The 3 issues with communication beginning now.

General Discussion
With the major backlash to the recent communication by lore, I thought i might post my feelings of why it happened, and I believe there are three main reasons.

1) Beginning communication is a negative feed back loop, until it isn't.

What do I mean? I mean, the more you communicate now, the more you will see posts that go "Why wasn't this addressed in beta/alpha/ptr/ect." Once you get through all those requests however, it then becomes a positive feedback loop, The more you communicate, the easier it will be.

The more you communicate, the less reason people have of being mad that they are being ignored. The less reason people have of assuming your reasoning. The less reason people have of assuming your feelings. The less times people miss-interpret the data-mines. You see where I'[m going?

Can we make this easier? Yes. But, that doesn't mean blizzard is free of responsibility.

2) My Precious Campaign Syndrome

I play D&D, and this is very prevalent with new and old campaign makers alike. They spend time sitting in a room, with others or not, and believe they have made the perfect system. Only to be upset when the players either break it entirely, don't use it as much, or don't find it to be that good.

The same, seemingly, is applying here. The thing is, this ties into the current communication issue. I don't know if this is whats happening at blizzard. But from what I've seen, it seems likely. We told them azerite wasn't great. They went ahead with the system. We said the weekly mythic+ chest needs guaranteed azerite if it doesn't drop at the end of M+ chests. They didn't implement the system.

Now, sometimes, the developers are right. (That's why they are developers and we aren't, after all). And, when they are right, then its great. The players are pleasantly surprised and then we all go on our marry way. But, when they are wrong, that's when things start to go down hill. You either lose trust in your fan base, they quit, or both.

3) Wow is a game, that has a thousand different ways to play it. And each way to play it has its own different issues.

This is, in my opinion, the biggest issue. There are people that just transmog farm. Or mount farm. Or pet farm. You have people that only do LFR, people that raid in Method, and everyone in between. And similar for pvp, you have people that do random battlegrounds, and people that compete in Esports.

The issue arises when the developers and the players are playing different games.

With Lore's response specifically (Sorry, not trying to pick on you Lore, your just the most recent example I can think of), someone said that he is currently not pushing mythic raiding.

That completely explains why he doesn't believe that, say, it would be faster to level up a character of the same class to get azerite gear than to wait for it to drop. Because, when you aren't pushing mythic, you don't need every advantage you can get.

However, if i was pushing mythic, and wanted to play all my specs on mythic level, I would need 6-7 sets, maybe more. Those 7 sets would take 3 weeks to drop, assuming i get perfect loot and can clear up to Mythic Zul.

Therefore, it honestly might be faster to level up another character of the same class to get 2, 3, maybe 4 chances of heroic azerite gear. instead of the 1 I would get without that.

There are other similar issues as well. Back in legion we saw the amount of people come out of the shadows that could no longer clear old raids due to scaling issues. And I'm sure there are more examples of this that I'm just forgetting.

Now, some of these problems we can, at least, help mitigate as players. But blizzard, I honestly think you should keep these in mind as well when posting, to avoid things like what happened with Lore's post, where mythic raiders were frustrated that he didn't see the issue of the azerite system, because Lore just isn't exposed to those issues.
The chronic whiners deserve to be talked down to

They do nothing but over exaggerate everything
10/02/2018 06:48 AMPosted by Taurencal
2) My Precious Campaign Syndrome


Except its a video game. A DM has the ability to shift things around on a whim, but not a game developer.
"We realize we have done a poor job of communicating and resolve to be more responsive in the future." - Blizzard motto since 2013
The problem with communication is that blizzard doesn't listen. Whenever they do communicate, it's an absolute dumpster fire because it's just them talking about features that the playaerbase DETESTS.
didnt read lol

players have no input so it's no surprise there's no communication on anything more than the most superficial elements
I think the playerbase has a really messed up definition of communication.

You don't want Blizzard to communicate.

You want Blizzard to say "Yes, we will do everything you demanded"

There is a ton of evidence Blizzard communicates regularly. Why are people still mad? Its because those communications is not Blizzard giving in to every whim of the playerbase.
What major backlash?

People that were being d bags got called for it. People that look for things to get offended over got offended by it even if they weren't being called d bags.

I'm not seeing backlash just a bunch of forum spam from a small handful of people.
Communication has begun?

This is news, last I checked it was the stock standard "aww that's too bad about that azerite armour thing you guys" and CM's being precious over the job they are doing and calling the entire WoW community a bunch of dikbags, you know... like this one here.

https://twitter.com/devolore/status/1045786554772250625
10/02/2018 07:07 AMPosted by Donrak
Communication has begun?

This is news, last I checked it was the stock standard "aww that's too bad about that azerite armour thing you guys" and CM's being precious over the job they are doing and calling the entire WoW community a bunch of dikbags, you know... like this one here.

https://twitter.com/devolore/status/1045786554772250625


He didn't call the entire wow community a bunch of dikbags. He didn't even call a large portion of the wow communities dikbags.

If you think he was calling you a dikbag, maybe you should watch out for your idiotic ramblings on twitter, along with less garbage spewing.
As any therapist will tell you the key to a healthy relationship is communication.
10/02/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Akston
I think the playerbase has a really messed up definition of communication.

You don't want Blizzard to communicate.

You want Blizzard to say "Yes, we will do everything you demanded"

There is a ton of evidence Blizzard communicates regularly. Why are people still mad? Its because those communications is not Blizzard giving in to every whim of the playerbase.


True, of course people will be mad if blizzard doesn't tell them what they want to hear. But when so much of the playerbase is complaining about the same things, how could they not listen? They truly think they can tell the playerbase how to play the game and what they enjoy. There's a balance to be made, between not giving in to every demand but still listening to feedback and giving into the players.
The chronic whiners deserve to be talked down to

They do nothing but over exaggerate everything


Ironic
10/02/2018 07:09 AMPosted by Mahomie
10/02/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Akston
I think the playerbase has a really messed up definition of communication.

You don't want Blizzard to communicate.

You want Blizzard to say "Yes, we will do everything you demanded"

There is a ton of evidence Blizzard communicates regularly. Why are people still mad? Its because those communications is not Blizzard giving in to every whim of the playerbase.


True, of course people will be mad if blizzard doesn't tell them what they want to hear. But when so much of the playerbase is complaining about the same things, how could they not listen? They truly think they can tell the playerbase how to play the game and what they enjoy. There's a balance to be made, between not giving in to every demand but still listening to feedback and giving into the players.


So what happens when players give opposing feedback?

Or unrealistic feedback (example, "omg scrap the entire azerite system!!")?
10/02/2018 06:58 AMPosted by Glumrot
The chronic whiners deserve to be talked down to

They do nothing but over exaggerate everything


That seems like an over-exaggeration.

edit: somebody beat me to it!
10/02/2018 07:11 AMPosted by Briselody
10/02/2018 06:58 AMPosted by Glumrot
The chronic whiners deserve to be talked down to

They do nothing but over exaggerate everything


That seems like an over-exaggeration.

edit: somebody beat me to it!


Well lets see. In this thread alone..

We have people saying WoW devs never communicate...over-exaggeration.

We have people saying WoW devs never listen to feed back...over-exaggeration.

We have people saying that Lore called the entire WoW community various names...over-exaggeration.
10/02/2018 07:00 AMPosted by Mvura
10/02/2018 06:48 AMPosted by Taurencal
2) My Precious Campaign Syndrome


Except its a video game. A DM has the ability to shift things around on a whim, but not a game developer.


Correct, a developer can not change things on a fly, a game developer however can listen to customer complaints and change the design around that. They are not the same, but that is where i have encountered this feeling the most, and so I drew a parallel.

10/02/2018 06:58 AMPosted by Glumrot
The chronic whiners deserve to be talked down to

They do nothing but over exaggerate everything


Do you play thier game? My guess is you don't. See number 3.

10/02/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Akston
I think the playerbase has a really messed up definition of communication.

You don't want Blizzard to communicate.

You want Blizzard to say "Yes, we will do everything you demanded"

There is a ton of evidence Blizzard communicates regularly. Why are people still mad? Its because those communications is not Blizzard giving in to every whim of the playerbase.


10/02/2018 06:48 AMPosted by Taurencal
Now, sometimes, the developers are right. (That's why they are developers and we aren't, after all). And, when they are right, then its great. The players are pleasantly surprised and then we all go on our marry way


^ literally in the OP. Please read it completely.

10/02/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Akston
There is a ton of evidence Blizzard communicates regularly


Tell me, how did blizzard "communicate reguarly" in legion? Dev Q&As?....And....?

Notice how the title says "communication beginning now."

Over the past few weeks, they have attempted to communicate more. Whether or not its been a good decision/good communication is up to personal opinion.
The communication problem is that blizzard rarely communicates meaningful information that isn’t “this is upcoming in the next patch/future,” and when they do, they admit their communication was bad and they will do better and then they don’t do better. This has been going on for years.

A class like shaman is damn near pure trash right now at least in most pve and there is no real honest communication about it. It’s not like they’re a bit weak and just need some buffs, they are garbage tier and need massive buffs and why they would ever come out this way should be explained.
10/02/2018 07:15 AMPosted by Taurencal
10/02/2018 07:00 AMPosted by Mvura
...

Except its a video game. A DM has the ability to shift things around on a whim, but not a game developer.


Correct, a developer can not change things on a fly, a game developer however can listen to customer complaints and change the design around that. They are not the same, but that is where i have encountered this feeling the most, and so I drew a parallel.

10/02/2018 06:58 AMPosted by Glumrot
The chronic whiners deserve to be talked down to

They do nothing but over exaggerate everything


Do you play thier game? My guess is you don't. See number 3.

10/02/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Akston
I think the playerbase has a really messed up definition of communication.

You don't want Blizzard to communicate.

You want Blizzard to say "Yes, we will do everything you demanded"

There is a ton of evidence Blizzard communicates regularly. Why are people still mad? Its because those communications is not Blizzard giving in to every whim of the playerbase.


10/02/2018 06:48 AMPosted by Taurencal
Now, sometimes, the developers are right. (That's why they are developers and we aren't, after all). And, when they are right, then its great. The players are pleasantly surprised and then we all go on our marry way


^ literally in the OP. Please read it completely.

10/02/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Akston
There is a ton of evidence Blizzard communicates regularly


Tell me, how did blizzard "communicate reguarly" in legion? Dev Q&As?....And....?

Notice how the title says "communication beginning now."

Over the past few weeks, they have attempted to communicate more. Whether or not its been a good decision/good communication is up to personal opinion.


See, this is where I think the playerbase has a drastically different view of what counts as Blizzard communication.

Blue posts count as Blizzard communication. While the more regular QnAs (which started during Legion) are typically what is referred to, there is a ton of communication which happens daily with the Blue posts.
10/02/2018 07:15 AMPosted by Akston
We have people saying WoW devs never communicate...over-exaggeration


Where has someone said that? Please quote your proof.

Also, like I said in point one, Can you really blame people for being upset because they have to, because of the things they enjoy about the game, do things they have told Blizzard in alpha/beta are unfun, and they are just now getting ANY form of communication?

IMO both parties are to blame here. We can make it easier, but Devs could have been communicating more in alpha/beta.

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