Affliction has two fundamental flaws(long)

Warlock
10/01/2018 11:22 PMPosted by Delofasht
Basically, either decouple Soul Shards and Damage, or make shard production be generated by our filler so we can then use it as needed for consistent results.

That's a pretty good TLDR. SS generation through filler won't solve the issue completely unless we have another SS snipping tool, but it would help.

Current state, as long as UA is tied to soul shards then using shards for almost anything else will be a significant DPS loss. If you couldn't stack UA and/or just dump excess shards into UA that would be another story.

10/02/2018 12:18 AMPosted by Abnormality
You are the first person I have ever read since the change that wants Life Tap back.

You clearly weren't here when it was removed from alpha. One difference between me and those who only want it to return is that I do see the reasoning behind why it was removed; life tap was pointless and unfun from a rotational standpoint. If blizz were to revamp lifetap so that it feels good to press again, then everyone would be happy.

10/02/2018 06:24 AMPosted by Wyldeth
I feel your ideas would complicate the class beyond what I would find fun.
Complexity is not an issue and lack of it has been a common complaint since legion. Complexity can breed clunkiness however which is not appealing. The changes I suggested would be primarily for utility and were present in a similar form back in MoP, which many considered the golden age for warlocks. The real metric would be what blizz would decide to fill the rotational gap with.

For me, the only thing I don’t like about BFA affliction is any of the playstyle options other than death bolt are dps losses.

Make shadowbolt hit harder and insta cast when UA is on a target. Make drain soul have a minor dot amplifier during regular hp and major dot amplifier during execute phase and I feel like all 3 would be viable and allow for diversity.

I agree I'd like to see them brought in line, but that won't happen as long as UA serves as a high-DPS shard dump. Otherwise, you'll always run into two situations(ignoring deathbolt):
Drain Soul DPS is comparable to Nightfall on single target: Drain Soul will always be taken because the presence of any adds will make DPS skyrocket.
Drain Soul DPS is comparable to Nightfall when adds are present: Nightfall will always be taken as in situations where adds are not present DS won't be able to compete.

I've thought of a few alternative ways SB and DS could be brought more in line, but the balancing methods would be slightly convoluted and would require many changes to existing spells and talents.

Having the proc be automatic...

I like feeling at least somewhat in control of things.

...What?
10/02/2018 08:39 AMPosted by Richardd
I've thought of a few alternative ways SB and DS could be brought more in line, but the balancing methods would be slightly convoluted and would require many changes to existing spells and talents.
Which is why i have always said that leave Shadowbolt to the Demonology, as we have survived more years without Shadowbolt and still worked well.

I like choices, and people should have fun playing what they like. The problem is Shadowbolt vs Drain Soul affected the fundamental of our spec, and so far bringing it back doesn't improve matters in any significant way.

More people are using Shadowbolt now, yes. But that's because they are primarily using Deathbolt, with Shadowbolt being the 'side effect' since you can't have Drain Soul with Deathbolt.

Arguably i seen way more Afflock using Drain Soul than Nightfall - which is ironic, because isn't that instant-bolt the very reason 'old school' Locks can't let go of Shadowbolt? The biggest irony however, is if you swap to Demonology now: not only you have Shadowbolt, you even have an instant cast Demonbolt that hits hard, even harder than Nightfall-bonus.

So the question - why insist to bring back Shadowbolt to Affliction, when the other spec that is using Shadowbolt is giving you exactly what you wanted all along?
10/02/2018 11:05 PMPosted by Fairyland
10/02/2018 08:39 AMPosted by Richardd
I've thought of a few alternative ways SB and DS could be brought more in line, but the balancing methods would be slightly convoluted and would require many changes to existing spells and talents.
Which is why i have always said that leave Shadowbolt to the Demonology, as we have survived more years without Shadowbolt and still worked well.

I like choices, and people should have fun playing what they like. The problem is Shadowbolt vs Drain Soul affected the fundamental of our spec, and so far bringing it back doesn't improve matters in any significant way.

More people are using Shadowbolt now, yes. But that's because they are primarily using Deathbolt, with Shadowbolt being the 'side effect' since you can't have Drain Soul with Deathbolt.

Arguably i seen way more Afflock using Drain Soul than Nightfall - which is ironic, because isn't that instant-bolt the very reason 'old school' Locks can't let go of Shadowbolt? The biggest irony however, is if you swap to Demonology now: not only you have Shadowbolt, you even have an instant cast Demonbolt that hits hard, even harder than Nightfall-bonus.

So the question - why insist to bring back Shadowbolt to Affliction, when the other spec that is using Shadowbolt is giving you exactly what you wanted all along?


what the !@#$ are you even talking about

/thread
10/03/2018 01:14 AMPosted by Reckoner
what the !@#$ are you even talking about

/thread
If you can't be bothered to read long posts, here's a simple sentence:

Go back to Drain Soul baseline, scrap Shadow Bolt.

In the immortal words of Ion "Destroyer" Hazzikostas: If you want to play Shadowbolt, Demonology is there for you.

And we just bump 15% on Shadowbolt, just for Demonology™ only.
Drains are way more boring than pushing my Shadowbolt button repeatedly. Anyone who played before MoP probably agrees, drains are as dry an uninteresting as it comes. Now, if they make the filler generate shards, each one becomes much more interesting. Of course doing so makes Agony less interesting once again, but that could be solved by having it have synergy with the other spells in the spellbook. Such effects could include any of a n7mber of utility effects that we are often wishing we had, and could be applied to the target or the caster when apply Agony on targets already affect by our Corruption. Thinking Agony on corrupted targets slows them by 30% for 3 seconds. . . Harder to walk when one is in Agony yeah?

UA really needs to dump all shards at once when cast, and be bigger and harder hitting at that point (though not as strong as all 5 being up on a target as now, because we will have better shard production with the above mentioned filler shard generation method). This semi RNG dot based shard production sucks so bad, is so boring and uninteresting, and needs to be changed already, we have dealt with it long enough already.
10/03/2018 03:02 AMPosted by Delofasht
Drains are way more boring than pushing my Shadowbolt button repeatedly. Anyone who played before MoP probably agrees, drains are as dry an uninteresting as it comes.
That is a matter of personal perception, which isn't wrong, but it is completely subjective to each individual.

There's equally a lot of people who liked drains, which the forum itself has bear evidence to that. I started warlock from vanilla, and i think drains are far more interesting and theme fitting than Shadowbolt.

What doesn't change is the fact that there's little to zero benefit from using Shadowbolt, because apparently even when Nightfall is going up against Drain Soul - there's still more people using Drain Soul, even when Nightfall is mathematically 'better'.

Let's don't start on Deathbolt. No one picks Deathbolt because they want to keep using Shadowbolt.

Maybe it is a long shot, but if they really want to keep Shadowbolt/Drain Soul being options - it should be using a different system, like say talk to our class trainer and pick which spell we want, while the talents are customized to work with both option.
10/03/2018 01:35 AMPosted by Fairyland
10/03/2018 01:14 AMPosted by Reckoner
what the !@#$ are you even talking about

/thread
If you can't be bothered to read long posts, here's a simple sentence:

Go back to Drain Soul baseline, scrap Shadow Bolt.

In the immortal words of Ion "Destroyer" Hazzikostas: If you want to play Shadowbolt, Demonology is there for you.

And we just bump 15% on Shadowbolt, just for Demonology™ only.


No, it's mostly that not a single word in that post made sense, like at all.
Which doesn't make sense?

That we have survived longer without Shadowbolt?

The fact that almost no one picks Nightfall, even when it is a 'better' talent than Drain Soul?

Or you're saying people pick Deathbolt because they want to keep using Shadowbolt?
OP seems to not have stepped into a raid or high M+ this expansion, so personally i'm not quite sure his opinion is much to dwell on.
10/03/2018 08:15 AMPosted by Reckoner
No, it's mostly that not a single word in that post made sense, like at all.


Their post was coherent, rational, and articulated. Maybe you just disagree with it, but you're probably just trolling.

10/03/2018 08:31 AMPosted by Házey
OP seems to not have stepped into a raid or high M+ this expansion, so personally i'm not quite sure his opinion is much to dwell on.


1. My warlock isn't my main, and I'm currently focusing on rep-grinding
2. Designing a class solely around end-game grouped PVE content is how you end up like shadow priests
3. I'm honestly a little impressed you decided to look at my profile rather than read my post. Maybe impressed is the wrong word, but it's definitely... something.
10/03/2018 09:02 AMPosted by Richardd
10/03/2018 08:15 AMPosted by Reckoner
No, it's mostly that not a single word in that post made sense, like at all.


Their post was coherent, rational, and articulated. Maybe you just disagree with it, but you're probably just trolling.

10/03/2018 08:31 AMPosted by Házey
OP seems to not have stepped into a raid or high M+ this expansion, so personally i'm not quite sure his opinion is much to dwell on.


1. My warlock isn't my main, and I'm currently focusing on rep-grinding
2. Designing a class solely around end-game grouped PVE content is how you end up like shadow priests
3. I'm honestly a little impressed you decided to look at my profile rather than read my post. Maybe impressed is the wrong word, but it's definitely... something.


No I read it, and I believe that most things are pretty out there that you suggest. I guess assuming this was your main because you’re posting on the warlock forums? Idk just me. Affliction is not perfect, personally I believe this version of affliction is better than legions. Personally as well as a few other warlocks I know.

I don’t browse here too often, mostly stick to the warlock discord so maybe I’m in the minority on my opinion who knows, but I don’t think that warlocks are nearly as bad as you make it out to be.
10/03/2018 09:19 AMPosted by Házey
10/03/2018 09:02 AMPosted by Richardd
...

Their post was coherent, rational, and articulated. Maybe you just disagree with it, but you're probably just trolling.

...

1. My warlock isn't my main, and I'm currently focusing on rep-grinding
2. Designing a class solely around end-game grouped PVE content is how you end up like shadow priests
3. I'm honestly a little impressed you decided to look at my profile rather than read my post. Maybe impressed is the wrong word, but it's definitely... something.


No I read it, and I believe that most things are pretty out there that you suggest. I guess assuming this was your main because you’re posting on the warlock forums? Idk just me. Affliction is not perfect, personally I believe this version of affliction is better than legions. Personally as well as a few other warlocks I know.

I don’t browse here too often, mostly stick to the warlock discord so maybe I’m in the minority on my opinion who knows, but I don’t think that warlocks are nearly as bad as you make it out to be.

Fair enough, and while we lost some things from Legion we also gained a few things so preferring current state is a perfectly reasonable stance.

My issues with the spec have existed prior to BFA, they are just more obvious now. It isn't an issue with raw numbers or raids/dungeons, but with the feel of the spec. Our playstyle is not very engaging and people have been complaining since Legion about UA stacking. Additionally the spec has been over-pruned and lacks the depth it once had.
OP said everything I wanted to say and some things I didn't know I wanted to say.

And well-written. My primary topic of emphasis is having the ability to make the class or rotation more complex if desired. Aff isn't in a bad place now, but even the more complex builds could use some complexity.

Search function brought me here. BTW, search function doesn't work very well.
id be happy with the way aff played out if I didn't spend half my time casting SB. Give us some way to remedy that, preferably something skill-testing because aff is pretty braindead right now compared to what it should be, a fairly nuanced and challenging DPS spec.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum