So BM is now 14th in Uldir DPS

Hunter
10/04/2018 03:59 PMPosted by Onii
So are you trying to say bm doesnt have the highest uptime in the game...while still capable of doing full dps?


Not really debating that but to imply that other melee dont have basically 100% uptime is beyond me.

We are basically a ranged melee.

Not really sure the point you were even trying to make, but to bring up uptime is silly since most melee as I said and as logs show have a 98%+ uptime. Now I understand the melee that can spam some garbage spell from range might do so.

Look at the classes without a ranged spam ability, also I your example you said frost dk would use their range howling blast, I sure hope in that next global hes back on the boss he didn't need that frost rune for his actual rotation.
10/01/2018 04:07 PMPosted by Hydrosdreem
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19

I guess nerfing us week 1 of expansion was super important, Don't let things shake out for a few weeks to see where things are, just listen to the nerds complain that BM can move and should there for do less dmg.

I already knew we scaled better at low level than higher levels. But leave it to blizz to swing the bat at us so early without any real stats to work off of.

So do we now get a "i'm sorry buff"?


The warcraft logs change every day to week.

It's not that reliable, and we're only there to bring the lust/heal/purge.
10/01/2018 04:07 PMPosted by Hydrosdreem
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19

I guess nerfing us week 1 of expansion was super important, Don't let things shake out for a few weeks to see where things are, just listen to the nerds complain that BM can move and should there for do less dmg.

I already knew we scaled better at low level than higher levels. But leave it to blizz to swing the bat at us so early without any real stats to work off of.

So do we now get a "i'm sorry buff"?


"BM too easy to play, shouldn't be anywhere near top DPS!"

*blizz responds by making frost DK and outlaw top DPS*
10/05/2018 05:25 AMPosted by Cowterstrike
10/01/2018 04:07 PMPosted by Hydrosdreem
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19

I guess nerfing us week 1 of expansion was super important, Don't let things shake out for a few weeks to see where things are, just listen to the nerds complain that BM can move and should there for do less dmg.

I already knew we scaled better at low level than higher levels. But leave it to blizz to swing the bat at us so early without any real stats to work off of.

So do we now get a "i'm sorry buff"?


The warcraft logs change every day to week.

It's not that reliable, and we're only there to bring the lust/heal/purge.


If you really think we are invited to a raid to lust heal or purge I feel sorry for your raid.

It's hard to say how balanced we are, i feel fine in raids, people are to worried about where they fall in their raid group and instead should be just worrying about how they parse.

If you're a solid purple parser ANY guild will want you as a ranged dps, if you parse grey it doesnt matter where on the Log Meters you fall, no one worth their salt will want you anyway.
The gap between good BM and bad BM hunters being small does not mean the class is easy. It just means a lot of our damage is auto attack or pet damage. As we are mobile, this damage is pretty much non stop. The rest of our damage, the part we control and is affected by player skill, is relatively smaller than other classes, but the rotation difficult is the same or higher than most other classes. I've played survival, ret, spriest, and frost mage this xpac, and I'd say spriest is the most annoying, BM is second hardest, and the rest are much easier. Ret I can take little naps as I play.

And our mobility and ability to do mechanics is already built into our DPS numbers. You can see this on openers. Other classes will burst well above BM, then as the fight goes on we gradually move up the meters as they lose DPS to movement, though tbh they lose less DPS than you'd expect since most classes either have some kind of mobility while casting ability, or their burst/recovery cycle means they're just losing a little filler during movement.
10/04/2018 03:59 PMPosted by Onii
So are you trying to say bm doesnt have the highest uptime in the game...while still capable of doing full dps?


Melee has 98%+ uptime in raids.

Sure you can say BM has 100%.

But then check out logs and that our "uptime" doesn't make us even top half of the DPS charts. We are sitting well below middle WHILE being mobile AND having 100% uptime. So where's the advantage again?
10/12/2018 06:15 PMPosted by Videre
10/04/2018 03:59 PMPosted by Onii
So are you trying to say bm doesnt have the highest uptime in the game...while still capable of doing full dps?


Melee has 98%+ uptime in raids.

Sure you can say BM has 100%.

But then check out logs and that our "uptime" doesn't make us even top half of the DPS charts. We are sitting well below middle WHILE being mobile AND having 100% uptime. So where's the advantage again?


I already mentioned all this to him and this thread.

Mobility means literally NOTHING in raids.

To tax a class because they have it is beyond dumb.
nerfed 2 days into heroic raids. LOL. Now bottom of the dps. Why should I expect anything else from this small indie company
...

Doesn’t work like that, especially if you look at a data slice like the common 75th percentile performers.

If you do want to look at the overall, BM and SV Hunters both have among the smallest gaps between the highest performers and the lowest performers.

The gap for other classes is often much larger.


Correct which to me like I have always said is why BM is the easiest spec in the game.

If you look at any fight and do 99th percentile to the monitor lickers at 10th percentile on all fights that gap is the smallest, usually just a difference of 3-5k dps.

Feral arguably has been the hardest spec in the game since Legion and the Log Data supports that by them having the largest gap from 99th percentile to 10th percentile.


Im sick and tired of seeing posts like this. No spec is hard anymore.
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Correct which to me like I have always said is why BM is the easiest spec in the game.

If you look at any fight and do 99th percentile to the monitor lickers at 10th percentile on all fights that gap is the smallest, usually just a difference of 3-5k dps.

Feral arguably has been the hardest spec in the game since Legion and the Log Data supports that by them having the largest gap from 99th percentile to 10th percentile.


Im sick and tired of seeing posts like this. No spec is hard anymore.


That wasnt the point.

Heres an example of the point I was making.

Imagine a 10 parser, he parses grey at 10k dps. Then on the same fight another BM hunter parses a 99 and he does 14k dps. The gap in skill is huge, but the dps output are very close in margin, so from a window licker to a top player is such a small dps difference.

Now look at feral, the 10 parser does 10k dps but the 99 parser does 22k dps. So the relative skill difference is very noticeable.

That's the point I'm making and the logs show, yes most classes are within 7k or so dps but BM was only usually a 5k dps difference from screen licker to a top orange parse.
10/02/2018 01:00 AMPosted by Àddíct
10/01/2018 10:58 PMPosted by Moonuredps
We always end up last.

In all fairness we get the "easiest spec in the game tax".


You mean like every class just about? We're all 5 button rotations just about. Ret you do tiny hp management and everntually hit whatevers off cd. Arms you do a little bit of line up, same with frost mage. Affliction you keep up some dots, hell surv isnt even that difficult to do the rotation. No class is all that difficult to play anymore but apparently we still got the stigma, reguardless of class changes, that we should have a ""easiest spec in the game tax''. My ret, is easier to play than this. BM punishes you if you miss a kill command and dont max out your rotation. We balance a buff we have to use a third party addon for and literally squeeze out every last second on it which is 100% up to the player to judge. Our prioirity system when managing frenzy is so important we get screwed and have to restart frenzy stacks if we press one wrong button which costs up a lot of dps.

Easiest class in the game? Not anymore. Is it hard? No, no really. But are other classes punished as badly for messing up the rotation a little? Definitely not.

So i get a little annoyed hearing easiest class when bfa changed it, and we still have the stigma and receive nerfs like its still true. But hey. its not like we're all reinforcing the developers beliefs in this as well right????


Great post. Sums it up imo.
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Im sick and tired of seeing posts like this. No spec is hard anymore.


That wasnt the point.

Heres an example of the point I was making.

Imagine a 10 parser, he parses grey at 10k dps. Then on the same fight another BM hunter parses a 99 and he does 14k dps. The gap in skill is huge, but the dps output are very close in margin, so from a window licker to a top player is such a small dps difference.

Now look at feral, the 10 parser does 10k dps but the 99 parser does 22k dps. So the relative skill difference is very noticeable.

That's the point I'm making and the logs show, yes most classes are within 7k or so dps but BM was only usually a 5k dps difference from screen licker to a top orange parse.


Except those numbers are made up:

10 parses on Uldir Heroic:

BM: 8.6k dps
Asa: 9.2k dps
Outlaw: 8.7k dps
DH: 8.6k dps
Feral: 7.1k dps

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#dataset=10&difficulty=4&aggregate=amount

99 parses on Uldir Heroic:

BM: 16.9k dps or 196% of the low parser.
Asa: 17.7k dps or 192% of the low parser.
Outlaw: 17.4k dps or 200% of the low parser.
DH: 17.7k dps or 205% of the low parser.
Feral: 16.9 k dps or 230% of the low parser.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#dataset=99&difficulty=4&aggregate=amount

Not only is the % difference between the classes rather small, but it would suggest the easiest dps in the game is actually Asa Rogue. The only stand out here is honestly Feral, which would suggest, rather than BM being easy to play, Feral being really hard to play at a high level.

There really is nothing in this particular dataset to suggest BM is any easier than any class other than maybe Feral. So I guess mad props to whoever is doing great as a feral in his raids, but that has nothing to do with BM being easy or not.
10/02/2018 12:32 PMPosted by Lazyguide
10/02/2018 12:20 PMPosted by Videre
Still surprised though that as low as we are in the logs, a lot of the top guilds that have done 8/8 Mythic Uldir have brought 3 BM hunters to most of their fights. Not sure why though, if anyone can enlighten me as to why BM hunters are desired in M Uldir even though our DPS is not even middle of the pack, that'd be great. Is it cause of mechanics? Do we do some mechanic that other classes don't or something?
It's because of a few of the same reasons why BM is amazing at soloing content compared to other classes.

It's not necessarily always about the damage you do, but being able to perform mechanics more easily than others and survive to keep bringing your DPS.

Being ranged and mobile at all times is deceptively strong when it comes to being able to survive a highly difficult encounter or perform a mechanic. You can easily reposition yourself and adjust on the fly. For fights that are supposed to be cutting edge, sometimes they aren't lacking on damage but execution. BM hunters are great for the first round of progression typically because of their ability to handle mechanics quickly and efficiently.

Damage isn't always everything.


Exactly this we are a range class that is mobile as a melee, except we don't take a melee spot and we can do mechanics with ease, we have good defensive CDs wit aspect of the turtle, the defensive of a tenacity spec and if you bring a spirit beast you get spirit mend, and let's not forget that we have acess to a potent heal with exilaration. So yeah damage is not everything we have some strong tools to help healers keep their ressources.

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