from. I am 7 times less likely to get a shield in a raid with personal loot instead of group/master loot.


To be clear: that is not how personal loot works. Everyone in the raid has their own individual chance to receive loot, regardless of how many people are there.


He's talking about the ability to trade that loot to another player. You missed his point entirely.

The amount of drops should increase based on the amount of classes that can use that item in raid loot...if personal loot is here to stay.

There should be 2x as many shield drops in raids as 2handers. Almost every boss should give the chance to drop a shield or fist weapon.
Exactly... The fact that you cannot trade an item just because it has higher ilvl than yours is horrible. Ilvl isn't everything that matters. If I drop an item that has worse stats for me but bis for my friend I can't give it to him just because it's 5 ilvl higher than item I wear.
09/27/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Lore
09/27/2018 09:13 AMPosted by Dragonyx
Since it's personal loot, I have to be selected for loot (6 out of 28) on that one specific boss, and then I have to get the specific item out of the boss (1 out of 3) I believe. So my odds of getting a shield are 5%. The odds with master loot, assuming 4 drops instead of 6 would be 36% (11 drop options on the boss so (1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)). That's where my seemingly "bad luck" is coming from. I am 7 times less likely to get a shield in a raid with personal loot instead of group/master loot.


To be clear: that is not how personal loot works. Everyone in the raid has their own individual chance to receive loot, regardless of how many people are there.


Can you please stop defending bad design choices? Just admit that forced personal loot is a massive failure already.
09/27/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Lore
09/27/2018 09:13 AMPosted by Dragonyx
Since it's personal loot, I have to be selected for loot (6 out of 28) on that one specific boss, and then I have to get the specific item out of the boss (1 out of 3) I believe. So my odds of getting a shield are 5%. The odds with master loot, assuming 4 drops instead of 6 would be 36% (11 drop options on the boss so (1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)+(1/11)). That's where my seemingly "bad luck" is coming from. I am 7 times less likely to get a shield in a raid with personal loot instead of group/master loot.


To be clear: that is not how personal loot works. Everyone in the raid has their own individual chance to receive loot, regardless of how many people are there.


Perhaps he was speaking on the fact that more people in his raid would be able to trade a specific item slot to him where as with him being a shield wearer only the paladin can? I didn't understand it as he was saying it would improve his chance to get HIS loot drop from personal but rather because so many other people would be using that slot the chance someone can trade him that specific slot is much greater when compared to only having one person for the shield ( the paladin he mentioned).
09/27/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Lore
To be clear: that is not how personal loot works. Everyone in the raid has their own individual chance to receive loot, regardless of how many people are there.


If that was the case it would be possible to have 10+ people getting loot off one boss sometimes, and on the other end it would be possible to get no items sometimes. What you said is actually just patently false.
09/27/2018 12:24 PMPosted by Lore
To be clear: that is not how personal loot works. Everyone in the raid has their own individual chance to receive loot, regardless of how many people are there

You should really check with the devs on that. I'm pretty sure there is an item drop limit. Such that no more than N items would drop from any given boss. Just saying that statement seems flat out wrong.
09/27/2018 09:21 AMPosted by Valkür
By the time BFA finishes people will come to realize that artifact weapons (and the offhands + shields they automatically gave you) was the best thing that ever happened to WoW game and class design.


Except grinding 3 BiS artifact gems was totally so much more fun

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