About Alliance victory (8.1 spoilers)

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09/29/2018 04:18 AMPosted by Vespero
I have zero problem with the Forsaken reviving human corpses. It's literally the only way to propagate their race. To expect them not to do that is asking them to accept their own extinction. Asking a race to simply lay down and die doesn't seem very morally upright to me.
Sure, it's wrong to ask the Forsaken to lay down and die. But it's totally fine for the Forsaken to tell us to lay down and die so they can thrive.

Edit: This isn't me asking for the currently active Forsaken to just die, btw.
The datamined text makes it sound like the horde is about to lose the entire war.
The horde is also on the brink of civil war. AGAIN
The alliance not achieving the win they desire is probobly a whole lot better than constantly engaging in civil warfare or wondering which racial leader dies or vanishes from the story next.
09/29/2018 03:58 PMPosted by Granfaloon
The datamined text makes it sound like the horde is about to lose the entire war.
The horde is also on the brink of civil war. AGAIN
The alliance not achieving the win they desire is probobly a whole lot better than constantly engaging in civil warfare or wondering which racial leader dies or vanishes from the story next.
At this point, even if the Horde actually gets into a position where they can do nothing but lose, the Alliance is in a position where they won't act on it. It's infuriating.
09/29/2018 04:03 PMPosted by Grandblade
At this point, even if the Horde actually gets into a position where they can do nothing but lose, the Alliance is in a position where they won't act on it. It's infuriating.

like always.

if things happens as datamined dialogue suggest, this is a complete victory for the alliance because if even if the main objetive of the attack was to drive out the zandalari of the horde.

The main objective of the WAR is gaining naval superiority.
leaving us the main true and final objetive:kill or capture sylvanas.
assuming of course that anduin as a working brain.
09/29/2018 04:03 PMPosted by Grandblade
09/29/2018 03:58 PMPosted by Granfaloon
The datamined text makes it sound like the horde is about to lose the entire war.
The horde is also on the brink of civil war. AGAIN
The alliance not achieving the win they desire is probobly a whole lot better than constantly engaging in civil warfare or wondering which racial leader dies or vanishes from the story next.
At this point, even if the Horde actually gets into a position where they can do nothing but lose, the Alliance is in a position where they won't act on it. It's infuriating.

At least your leaders arnt tripping over themselves trying to kill each other. Even Genn is acting remarkably reasonable. And jaina is almost back to normal.
09/29/2018 04:38 PMPosted by Granfaloon
09/29/2018 04:03 PMPosted by Grandblade
... At this point, even if the Horde actually gets into a position where they can do nothing but lose, the Alliance is in a position where they won't act on it. It's infuriating.

At least your leaders arnt tripping over themselves trying to kill each other. Even Genn is acting remarkably reasonable. And jaina is almost back to normal.
See? Nobody's happy, we're all stewing in one big pot roast of frustration and faction disappointment.
09/28/2018 02:11 PMPosted by Phlynch
Horde players say Alliance players can turn any victory into a loss, that we'll never be happy no matter how much we win.

That's not true, our definition of winning is just different from yours. You want to kill us, we want everyone to stop killing everyone.

In the Zuldazar raid, the Alliance kills Rastakhan and retreats without casualties. If the Horde did this that would be a victory, because you got to make someone dead.

For the Alliance however, this does nothing to further our goals. Talaji is going to want to avenge her father, now she hates the Alliance. Meanwhile Sylvanas isn't hurt in the slightest. Rather than remove an obstacle to peace, we've just made a new one. We gain nothing but enemies here.

The Alliance isn't turning wins into losses. We just don't consider pointless murder winning.


That line of baloney only works if you actually apply it consistently to both factions. It doesn't matter whether the Horde consider something they did to be a victory if it wouldn't be a victory by your standards. Which means that material like Teldrassil shouldn't be considered a Horde victory according to you and that's manifestly not the case.

No, I laid it out before and I'll lay it out again. To most Alliance posters, something is a Horde victory if the Horde managed to accomplish anything, keep the Alliance from accomplishing even thing, inflict any losses whatsoever on the Alliance, etc. And it's an Alliance victory only if the Horde accomplished nothing, the Alliance achieved all their objectives, and the Alliance suffered no losses. It also can't be an Alliance victory if the status quo is maintained, even if all the above criteria are met because defensive victories (by the Alliance) aren't real victories to these posters since nothing actually changed in their favor.

09/28/2018 08:04 PMPosted by Cláw
09/28/2018 07:56 PMPosted by Byniri
I don't know how anyone can claim this isn't a major Alliance victory:

They kill Rastakhan, raze/loot Dazar'alor (to the point where Talanji says they're savages for how much they destroy and pillage the city), wreck the Zandalari navy, and only take some losses while they're leaving. Heck Mekkatorque survives the attack, and the Alliance literally calls it a 'victory' and praises the Kul'tiran forces for how they fought.

How is that not a win?


I want something on par with the horde raising our dead to fight against us.


So. . . something meaningless in every sense of the word? How is that any kind of harm to you? They were dead, removed from the world as far as you were concerned. The only significance it can reasonably have to you is that the opposing side is making themselves just a little bit stronger, but at zero further cost to you.

09/29/2018 12:15 AMPosted by Seiryu
09/28/2018 11:51 PMPosted by Treng
... As opposed to what end?

You take Zandalar? Kill all Zandalari? Kill the Horde?

What are you wanting here?

Ironically he wants to be the Horde.


There's always been a strong element of that in faction-focused complaints and demands on here, both from unknowns and from major regular posters like Seebach and Cobble. It's why I've always said their real problem with characters like Sylvanas is that she's not doing all her shenanigans on their side. The way they praised similar characters (like Darion in Wrath and then Bolvar) further demonstrated this.

09/29/2018 12:54 AMPosted by Savanovic

09/29/2018 12:54 AMPosted by Feldaran
the Horde isn’t full of prolific !@#$posters who comment in every thread about how the Horde should be completely exterminated.


Is this a joke? I see this a lot. Have you visited General Discussion?


Why would or should I care about the trash over on GD? I don't care about what trash gets written on Reddit, or in a random person's ranty blog either. That's a different community.
t's why I've always said their real problem with characters like Sylvanas is that she's not doing all her shenanigans on their side.


I'm sorry to tell you how wrong you still are about pretty much everything.
The horde doesn't want to kill everyone. It'd just be nice if we had some of our leaders who have been killed off replaced with anyone who mattered. Likewise, it would be nice if once in awhile one of the Alliance leaders would die without coming back with superpowers or being immediately replaced with someone with superpowers.

Really I'd be way more interested in bringing more races into the Horde and building up the Horde's infrastructure over having anything AT ALL to do with the Alliance. Which is kind of why 'Kalimdor for the Horde' sounded like a great idea on paper and then we got to the execution and it's just been a terrible mess.
10/14/2018 09:59 PMPosted by Mustakraken
The horde doesn't want to kill everyone. It'd just be nice if we had some of our leaders who have been killed off replaced with anyone who mattered. Likewise, it would be nice if once in awhile one of the Alliance leaders would die without coming back with superpowers or being immediately replaced with someone with superpowers.

Really I'd be way more interested in bringing more races into the Horde and building up the Horde's infrastructure over having anything AT ALL to do with the Alliance. Which is kind of why 'Kalimdor for the Horde' sounded like a great idea on paper and then we got to the execution and it's just been a terrible mess.


I mean Teldrassil.
Numerous alliance towns and cities.
In Darkshore the Horde is gassing ruins, has Night Elf deathcamps.
They use prisoners as target practice...
I mean I could go on.

What does the Horde want anyway?
What is the end goal? Enslaving the world?
Or Co-existence? That's pretty doubtful since this is the second time the Horde has attacked its neighbors.

Not blaming anyone besides the writers but I just can't understand Horde players who care about lore but ignore so many blatant facts that paint the horde like slaving genocidal maniacs.
10/14/2018 10:20 PMPosted by Lithya
I mean Teldrassil.
Numerous alliance towns and cities.
In Darkshore the Horde is gassing ruins, has Night Elf deathcamps.
They use prisoners as target practice...
I mean I could go on.
The Arthas parallels were already apparent, but the Garrosh parallels are bashing us in the face at this point.

... I miss him.
10/15/2018 12:07 AMPosted by Grandblade
10/14/2018 10:20 PMPosted by Lithya
I mean Teldrassil.
Numerous alliance towns and cities.
In Darkshore the Horde is gassing ruins, has Night Elf deathcamps.
They use prisoners as target practice...
I mean I could go on.
The Arthas parallels were already apparent, but the Garrosh parallels are bashing us in the face at this point.

... I miss him.


As much as I have issue with BfA, you cannot get me drunk enough to long for MoP Garrosh.

Remember that time he critiqued Thrall for allowing Warlock magic in Org while standing under the heart of a Eldritch Horror?

Pepperridge farm remembers.
10/15/2018 12:10 AMPosted by Darethy
As much as I have issue with BfA, you cannot get me drunk enough to long for MoP Garrosh.

Remember that time he critiqued Thrall for allowing Warlock magic in Org while standing under the heart of a Eldritch Horror?

Pepperridge farm remembers.
MoP Garrosh can go to hell.

Cataclysm Garrosh was promising. Shoulda stuck with him. But that's been said a thousand times before.
I remember reading the Shattering and being like "Oh man, he's just a misunderstood hero. I don't know why people hate him so much."

Then MoP happened.
10/15/2018 12:19 AMPosted by Darethy
I remember reading the Shattering and being like "Oh man, he's just a misunderstood hero. I don't know why people hate him so much."

Then MoP happened.
I think people had become so accustomed to the soft-spoken Warchief Thrall, that when they clicked on Garrosh and heard him spouting aggressively firm on-clicks, they got frightened.

"YOU WILL SERVE THE HORDE, OR BE CRUSHED BENEATH IT."

I mean, that's harsh, but the man's patriotic. Can't deny that.
10/15/2018 12:32 AMPosted by Grandblade
10/15/2018 12:19 AMPosted by Darethy
I remember reading the Shattering and being like "Oh man, he's just a misunderstood hero. I don't know why people hate him so much."

Then MoP happened.
I think people had become so accustomed to the soft-spoken Warchief Thrall, that when they clicked on Garrosh and heard him spouting aggressively firm on-clicks, they got frightened.

"YOU WILL SERVE THE HORDE, OR BE CRUSHED BENEATH IT."

I mean, that's harsh, but the man's patriotic. Can't deny that.


Harsh but patriotic was pretty much all I was about. Even given Windrunner and Garrosh's rocky relationship, I considered it just politics and the fighting the Forsaken had to do was the price of good graces after Wrathgate.

One of my favorite parts of Edge of Night was the fact that many of the other Forsaken felt the same. Slamming their weapons against their shields and cheering for the Horde, Garrosh was of course going to lead us to our death, but I found it oddly...heartwarming?

The idea that the undead could not just fight beside the Orcs but actually admire them welded a deep sense of bonding with the Horde when I started leveling years back.

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