Anyone feel that their DPS is falling off?

Hunter
Mostly BM hunters, but do you guys feel like your DPS is falling off compared to the rest of your raid/party group as you guys gear up? Feels like I was doing well even after the 5% nerf but as we cleared and got more gear, my DPS just isn't scaling up to par compared to like warriors, warlocks, DH and rogues. Not sure if it's just me or I'm itemizing wrong. Just kind of worried that BM is going to fall off in 8.1 and I currently love playing this spec.
It's not just you. I'm feeling it too as MM.
So hunters in general dying off. Though I have heard survival is great but I prefer to be ranged.
See as other classes are getting buff and hunters are just getting nerfed sooner or later its going to catch up. Right now bm is good in aoe myth plus. Our raiding dps is ok mid level. Our pvp is below mid tier we have little dmg. Thus the rise of sv has become a thing and from what we have seen sv is better raider then bm and decent in myth plus and amazing in pvp. Sv 100% will get nerfed. Once that happens hunter will have no spect that is high tier worthy.
10/04/2018 12:28 PMPosted by Aleiah
It's not just you. I'm feeling it too as MM.


We have a specific build we need to be competitive. You don't have any of the azerite traits for that build.
10/04/2018 12:38 PMPosted by Gunshy
10/04/2018 12:28 PMPosted by Aleiah
It's not just you. I'm feeling it too as MM.


We have a specific build we need to be competitive. You don't have any of the azerite traits for that build.
pvp wise, the best burst build for all hunter spect is mm with true shot trait that will put you over 100% crit, if you are decently geared and time the combo right you can full combo a healer from full to dead.
Bm also scales very very poorly. as more people get gear an higher ilvl they will progress more than hunters. the only hunter spec that scales very well with gear is marksman but the gear with best traits is locked behind a once a week time gate of rng fest from mythic 10 chest and the only piece with it that can be 385 from uldir is the chest off. rest of the ilvl azerite gear with steady aim is all 340 with helm being 370 if you got mega lucky off warfronts.
Hunters never scale particularly well. That's why aspect of the hawk was constantly buffed, back before the great pruning.
I feel fine and competitive.

I feel bad when I mess up in a raid and I grey parse cuz I died like on my mythic mother kill. Aside from me messing up BM is fine in terms of dps. I'm always top 5 in my guild.

If you grey parse every fight of course you will feel weaker. Put up some purple and orange parses I bet you will be top 5 in your guild also.
10/04/2018 12:45 PMPosted by Tassili
Bm also scales very very poorly. as more people get gear an higher ilvl they will progress more than hunters. the only hunter spec that scales very well with gear is marksman but the gear with best traits is locked behind a once a week time gate of rng fest from mythic 10 chest and the only piece with it that can be 385 from uldir is the chest off. rest of the ilvl azerite gear with steady aim is all 340 with helm being 370 if you got mega lucky off warfronts.


I keep hearing people say this but now that all abilities are based off of attack power and not weapon damage, isn't this statement no longer true? I know MM scaled better in legion because their weapon dps increased the damage on their skills but that shouldn't be the case anymore in BFA.
10/04/2018 12:45 PMPosted by Tassili
Bm also scales very very poorly. as more people get gear an higher ilvl they will progress more than hunters. the only hunter spec that scales very well with gear is marksman but the gear with best traits is locked behind a once a week time gate of rng fest from mythic 10 chest and the only piece with it that can be 385 from uldir is the chest off. rest of the ilvl azerite gear with steady aim is all 340 with helm being 370 if you got mega lucky off warfronts.


I keep hearing people say this but now that all abilities are based off of attack power and not weapon damage, isn't this statement no longer true? I know MM scaled better in legion because their weapon dps increased the damage on their skills but that shouldn't be the case anymore in BFA.


All non-caster abilities now use both weapon damage and attack power.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=281913/battle-for-azeroth-new-formula-for-calculating-ability-damage
...

I keep hearing people say this but now that all abilities are based off of attack power and not weapon damage, isn't this statement no longer true? I know MM scaled better in legion because their weapon dps increased the damage on their skills but that shouldn't be the case anymore in BFA.


All non-caster abilities now use both weapon damage and attack power.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=281913/battle-for-azeroth-new-formula-for-calculating-ability-damage


Again, that means that we're all getting benefits from both weapon damage and AP, unlike legion where BM was all AP. I still don't get how this makes us scale less efficiently.
10/04/2018 02:53 PMPosted by Blodwyn
...

All non-caster abilities now use both weapon damage and attack power.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=281913/battle-for-azeroth-new-formula-for-calculating-ability-damage


Again, that means that we're all getting benefits from both weapon damage and AP, unlike legion where BM was all AP. I still don't get how this makes us scale less efficiently.


We did NOT scale in Legion, this was known by all, last 3 tiers of Legion show that. Infact in Legion the only way for BM to do good was to have 3 serrated jaw relics that also had the 3 aoe traits, then you were good.

The Scaling was changed in prepatch to fix all of this.

I think we will scale, maybe less than others but who knows for sure yet all I know is I'm scaling fine as I'm still top 5 in my guild for dps.

My logs show that as well look at my old parses vs new parses, I'm always higher and higher.

Please dont look at my mythic mother kill though, I dun goof'd!!
10/04/2018 12:21 PMPosted by Videre
Mostly BM hunters, but do you guys feel like your DPS is falling off compared to the rest of your raid/party group as you guys gear up? Feels like I was doing well even after the 5% nerf but as we cleared and got more gear, my DPS just isn't scaling up to par compared to like warriors, warlocks, DH and rogues. Not sure if it's just me or I'm itemizing wrong. Just kind of worried that BM is going to fall off in 8.1 and I currently love playing this spec.


Yeah dude i'm feeling the same way.. it seems like the higher ilvl i get my dps is just dropping.
As far as scaling I got 3 upgrades tonight. My skimmed fps went from 13,845 to 15,114. A 1300 fps jump does not happen if you dont scale. (Note no azerite traits changed.)
10/04/2018 08:17 PMPosted by Ruzaki
As far as scaling I got 3 upgrades tonight. My skimmed fps went from 13,845 to 15,114. A 1300 fps jump does not happen if you dont scale. (Note no azerite traits changed.)
ts not that we dont scale, its that we dont scale as well as other classes. thats prob why you are feeling you are falling behind in dps vs your guildies of other classes, a 380 hunter played by someone from method will prob lose to a 380 warlock/mage/rogue played by someone of = skill. while a 300 ilvl hunter will prob beat out a 300 ilvl warlock/mage/rogue or whatever top class is at the time, bm is better at lower ilvls than most other classes. due to stats and break points of cast times.
10/04/2018 12:45 PMPosted by Tassili
Bm also scales very very poorly.


10/04/2018 12:46 PMPosted by Zakx
Hunters never scale particularly well.


BM doesn't scale well on last expansion coz most BM Hunters used high ilevel relics with crappy traits. Their relics buffs something else not the pet. They thought high ilevel weapon means high DPS. This is true with MM. On BM it is not as BM's weapon is their PET.

My DPS scale well as I scrapped all relics that doesn't have both Jaws of Thunder and Furious Swipes on Netherlight Crucible... ending up with me +7 Jaws of Thunder and +7 Furious Swipes. Most BM Hunters just have the default +3 Jaws of Thunder and +3 Furious Swipes coz they used different relics. I had low ilevel weapon but I maintained my important relic traits. I was just casual and I beat Ahead of the Curve Antorus and +15 Mythic. I was good on both ST and AoE and I outdps'd most classes including MM and other BM of the same ilevel on both ST and AoE.

The same would happen in BFA if high ilevel BM Hunters chooses high ilevel Helm, SHoulders and Chest but with crappy Azerite traits.
10/04/2018 12:37 PMPosted by Faceslap
See as other classes are getting buff and hunters are just getting nerfed sooner or later its going to catch up. Right now bm is good in aoe myth plus. Our raiding dps is ok mid level. Our pvp is below mid tier we have little dmg. Thus the rise of sv has become a thing and from what we have seen sv is better raider then bm and decent in myth plus and amazing in pvp. Sv 100% will get nerfed. Once that happens hunter will have no spect that is high tier worthy.
they wont do that. Bms has been nerfed like 4 times and mm is apparently falling on deaf ears to blizz. They want people to play survival
From what us players can see BM is scaling poorly.

Heroic 350 iLvL
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#difficulty=4&dataset=90&bracket=4

Heroic 360 iLvL
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#difficulty=4&dataset=90&bracket=7

Heroic 370 iLvL
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#difficulty=4&dataset=90&bracket=11

Heroic 378 iLvL (highest for which there is a meaningful data set)
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#difficulty=4&dataset=90&bracket=13

As the iLvL goes up, BM drops from top of the pack to bottom 1/2. At this rate (without changes) by iLvL 400 or so (so next raid normal difficulty gear), BM will probably be in the bottom 6 or 7. Specs below that are either also scaling poorly (Frost Mage, Shadow Priest) or are just broken (MM, Ele, Demo)

At least that's how I interpret it. Blizzard may see it differently, as I'm sure they have much better tools to work with than Warcraftlogs.

Whether or not Blizzard is OK with that is a separate question.

**EDIT** So both Hunter ranged specs are heading for the dumpster. Hunter Melee spec doing just dandy. Anyone else sensing a theme in this xpac?
10/05/2018 10:24 AMPosted by Jhannae
10/04/2018 12:45 PMPosted by Tassili
Bm also scales very very poorly.


10/04/2018 12:46 PMPosted by Zakx
Hunters never scale particularly well.


BM doesn't scale well on last expansion coz most BM Hunters used high ilevel relics with crappy traits. Their relics buffs something else not the pet. They thought high ilevel weapon means high DPS. This is true with MM. On BM it is not as BM's weapon is their PET.

My DPS scale well as I scrapped all relics that doesn't have both Jaws of Thunder and Furious Swipes on Netherlight Crucible... ending up with me +7 Jaws of Thunder and +7 Furious Swipes. Most BM Hunters just have the default +3 Jaws of Thunder and +3 Furious Swipes coz they used different relics. I had low ilevel weapon but I maintained my important relic traits. I was just casual and I beat Ahead of the Curve Antorus and +15 Mythic. I was good on both ST and AoE and I outdps'd most classes including MM and other BM of the same ilevel on both ST and AoE.

The same would happen in BFA if high ilevel BM Hunters chooses high ilevel Helm, SHoulders and Chest but with crappy Azerite traits.


Well like what was already mentioned the weapon scaling was fixed for BM.

Also for the azerite items ilvl is currently better than anything.

Just because agility is such a high stat weight now, I'm sure if you sim yourself agility is your highest stat weight AFTER weapon damage, which in Legion weapon damage meant nothing but now for instance my stat weights are weapon dps is 6.50 and agility is 2.3 that's how high weapon ilvl matters now.

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