Are raids even worth it?

General Discussion
After much debate and research on BiS and what-not, I've hit a major road block in the form of a question.

Are raids even worth doing now?

In all seriousness, all of my BiS azerite lists (apart from shoulders -- Hooray for the Chitinspine shoulders coming in at a solid 3rd BiS) have dungeon or world quest gear at the top of every single one of them. To make the raid pieces even worth it, you have to make sure you kill 3 raid bosses every week for 5 weeks. I'm not opposed to that. Killing 3 bosses in Uldir is cake walk.

Oh, and trinkets. I remember fondly seeking out trinkets from raids previously because they were good. But now, Blood-borne syringe is mid tier on a huge list of trinkets. G'huuns trinket? 6th from the bottom. My #1 trinket right now is Dread Aspirants Badge.... My #2 trinket is a trinket from a WORLD RARE. I don't even have to do Mythics or heroics to get the 2 BiS trinkets currently available for my class.

This post is gonna get a lot of hate. I get that. I'm not frustrated, I just can't come up with a good answer for my question. I'll still raid, because I love it. I just hate that my incentive has been stripped away for doing raids. Before you guys tell me that there is incentive still, I get that. But gear was a huge part of it. Now? Things in a raid are barely even a slight upgrade.

In closing, I do see a slight resemblance to Highmaul in Warlords. That loot was garbage. But we didn't have Mythic+ to supplement bad loot from raids. Maybe this expansion really will be WoD 2.0. I guess we'll find out soon with the new raid coming out.
I thought people wanted gear and progression alternatives to raiding?
Raid gear is BiS in raiding, at least to the extent you need an Uldir buff. Azerite is also extremely difficult to farm correctly for in mythic+. PvP offers gear galore, but not great gear if you're not well-rated.

So is it worth it? I'd say yes, unless you're only a hardcore PvP guy.
09/28/2018 01:25 PMPosted by Dliver
Raid gear is BiS in raiding, at least to the extent you need an Uldir buff. Azerite is also extremely difficult to farm correctly for in mythic+. PvP offers gear galore, but not great gear if you're not well-rated.

So is it worth it? I'd say yes, unless you're only a hardcore PvP guy.


But my BiS azerite pieces are all from World quests? I get the whole reorigination array idea. What I think might be wrong with these lists is that they don't take into account is the number of stacks you may have inside of Uldir. That's fine, if that's the case then I'll rescind my statement on the raid gear. But the trinkets is another issue. I do have a problem when my BiS trinket list includes 2 PvP trinkets and a world rare trinket in the top 3. I don't see the Blood-borne syringe until number 12 on the list. At that point, the trinket is so far behind it's not even worth having. It just doesn't make much sense to me at all. I'm all for gearing outside of raiding, but when you make raid gear (mainly the trinkets) obsolete, then what exactly is the point?

I just feel like blizzard is dropping the ball right now on the raiding community and it's hitting me hard. This is a fresh account, so it won't reflect my raiding history, but I've been raiding since Cata. This is the first time where I've really questioned why I'm raiding outside of it being fun. I'm questioning what the incentives are. That was always a clear distinction in the past, apart from Highmaul.
09/28/2018 01:35 PMPosted by Johnboitoi
09/28/2018 01:25 PMPosted by Dliver
Raid gear is BiS in raiding, at least to the extent you need an Uldir buff. Azerite is also extremely difficult to farm correctly for in mythic+. PvP offers gear galore, but not great gear if you're not well-rated.

So is it worth it? I'd say yes, unless you're only a hardcore PvP guy.


But my BiS azerite pieces are all from World quests?


They aren't though. Sure, WQs may offer BiS 325 or 340 azerite gear. But it doesn't go higher than that and a 370 from Uldir is going to be a lot better overall even if the trait isn't as good.
09/28/2018 01:21 PMPosted by Johnboitoi
Are raids even worth doing now?
The people I know who still raid consistently do it because they find the activity itself, with the teams they're on, actually fun.

For them, the answer seems to be "yes".

For people who have less fun with it, who only got pushed over the line into doing it because of the gear rewards, the answer seems to be "no". And I consider that a good thing, myself.
Mythic + dungs are better for gear. But raiding is fun for me atleast. One of the things i really enjoy. The raid encounters and mythic+ are great, but gear itself i believe is not really that great rn in general.
"Are raids even worth doing now?"

A lot of us raid for the sake of raiding, our gear exists to help us take on those challenges. While I'm sure some people raid for the gear, most of us raid for the experience and sense of progression.

All depends on what you value.
do you find them fun? yes
do you not find them fun? no
this game must be very boring if you only play to obtain BIS gear, or highest item level possible.

some people like a sense of adventure and accomplishment.
Not that I care about raiding or dungeons to begin with, but I'll do raids purely for tiered transmog. Now we don't even have that. And what sets we do have are ugly and samey. There's absolutely no reason for me to even LFR Uldir to see what it looks like.
Serious question:

How good does it need to be... when you'll replace it in 2 months anyway??

Seems to me the only tier worth chasing is the final one per expac, as you'll actually have it for 8-9 months.
I think it's fun to do raids because they can be interesting and challenging! I think it depends on if you like doing them or not.

Gear comes and goes, but exploring new areas and experiencing cool boss fights stay with you forever!
for the transmog only.
09/28/2018 02:00 PMPosted by Douglas
The people I know who still raid consistently do it because they find the activity itself, with the teams they're on, actually fun.

For them, the answer seems to be "yes".

For people who have less fun with it, who only got pushed over the line into doing it because of the gear rewards, the answer seems to be "no". And I consider that a good thing, myself.


Idk. On one hand, I'm one of those who will raid due to fun regardless of the gear. But on the other hand - why is this argument only made about progression raiding?

Everyone knows the whole "LFR is to see the story so it doesn't need rewards" is a joke. When people bring up the M+ cache, they might argue about whether it is or isn't rewarding enough...but I never see people say "well if you have fun running dungeons, why would you need a cache at all?"

But when it comes to raiding, suddenly people act like we're wrong to care about rewards - when the entire endgame is built around rewards.

We all play WoW because it's fun, but that doesn't mean rewards and incentives don't drive player behavior, and it's silly to act like raiding should be exempt from that.
*gearing options open up outside of raid drops*

GD: WHAT DO WE EVEN HAVE RAIDS FOR ANYMORE???
I enjoy raiding but probably wouldn't bother if it gave no gear.
To me raids are worth it, I just don't have the time to put into 3 hours a night. 2 kids and family that's why LFR is nice for me. I still can follow the story which is why i'm still here. I'm ultra competitive so i'm always trying to push myself the best I can
Looking for a BiS item and raiding to only get BiS items is, and always will be, a carrot on a stick you will never catch.

I quit chasing my tail years ago. I only do things in the game that interest me. Sometimes I do pet battles. Sometimes I do BG's. Sometimes I raid. Sometimes I do dungeons if the bag of goodies is available.

About 80% of the time I spend in game, I am afk reading. Reading consumes about 8-10 hours a day.
09/28/2018 02:09 PMPosted by Tetsubin
Everyone knows the whole "LFR is to see the story so it doesn't need rewards" is a joke.
This is not true. In fact, I tend to make a point of ensuring that I'm overgeared for LFR before I even set foot in it. Look over my armory page if you want to convince yourself I'm telling the truth.

Some folks out there who say this stuff may be hypocrites, but I'm not one of them.

(I'm also totally fine with LFR not opening all at once the day a raid goes live. I'm also fine with this "raider.io" thing all the kids are going on about. I'm just saying this stuff so people can decide how casual they'd like to regard me, and tune their reflexive contempt as appropriate.)

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