A huge problem with this community

General Discussion
Is the disconnect between its top players and its average players. I consider myself a decently serious Dungeoneer as far as things go but am met on the forums as being considered "average". Or even garbage.

Raider.IO has me ranked 13th on my server for my class but this isnt enough to put me into any kind of group where I get to talk about difficulty.

But who do you think is gonna complain about difficulty? The absolute best players?!!? Nothing is hard enough for Method. Nothing.

I am exactly who should complain about difficulty. I am good, but not amazing. I am dedicated, but not inundated. More importantly, I pug.

GD needs to stop with the 'git gud' nonsense. And Blizzard needs to stop gearing content towards the top percent of players. Its not just senseless, its unfair and a poor business model. How does adding Tyrranical/Fortified make sense with your business model at this point? Its simply made 1-9 dungeons less accessible to most players.

You want more for us to do, not less. And I gotta tell ya being frustrated isnt great either. Frustrating people isnt gonna help your sub numbers.

You wanna make something harder? Try warfronts. Dungeons were fine.
You should make your dungeon rating thread daily bud. It will make your content a lot better!
10/04/2018 09:30 PMPosted by Taironn
How does adding Tyrranical/Fortified make sense with your business model at this point?


10/04/2018 09:30 PMPosted by Taironn
git gud

These affixes are meant to make the dungeons more difficult as a consequence of their increased rewards. If you do not like handling the affixes, sit them out for a week or do Mythic 0.

10/04/2018 09:30 PMPosted by Taironn
the disconnect between its top players and its average players

is miniscule. Keystones adjust themselves to your group's ability. If you beat the timer, you get a more difficult dungeon. If you don't, you get an easier one. You are not a world first mythic raider, nor are you trying to be. You're not race changing for a 0.05% increase in DPS. The content is there for you, do it or don't.
10/04/2018 09:36 PMPosted by Tinúviel
. If you beat the timer, you get a more difficult dungeon. If you don't, you get an easier one. You are not a world first mythic raider, nor are you trying to be. You're not race changing for a 0.05% increase in DPS. The content is there for you, do it or don't.


So, explain why the increase in difficulty? Imo the dungeons are harder by themselves, before we even add in the Tyrannical/Fortified. The whole point is that I am telling you I am the player that I am and that they got harder and I dont like it.

Do you think they arent harder? Are you gonna justify that its better cause they are? Because I guarentee you these changes were not made 'for me' as you seem to be suggesting.
Im ranked 65th for Locks on my realm. And I spend a good hour just getting into a group for M+ each time.
I have no idea what my ranking is.. I don't much care.

Players are free to pursue whatever paths they want in wow.. to pay the price for that for whatever reward it gives.
10/04/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Taironn
So, explain why the increase in difficulty?

Do you realize how many people have complained for years that WoW is too easy? This is literally a difficulty scale, that you intentionally push to increase. You personally make the content more difficult. Willingly. By completing your keystones in time.

10/04/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Taironn
Imo the dungeons are harder by themselves, before we even add in the Tyrannical/Fortified.

That being the point.

10/04/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Taironn
The whole point is that I am telling you I am the player that I am and that they got harder and I dont like it.

This also being why you do lower level keys and Mythic 0. Keystones give you options.

10/04/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Taironn
Because I guarentee you these changes were not made 'for me' as you seem to be suggesting.

Keystones do not exist for your personal benefit. Clearly you do not want to do hard dungeons, so you should stop doing them.
10/04/2018 09:30 PMPosted by Taironn
How does adding Tyrranical/Fortified make sense with your business model at this point? Its simply made 1-9 dungeons less accessible to most players.


I read your whole message but I wanted to respond to this. So its a major adjustment, and made Mythic + alot more difficult. BUT this was a sound decision. You have to understand that the level of difficulty corresponds to the gear it drops. So think of it like this.
LFR and mythic 0 both drop 340. Both are easily* pugged. The higher you go it gets a little harder, you reach around +4 and you have your first affix (outside tyrannical/Fortified) and this drops 355 gear because its a little more challenging, requires more coordination, etc.

I know you understand this system, but the reason I'm pointing it out is because its important to the discussion. What blizzard did when they applied to fort/tyr to +2 and up is essentially compact the system. yes things are more challenging but you also get closer to cap than you did before after each success.

Furthermore Keystone dungeons were designed as an alternative end game activity to raiding. Giving you just as valuable reward, for similar level of effort. Something it failed at in legion, as it was relatively easy (especially compared to mythic raid) to complete the cap +15.

So while yes, it may not feel good to get stuck at +6 or +7 for several weeks, think of it like being stuck on a boss for several weeks. For a dungeoneer +10 would be the goal for end of season. Just like raiding it comes easier to some players rather than others. Keystones are designed to challenge a group of 5 players. With pugs you sacrifice coordination, and reliability, for ease of access and not having to maintain relationships with other players to run reliable groups. So yes, after a certain point, it becomes less pug friendly.
so you are left with 2 options, Keep struggling with pugs, or form relationships with the players you feel are good enough for your group and run regularly together.

Thats just, what the system is. If you wan't easy success just do mythic 0 dungeons, but you get out of it, what you put into it.
10/04/2018 09:48 PMPosted by Tinúviel
Keystones do not exist for your personal benefit. Clearly you do not want to do hard dungeons, so you should stop doing them.


Are you completely numb. Do you know what we are talking about?

Did the dungeons get harder from last expansion to this on? Yes or no.

Is that a good thing? Yes or no.

Christ GD is dense man.
10/04/2018 09:43 PMPosted by Taironn
10/04/2018 09:36 PMPosted by Tinúviel
. If you beat the timer, you get a more difficult dungeon. If you don't, you get an easier one. You are not a world first mythic raider, nor are you trying to be. You're not race changing for a 0.05% increase in DPS. The content is there for you, do it or don't.


So, explain why the increase in difficulty? Imo the dungeons are harder by themselves, before we even add in the Tyrannical/Fortified. The whole point is that I am telling you I am the player that I am and that they got harder and I dont like it.

Do you think they arent harder? Are you gonna justify that its better cause they are? Because I guarentee you these changes were not made 'for me' as you seem to be suggesting.


Your posts haven't made a lot of sense. You are mad that the best gear is reserved for the best players? Sounds like how it should work. You are mad that hard content gets harder when you push to make it harder? Wouldn't the simple solution would be to not push the harder and harder content. Are you mad at raider.io? In the era of buying dungeon and raid carries, you gotta find something to distinguish between people.

Personally, I don't do a lot of Mythic + dungeons. I don't even have raider.io installed. I think the highest key I completed was a +4 before my guild was up and raiding. Since then, I think I did a +2 with a friend. That said, I have a guildies who runs a lot of Mythic + runs every day. He does so because he enjoys pushing harder and harder content in the five mans. Seems like people are getting more to do, but you are upset that you aren't one of the people who can do them. That is what we call a "you" problem.

Want to know how to get better? Ask that question. Want to know what you are doing wrong in the dungeons? Tell people what you are doing, and where the problem begins. What you are doing is not either of those things.
10/04/2018 09:59 PMPosted by Farajah
Seems like people are getting more to do, but you are upset that you aren't one of the people who can do them. That is what we call a "you" problem.


You people are addicted! No one can muster anything other then 'you are bad'. Look at my IO you tit. I am not struggling to get things done.

The dungeons got harder. That is bad.

^respond to this without telling me to git gud.
Method down Mythic Ghuun with a majority of the group in the 372-377ilvl range. Limit and Method both got him to under 4% with under 370 gear (368ish). Beating the boss at that ilvl took extreme coordination on the top guild parts. I'd say a lot of guilds who down the boss these next couple of months will be rocking ilvls between 378-390. You'd be surprised at how much a boss changes with more item level. That being said, no I don't think the game should be made easier. As for dungeons I can definitely see, to an extent, where you are coming from. But it 100% has to do with affixes. There has been only 1 week so far that I thought "wow this is absolute bull !@#$" and that of course was when Fortified, Teeming, Quaking, and Infested were stacked. M+ also can be pugged, of course, but runs much more smoothly with a guild or group of friends who are good at the game. When I pug I can sometimes fail to beat an 8 in time, however when I'm with my group of friends who I have a M+ community with we can down 10s and 11s no issue with timer.

TLDR: Game shouldn't be made easier, try joining a guild or getting solid group of friends who are good at the game for m+.
Why pug? I've had only a handful of good pug M+ experiences.

Every really good M+ I've done was with 4 other players in my guild. I've been invited to do M+ that I wasn't even half-geared enough for. They do it out of kindness. If your guild doesn't do M+, there are certainly communities that do.
I think the issue is less to do with the disconnect but more specifically your situation and the level of player you are. You sound like the person between Casual and Hardcore and on top of that you PUG. You are asking for blizz to make fairly challenging content that is also relatively doable for PUGs on a regular basis.

The problem with all of that is at some point the difficulty becomes more about team coordination rather than individual skill in the group. There is a limit to how much you can make a raid or dungeon mechanic all that threatening from an individual perspective and still be achievable. At some point the difficulty for all of this is going to be from team mechanics, people soaking with another, players separating when they should, etc. And PUGs are not known for great team coordination.
The mountains upon mountains of issues with the WoW community and THAT'S what you hone in on?
10/04/2018 10:23 PMPosted by Taironn
10/04/2018 09:59 PMPosted by Farajah
Seems like people are getting more to do, but you are upset that you aren't one of the people who can do them. That is what we call a "you" problem.


You people are addicted! No one can muster anything other then 'you are bad'. Look at my IO you tit. I am not struggling to get things done.

The dungeons got harder. That is bad.

^respond to this without telling me to git gud.


Making the dungeons easier wouldn't change anything to do with your complaint except more people would be dealing with harder affixes. If you make a +7 as hard as a +4 now you will still be stuck at a certain difficulty level and with more affixes. M+ is very accessible. Get gud.
Read the title and was going to suggest that the problem is we’re pretty mean to one another.

Although, the disparity between the bourgeoisie and proletariat dugoneers is another problem I suppose.
Honestly, I have been PuG'ing for years. Now? I am beginning to loathe it. Thankfully, reaching heroic content (and mythic on my monk) has led to barriers to entry that make it less likely to run into turds...but still. It's been quite a nightmare to PuG in the last two expansions.
Something you need to know urgently about raider io...
1: Don't look at realm rankings, they are pointless. You could be #10 on your realm and #300 on another. Go to world rankings
2: Class rankings are also a bad indicator, look amongst all tanks/healers/dps. Like for example, the best resto shaman is wayyyy below the first mistweaver or resto druid. Its also self explanatory how badly balanced classes are for m+.
3: Your score usually doesn't mean anything, the better people want to know what's your highest key run and if it's on time. Good players don't always have all the time to farm keys, and do one or two high ones and call it a week.
I hope these help, have fun pushing (sorry if you feel like !@#$ now that you're comparing raider io to the rest of the world instead of your own comfort zone)
10/04/2018 09:48 PMPosted by Snowfox
I have no idea what my ranking is.. I don't much care.

Players are free to pursue whatever paths they want in wow.. to pay the price for that for whatever reward it gives.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum