120k gold to change traits

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Mind you, I stopped reading after only a couple pages in, but even after that many posts, no one mentioned that the reforging cost goes DOWN by half every 2-3 days you don't use it.

Get some off-spec gear if you're doing this a lot, or just don't do it as often when you do.
At that point its forget the guild forget raiding and forget blizzard lol
09/26/2018 08:08 PMPosted by Dorgrodan
Right so 120k gold or 20 dollars to change a trait is normal, thanks for your input, *slides you over to the extreme column*


No one above this comment said that. Not sure why 80 people would like this comment.
09/27/2018 10:51 AMPosted by Jinx
Mind you, I stopped reading after only a couple pages in, but even after that many posts, no one mentioned that the reforging cost goes DOWN by half every 2-3 days you don't use it.

Get some off-spec gear if you're doing this a lot, or just don't do it as often when you do.


not going to lie... I forgot about this.

Anyway... Tier siets were great because they changed with spec and you didn't always HAVE to have 2-3 sets of gear or more in your bags. People comment 'oh it's just 3 pieces' NO it's not. I have trinkets for each spec, weapons for each spec and eventually will probably have better itemized rings for each spec.

The azerite system (and the artifact system in legion) tossed that ease of playing hybrids completely out.

I hate it. I loved being hybrid before Legion because I was able to fufill my raid groups needs and I had fun with it. Because of the reforging costs I cannot afford to keep swapping so I focus on healing (since thats my main raid spec) with the slim hope azerite pieces drop. It feels like it's SO hard to get azerite pieces at raid level though. My pally just got her second 370+ piece of azerite gear despite doing mythic+, raids, dungeons etc since they launched in game and being around 356 before and she still has 340 pants.

I hope they seriously start considering that the costs are completely ridiculous and start listening to those that don't have thousands, if not millions, of gold to spend. I use my gold for raiding, repairs, etc and buying my sub time... I can't afford anything else.

Even if costs depreciate after awhile... it's still out of control how high they can get and I have only reforged a couple of items because I got better traits for a certain spec but that probably won't happen again for awhile with the current drop rate/rng I have.
I currently have..

2 sets for Boomy
1 set for Guardian
1 set for Restoration.

My reforge cost is 5g.

The reforge cost diminishes if you don't use it. It scares me to think that your friend WAS willing to even rack it up to 120k. They must've already paid 50k+ atleast lol
What I find funny about this is this. I get a piece of 370 azerite gear with both good tank and DPS traits. From this point forward this has to only be DPS or tank related right? So then how long do I have to wait to get that same piece again at around the same item level to be an upgrade for the spec I want to off on?

The issue with Azerite gear (stupid horrible system btw) is now I have RNG, with RNG on top of a high cost. With the post from Josh (btw this probably hurt Bliz PR more then anything in history currently....might be an exaggeration) this will not improve, it will get worse. Especially since it counters several points Ion made.

I love this game, I hate Azerite. This xpac might go down as the worst in the history of wow simply because of that. All other parts of BfA I like.
09/27/2018 11:13 AMPosted by Yasudra
09/26/2018 08:08 PMPosted by Dorgrodan
Right so 120k gold or 20 dollars to change a trait is normal, thanks for your input, *slides you over to the extreme column*


No one above this comment said that. Not sure why 80 people would like this comment.


For you....in bold so you could read it. They were dismissing my argument by saying multi non-optimal sets should make up for a horrendous 120k gold trait swap charge, not including the thousands spent up to that point. The cost is too high, that is the crux of my argument. Bring the costs down; and dramatically; for the average player.
Having multiple sets of gear for different specs has been the norm forever.

Azerite traits are meant to be choices with at least a little bit of weight. Being able to change them effortlessly like talents would sort of make them redundant.
09/27/2018 11:13 AMPosted by Yasudra
...

No one above this comment said that. Not sure why 80 people would like this comment.


For you....in bold so you could read it. They were dismissing my argument by saying multi non-optimal sets should make up for a horrendous 120k gold trait swap charge, not including the thousands spent up to that point. The cost is too high, that is the crux of my argument. Bring the costs down; and dramatically; for the average player.
[quote]Having multiple sets of gear for different specs has been the norm forever.

Azerite traits are meant to be choices with at least a little bit of weight. Being able to change them effortlessly like talents would sort of make them redundant.


The cost was horrendous because they were reforging to a horrendous degree. The average player isn't going to be reforging anywhere close to what the OP had to in order to rack up a 120k bill.
09/27/2018 08:07 AMPosted by Cyouskin
09/27/2018 03:12 AMPosted by Shewtsy
I just don't understand why you're defending this still. This is literally like as if you had to farm multiple pieces of tier set in previous expansions, one for each spec. There is a reason why the tier set bonuses changed when you changed spec. Because it makes sense. (Azerite armor should do this too and would render the whole reforge issue moot)

That's really not the case, at all.

And as you said, Azerite gear working differently would greatly improve the situation. We already agree Azerite is flawed.

I'm still not convinced Reforging is an issue. Sure, it's inconvenient. Its cost is designed to be inconvenient. Could the reforging costs be a bit softer and capped off at a lower rate? Absolutely. But reforging in itself is not an issue.

09/27/2018 03:12 AMPosted by Shewtsy
Plus it wasn't even as hard to get your hands on the tier pieces you actually wanted.

RIP Master Loot. Still one of the worst decisions made imo.

09/27/2018 03:12 AMPosted by Shewtsy
Even if we assume validity to your speculation that it is a small subset of players who need to be able to play multiple specs at a high level... give me some good reasons why it improves the game to not allow them to do so by gating it behind an impossible gold cost. What is the value of this system to the game? What does it do other than make life unpleasant for some players?

As noted above, it's literally the cost of min/max'ing. Still open to capping off the cost.

09/27/2018 03:12 AMPosted by Shewtsy
How does it make the game better for you or for me that I have a good item with a good trait for two specs but I'm not allowed to use it for one spec because it arbitrarily costs an asinine amount of gold to use the item for both specs when it has traits for both specs right on it?

Designer's choice on that one. I've already moved from "stop scrapping your gear" to "Yeah, okay, you have a point. But I don't think Reforging costs should be removed."

It's fair to say reforging costs get out of control is you absolutely must feel the need to min/max every possible outcome. I've been getting pretty terrible RNG week after week, I've simply not been getting Azerite pieces myself.

I really can't say it more clearly than before -- I loathe Azerite gear. Azewrite gear is flawed, the reforging costs are largely okay, though capping the cost will help offset the negatives of Azerite gear.

09/27/2018 03:12 AMPosted by Shewtsy
How is that good game design?

Costs and rewards are part of game design. There are going to be inconveniences. "Not flying til you reach max level" most players would be totally fine with that. "Waiting for pathfinder" is received pretty poorly, yet that's what we got. Removing the cost on reforging is the same as asking for "flying to be available the moment I step foot into the new zones" -- I don't like that idea.

Class gameplay locked behind gear, in my opinion, is bad game design. Taking away from one core system and slapping on a different system is not fun nor interesting.

The flaw with this entire point is that Blizzard decided many years ago the game was better if you didn't incur a penalty for playing multiple facets of your class and this system is a direct regression on that for good no reason.

Also can we stop pretending we're talking about min/maxing here. I really don't think wanting to use the item you already have that is good and have its ability work for whatever spec you are is min/maxing. Min/maxing would be reforging your armor between every boss to optimize one spec for each encounter. But that would never happen... because there isn't any actual choice on the armor.

As I've said before literally the only reason you reforge armor is to use it for more than one spec. Changing your trait to work with your spec is not min/maxing. And for the last 6+ years it has just been so common sense that Blizzard made it happen automatically.

I would vastly prefer that Blizzard just fix their insanely bad decision to not have a "class" trait that automatically swaps when you swap specs. But as long as they don't fix that, reforging should cost nothing. If they fix that, reforging can cost whatever you want it to cost or be removed from the game entirely because it has no other function.

As an aside, it is also comedy to me all the people rolling with 340 gear dropping like candy from m0 and warfronts defending this sytem and laughing at people who want to play more than one spec despite the fact that being spec-locked in legion was a massive issue that everyone was up in arms about. As soon as the 340 ilvl army starts getting their 370s and 385s out of their loot boxes in a few weeks we'll see how many "lol just get more azerite armor" posts are left.

I predict that all these people on the "lul get more armor" bandwagon are going to suddenly be very upset with Blizzard when they are the one with the awesome 385 piece they can't use for multiple specs.
09/26/2018 08:04 PMPosted by Vharani
Having multiple sets of gear for different specs has been the norm forever.

Azerite traits are meant to be choices with at least a little bit of weight. Being able to change them effortlessly like talents would sort of make them redundant.


did it cost you 15k everytime you changed gear? that isn't an argument.
09/27/2018 11:54 AMPosted by Flashòck
I currently have..

2 sets for Boomy
1 set for Guardian
1 set for Restoration.

My reforge cost is 5g.

The reforge cost diminishes if you don't use it. It scares me to think that your friend WAS willing to even rack it up to 120k. They must've already paid 50k+ atleast lol

Read the rest of the thread. The only reason you have this much azerite armor is because you are not geared. 340 armor is farmable from many sources. 355/370/385 is not. As soon as you are geared this is no longer possible.

Feel free to report back when you have 4 full sets of 385 gear though.

Until then please stop claiming that farming more gear is a solution when it is fundamentally impossible to farm high level azerite armor. Thanks.
09/26/2018 08:04 PMPosted by Vharani
Having multiple sets of gear for different specs has been the norm forever.

Azerite traits are meant to be choices with at least a little bit of weight. Being able to change them effortlessly like talents would sort of make them redundant.


Not really. For years set bonuses changed automatically based on spec. All you needed was alt-spec trinkets/weapons. Some people may have had a more complete alt-set with different secondaries, but that wasn't necessary.

Azerite gear is a step backwards compared to the freedom that we had with sets that automatically changed for different specs. It would have been better if each spec got to select different traits per gear piece.
ITT: Because this terrible system works for my playstyle, I refuse to acknowledge that it could be a problem for other players.
09/27/2018 01:23 PMPosted by Zenetta
09/26/2018 08:04 PMPosted by Vharani
Having multiple sets of gear for different specs has been the norm forever.

Azerite traits are meant to be choices with at least a little bit of weight. Being able to change them effortlessly like talents would sort of make them redundant.


Not really. For years set bonuses changed automatically based on spec. All you needed was alt-spec trinkets/weapons. Some people may have had a more complete alt-set with different secondaries, but that wasn't necessary.

Azerite gear is a step backwards compared to the freedom that we had with sets that automatically changed for different specs. It would have been better if each spec got to select different traits per gear piece.

Thank-you. It is crazy to me that so many people have already forgotten that tier and primary stat has changed with your spec for almost half the time WoW has existed.

As I said before though I suspect they will suddenly remember that when they are the one with the 385 loot box azerite armor that they're not allowed to enjoy on their other specs.
09/26/2018 08:40 PMPosted by Cyouskin
Stop reforging and collect more gear.


If blizzard doesnt want ppl to reforge.. why do they even have it in the game. It feels awful to reforge, sub ends in 3 hours. yay.
Do people just forget that it took a while in legion at first to get your weapon built up?
09/27/2018 09:00 AMPosted by Dormog
09/26/2018 08:03 PMPosted by Dorgrodan
Our guilds main heal, who is also a druid, could not change is azurite trait, because it cost 120k gold.

This shouldn't be news to devs but druids like to change specs; run as tank heal or dps to help out our friends and guildmates run content. This is like beyond the pale...please fix this problem.

And no, a side set of non optimal gear is no answer, who is going to put on trash 340 to accomplish keys? You want to wear the gear you've earned.


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAA

Good. They deserve it for being that stupid.

Azerite Gear is easy to come by. Just keep multiple sets, its only three pieces for gods sake.
If azerite is so easy to come by why don't you have any good ones?
09/27/2018 05:26 PMPosted by Haiçh
09/27/2018 09:00 AMPosted by Dormog
...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAA

Good. They deserve it for being that stupid.

Azerite Gear is easy to come by. Just keep multiple sets, its only three pieces for gods sake.
If azerite is so easy to come by why don't you have any good ones?

Roasted.
I usually dont change anything after I pick the first trait but I can see how some hybrids with terrible rng could get screwed with this if they need to swap traits around often for their many roles.

I personally havent reforged more than once a week really because for me ( I just heal/MW ) once the traits are picked I dont need to change them. I have my dungeon and my raid sets and reforging just isnt something I need to do due to only playing the one spec.

In the end the cost being able to get that high is another screw up to add to the list for quality testing that wasnt done ( or was done poorly ) before launch. Old reforging/respec mostly, if not always, had a cap on it once you got to a certain amt and it wasnt too bad.

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