(8.1 Spoilers) A kick in the sack for the Horde

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09/26/2018 04:59 AMPosted by Kaanrii
09/25/2018 11:36 PMPosted by Enekie
So, I ask this honestly and not snarkily at all, but does it ever get tiring for Horde players to have a vast majority of their storylines revolve around getting tricked into committing evil acts and then having to redeem yourselves for it later?


Yes.

And Garrosh 2.0 is the lamest storyline EVER. And I'm sick of being forced to do evil !@#$ for Banshee Hitler in order to just progress the story.

The one glimmer of hope is that the mag'har unlocking quest strongly hints that at some future expansion, the Light is going to become an oppressive, strangulating force and make the Alliance be the bad guys for once. Not that it'll actually happen because Blizzard are too much of pussies to actually make the Alliance bad guys, but I can dream some expansion will revolve around the oppressive light.


The Light can't be bad guys. Not with Anduin.

Even if Light guys become bad guys, Andy will know what's up.

That's the problem.

Anduin is utterly flawless. So his enemy has to be the polar opposite.

So if Andy is The Good Guy, Horde Leader must be the BAD guy.

Voljin and Varian both had to die narratively so that Andy could become High King.
09/26/2018 04:59 AMPosted by Kaanrii
09/25/2018 11:36 PMPosted by Enekie
So, I ask this honestly and not snarkily at all, but does it ever get tiring for Horde players to have a vast majority of their storylines revolve around getting tricked into committing evil acts and then having to redeem yourselves for it later?


Yes.

And Garrosh 2.0 is the lamest storyline EVER. And I'm sick of being forced to do evil !@#$ for Banshee Hitler in order to just progress the story.

The one glimmer of hope is that the mag'har unlocking quest strongly hints that at some future expansion, the Light is going to become an oppressive, strangulating force and make the Alliance be the bad guys for once. Not that it'll actually happen because Blizzard are too much of pussies to actually make the Alliance bad guys, but I can dream some expansion will revolve around the oppressive light.


I'd love to see just some crazyness ya know, being bold with the story, leading us down real twists and turns while we sit here like "What did we just witness" but in awe not annoyance.

When I watched Arthas purge Stratholme I was dumbfounded, but man, Arthas is my all time favourite character, he just had an awesome but dark story that kept me glued.
09/26/2018 04:31 AMPosted by Kromede
They were talking about a bargain in which Sylvanas gets to trap Eyir, but what did Helya get?

It's possible that Helya thought the opportunity to be rid of Eyir was enough of a benefit in and of itself. Otherwise... I am supremely worried.

09/26/2018 04:59 AMPosted by Tarc
If anything, it widens Sylvanas' story arc, opening the door on a predestination vs. self-determination development.

Think Sheridan in Babylon 5. The Vorlons groomed him to be the next...in an apparently long series...of champions to stick it to the Shadows, but in stead he stuck it to the entire system and drove them both off.

But they literally just did that with Illidan and Xe'ra.

And if Sylvanas is anyone in that arc, she's Cartagia. A spoiled brat who never should've taken the throne, put there by the machinations of others way over their head, whose influence has only caused more misery and grief for everyone.

The only good news is somewhere out there is a Vir with her name on it.
09/26/2018 05:06 AMPosted by Mardrus
09/26/2018 04:59 AMPosted by Kaanrii
...

Yes.

And Garrosh 2.0 is the lamest storyline EVER. And I'm sick of being forced to do evil !@#$ for Banshee Hitler in order to just progress the story.

The one glimmer of hope is that the mag'har unlocking quest strongly hints that at some future expansion, the Light is going to become an oppressive, strangulating force and make the Alliance be the bad guys for once. Not that it'll actually happen because Blizzard are too much of pussies to actually make the Alliance bad guys, but I can dream some expansion will revolve around the oppressive light.


I'd love to see just some crazyness ya know, being bold with the story, leading us down real twists and turns while we sit here like "What did we just witness" but in awe not annoyance.

When I watched Arthas purge Stratholme I was dumbfounded, but man, Arthas is my all time favourite character, he just had an awesome but dark story that kept me glued.


Did Arthas do anything wrong in purging Stratholme?

Debatable.

Those people were going to be undead 100% chance. They died....but they died human. Now suppose he just barricaded the city, and locked the gates and waited for them all to turn. Would it........have actually been better that way?

What's actually debatable this expansion?
09/25/2018 11:32 PMPosted by Onotay
Datamined broadcast text.
I been callin' ta Bwonsamdi for a long time. He not be hearin' me... or he been choosin' not ta answer.

Da truth dat it might not be da loa who wanted Sylvanas to be warchief, but somethin' far more powerful.
Shadow hunter, you are no longer a mere spirit. What you have become is something beyond my power to forge.

Who be havin' such power? Could it be da same one who bid me ta name Sylvanas warchief?

You have been touched by the hand of valor. Such a noble force does not scheme for mortal thrones.

So whoever whispered to me's not da same as who sent me back?


Okay so now not only did Vol'jin get killed by random Felguard #205246-B
But now it turns out his vision before death was actually him getting duped. Which means all of us were duped, including Sylvanas herself.

So is there no Horde prosperity to be found under Sylvanas after all? The one solace we were supposed to have that there was some grand future in store for us under Sylvanas was all a lie?

I was pissed enough when Before the Storm didn't answer any questions but rather just gave us ANduin's hurty bones and cartoonish Sylvanas villainy. Then it turned out Blizz was acting all coy about who burned Teldrassil for no reason at all. And now it turns out Vol'jin's vision that assured us things would get better was all just a joke on us too? Does Blizzard just enjoy giving us false hope for a halfway decent story?

I can only imagine the meeting where they decided on this. "Hm, how can we make Vol'jin's death seem even more pathetic than it already did?"


Talking about her horee and crying like you matter. Entire game is based around our story line however they just give you guys shiny because well sad horde players get shiny. We lost one leader u guys have lost HOW MANY. that clearly shows you who the lore revolves around lawls.
09/25/2018 11:32 PMPosted by Onotay
Okay so now not only did Vol'jin get killed by random Felguard #205246-B
But now it turns out his vision before death was actually him getting duped.
not only that but the entity that whispered to vol'jin might also be responsible for his death
I remember it takin' me somewhere, but da memory of where be hidden from me. Ta keep me from sharin' da truth...
Sometin' not be right dat day. Da demons, deir blades slipped past me guard.
09/25/2018 11:32 PMPosted by Onotay
Datamined broadcast text.
... ...

Okay so now not only did Vol'jin get killed by random Felguard #205246-B
But now it turns out his vision before death was actually him getting duped. Which means all of us were duped, including Sylvanas herself.

So is there no Horde prosperity to be found under Sylvanas after all? The one solace we were supposed to have that there was some grand future in store for us under Sylvanas was all a lie?

I was pissed enough when Before the Storm didn't answer any questions but rather just gave us ANduin's hurty bones and cartoonish Sylvanas villainy. Then it turned out Blizz was acting all coy about who burned Teldrassil for no reason at all. And now it turns out Vol'jin's vision that assured us things would get better was all just a joke on us too? Does Blizzard just enjoy giving us false hope for a halfway decent story?

I can only imagine the meeting where they decided on this. "Hm, how can we make Vol'jin's death seem even more pathetic than it already did?"


Talking about her horee and crying like you matter. Entire game is based around our story line however they just give you guys shiny because well sad horde players get shiny. We lost one leader u guys have lost HOW MANY. that clearly shows you who the lore revolves around lawls.


Which makes no freaking sense because

1. Horde Favoritism
2. Devs play Horde more than Alliance - that included Metzen when he used to be one

But as I said the real problem for the game right now.

Is Anduin.

This is all Anduin's fault and whoever wrote him.

I think in a distant future we may come back to Thrall's Horde.
09/26/2018 05:11 AMPosted by Stinkmeener
<span class="truncated">...</span>

I'd love to see just some crazyness ya know, being bold with the story, leading us down real twists and turns while we sit here like "What did we just witness" but in awe not annoyance.

When I watched Arthas purge Stratholme I was dumbfounded, but man, Arthas is my all time favourite character, he just had an awesome but dark story that kept me glued.


Did Arthas do anything wrong in purging Stratholme?

Debatable.

Those people were going to be undead 100% chance. They died....but they died human. Now suppose he just barricaded the city, and locked the gates and waited for them all to turn. Would it........have actually been better that way?

What's actually debatable this expansion?


I have never blamed Arthas. What could you do? he knew first hand they were going to turn, who would actually enjoy being undead? Some, maybe, but not most.

He wasn't happy about it, he just felt that he had to. And then when he found out that it was actually mal'ganis in Northerend, he had to go, because if he didn't and Mal'ganis kept spreading the plague, then the culling of Stratholme would of been for nothing. Sure, he was driven by vengeance, but I believe it was justified.

Had he not picked up the sword and killed Mal'ganis through other means, in a normal world, he would of carried that guilt with him forever. if he was able to have downtime and reflect on what had happened, he'd of been a broken man. Probably at the bottom of a whiskey bottle every night.

Damn I loved that story lol. I'd love to see something of it's kind again.

I'm not sure something has to be debatable to be a good story, but if I was Horde I'd have to decide whether I was going to be prey for the Alliance or would I embrace the war? I think embracing Sylvanas would make an excellent story.
09/25/2018 11:37 PMPosted by Laudrian
The grand plot twist of this xpac is "Old Gods did it!" I unfortunately can't say I'm surprised, though I eagerly await another plot twist further down the expansion.


That's what I originally thought before they made the undead strong vs. the Void.

Now I'm wondering if the Light could be trying to raise an undead army to fight the Void Lords
09/25/2018 11:37 PMPosted by Laudrian
The grand plot twist of this xpac is "Old Gods did it!" I unfortunately can't say I'm surprised, though I eagerly await another plot twist further down the expansion.


Is that even a plot twist at this point though? It would be more of a plot twist if the old gods were not involved at all.
Honestly, we haven't really explored the "Death" side of the Warcraft cosmos too much. Every other corner, we have some larger than life entities lurking behind there to a degree.

Light - Naaru, maybe Elune?
Life - Wild Gods
Order - Titans
Shadow - Old Gods, Void Lords
Fel - Burning Legion, Sargeras
Death - ?

What characters we have around Death feel rather ancillary to me. The Lich King was created by the Burning Legion, Helya/Val'kyr are kind of offshoots of the Titans, etc. I think there is more behind the curtain there we haven't explored yet, and Bwonsamdi even hints at it.
09/25/2018 11:32 PMPosted by Onotay
So is there no Horde prosperity to be found under Sylvanas after all? The one solace we were supposed to have that there was some grand future in store for us under Sylvanas was all a lie?


How much prosperity were you expecting from the undead banshee that has blatantly declared she wants to kill all the living, and has both plague bombed her own troops, and raised them as undead minions?

Sylvanas is NOT a good leader. She is flawed, vengeful, and basically looking out for her power. Even when Garrosh was Warchief, in the intro quests in Silverpine, she both was compared to the Lich King for her activities, and even refused to follow orders by continuing to carpet plague Gilneas. Finding out Vol'jin was tricked by the Old Gods before his death is less upsetting than thinking he was a complete idiot for nominating her.

Speaking of, where the heck is Thrall? When is the "Earth Shaman" going to face up to his own responsibility for letting the Horde slide back into darkness?
09/25/2018 11:36 PMPosted by Enekie
So, I ask this honestly and not snarkily at all, but does it ever get tiring for Horde players to have a vast majority of their storylines revolve around getting tricked into committing evil acts and then having to redeem yourselves for it later?

Because that seems to happen a lot.


Yes, it's extremely annoying, because many of us knew what she was doing and what Garrosh was doing was wrong and yet we were forced to play along. Actually I'm quite fed up with it.
09/25/2018 11:32 PMPosted by Onotay
Okay so now not only did Vol'jin get killed by random Felguard #205246-B

I am still ticked that he went out like that. Who writes this crap? Even if he achieves Godhood he still went out like little bit@^.
09/25/2018 11:32 PMPosted by Onotay
Datamined broadcast text.
I been callin' ta Bwonsamdi for a long time. He not be hearin' me... or he been choosin' not ta answer.

Da truth dat it might not be da loa who wanted Sylvanas to be warchief, but somethin' far more powerful.
Shadow hunter, you are no longer a mere spirit. What you have become is something beyond my power to forge.

Who be havin' such power? Could it be da same one who bid me ta name Sylvanas warchief?

You have been touched by the hand of valor. Such a noble force does not scheme for mortal thrones.

So whoever whispered to me's not da same as who sent me back?


Okay so now not only did Vol'jin get killed by random Felguard #205246-B
But now it turns out his vision before death was actually him getting duped. Which means all of us were duped, including Sylvanas herself.

So is there no Horde prosperity to be found under Sylvanas after all? The one solace we were supposed to have that there was some grand future in store for us under Sylvanas was all a lie?

I was pissed enough when Before the Storm didn't answer any questions but rather just gave us ANduin's hurty bones and cartoonish Sylvanas villainy. Then it turned out Blizz was acting all coy about who burned Teldrassil for no reason at all. And now it turns out Vol'jin's vision that assured us things would get better was all just a joke on us too? Does Blizzard just enjoy giving us false hope for a halfway decent story?

I can only imagine the meeting where they decided on this. "Hm, how can we make Vol'jin's death seem even more pathetic than it already did?"

Don't worry, us Alliance will help you dethrone sylvanas. Just like how we dethrone Garrosh for you guys. No need to thank us.
A cow and a troll and an orc walked into a Mensa club....said no one..
09/26/2018 05:20 AMPosted by Xianwae
Honestly, we haven't really explored the "Death" side of the Warcraft cosmos too much.
what we do know however is that every character tied to the power of death all agree on one thing, sylvanas upsets the balance of life and death and is bad news
Sylvanas has been acting blatantly evil dude. I think it was a mistake to take horde in this direction, but they did. So they have to do something about it.
I have no doubt this is blizzard's way to force a "civil" war storyline in the horde. Even though they had one with Saurfang and the whole honor culture going on among orc. Its very poorly done, and it trivializes major characters.

It seems Blizzard has a writer problem. There are too many storylines going in too many directions. They need to reign in their writing team. Bring more order into storytelling.
I'm pretty sure Mueh'zala was the one who asked him to name Sylvanas warchief. They recently drew attention back to him in the Traveller, and he has a small shrine in the sandfury area in Zuldazar.

He's a loa of death far older and far more powerful than Bwonsamdi, and he seeks to consume all of Azeroth. He's also theorized to be the spirit that gave Odyn the ability to see into the shadowlands (as both entities are described to have the same "shapeless" appearance)

This would line up with the Three Sisters comic, and would make sense as the "true enemy" spoken of by the void to Alleria, as his interests would conflict with the void's.

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