BM PvP nerfs were too much

Hunter
And for the love of god FIX Intimidation....Our pets will randomly use it on a nearby enemy instead of who we want...And people taunting our pets....
10/12/2018 10:07 PMPosted by Silentsnipe
And for the love of god FIX Intimidation....Our pets will randomly use it on a nearby enemy instead of who we want...And people taunting our pets....


I’ve had this happen a lot recently especially against other hunters even when it seems like the pet is hitting the hunter. I have a hard time believing they are growling my pet at the exact same time I hit the intimidation button. I even mash the kill command button macroed with /petattack before I hit it to try to prevent that from happening and it has still happened.

Would rather they just make the stun an insta cast shot. 40 yard range stun sounds OP but after all the damage nerfs I feel it is validated. Would help BM a lot with traps.
I rolled hunter to be the physical ranged class. I wanted to pvp as a ranged class. Mm was never viable for pvp and bm got nerfed too hard. Now that left me in a awkward position by forcing me to switch to survival and play a melee class for pvp. Please blizzard the hunter is supposed to be a ranged class not melee. WoW is over saturated with melee classes. Please make mm or bm viable again.
10/02/2018 09:52 PMPosted by Preacherjim
10/02/2018 06:32 PMPosted by Mýpâth
...

The nerf did effect kill command. Most people dont understand exactly how big blanket nerfing pet damage on a spec where all the damage goes through pets is.

Cobra shot, barbed shot, and chimera shot were the only 3 spells I can think of that weren't effected.


If it did affect kill command and crows then why did the tooltips for both show the same damage before and after last weeks Tuesday reset?


It doesn't show on the tooltip because it didn't get applied to PvE so they didnt change the tooltip.
10/02/2018 06:02 PMPosted by Carthy
Instead of flat nerfing the pet damage blizzard should have moved the damage to the hunter abilities. Kill Command and Cobra shot for instance.


So much this, but Blizzard would have to ignore the continued misperceptions that the pets do all the damage from forum qq. It's so weird that a melee spec is the premier spec for hunters.
10/13/2018 11:06 AMPosted by Spookyboogey
10/02/2018 09:52 PMPosted by Preacherjim
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If it did affect kill command and crows then why did the tooltips for both show the same damage before and after last weeks Tuesday reset?


It doesn't show on the tooltip because it didn't get applied to PvE so they didnt change the tooltip.


Nah , you’re wrong, bestial wrath changes from 25 to 20 percent when you enter instanced pvp.
BM hunter does need a buff in PvP. At least 20% overall dmg and we will be in a decent spot again.

They messed up bad..
Revert the 18% nerf I could live with the 2 other ones.
18% was the final nail...but bm is still barely alive. Rather than the damage return id like to see a bit more kiting potential returned. At most revert 10% of the damage to pets back instead of the full 18%. But return our ability to trap on our own at high rating...right now bm can be sat on way to hard by dh war comp with no ability to get away sucessfully while the pet dies same time by cleave damage then you just flop. At this point concussive shot should hit muti targets at the rate these mongo cleaves are just able to zerg next to eachother. Shorten disengauge timer by 5 seconds or lengthen the freedom on post haste again. But return our ability to trap for ourselves is a must. No other class has to rely on other partners so much just to land their cc. As bm trap is very unforgiving now. Yes intimidate stun into trap only works when pet doesnt have blizzs .6 second lag on pet commands and listens when you tell it too...also pet has to come off target for 10 seconds just to get the damn stun into trap...at which time all pressure is lost...very clunky design...further trap is very punishing as it can be premonitioned by priest/deathed, ground by sham (if you arent close enough to bait his ground with a charge at him first which is sometimes in the melee ocolypse impossible), pally can sac it, pets can eat the trap, even lock ports can, monks can roll it, and druids to fast if they are good and avoid it easily...traps are punishing by design...but its a hunter thing...i just miss scatter shot, or binding stun, and or wyvern sting...id settle for almost any option at this point...masters call baseline...maybe a real kill shot...and animal handler actually wotking as a dps upgrade...and aspect of wild off the damn global would be nice for a smoothness return...
10/04/2018 04:35 AMPosted by Tinkerrific
Everyone was saying BM was broken

"Broken" means they couldn't dominate it like they were used to. Like everyone else could in legion.

Of course, they ignore the possibility that maybe their spec was the broken one and got fixed properly.


all 1200 hks give you that wonderful insight?
I'd like to know the rationale behind the most recent 18% pet damage nerf.
BM representation on the arena ladder wasn't impressive before that nerf, with survival far and away outperforming BM.
The meta revolves offensively around cc chains coupled with burst and defensively around being able to peel and stop these chains or all-ins. BM is incredibly bad at peeling, having only slows and a single 1-minute cd stun to try to stop damage going into other people. BM doesn't have access either to the diamond ice pvp talent that surv has, which allows freezing trap to be used as a fairly consistent peel (it's not otherwise since that's a no-brainer dispel from a healer) nor to surv tracker's net or their harpoon root. We bring extremely little to a team defensively.
As it stands, we ALSO bring extremely little to a team offensively. Our damage output is bad. It's very, very low, and it's not bursty at all. I'm very well geared, I'm an above-average player, and I keep very good uptime in arenas. My damage is incredibly negligible to enemy healers until deep dampening (where everyone's damage matters). Having high uptime before then doesn't mean anything if your damage isn't causing pressure, and having so little in the way of ability to help out teammates during enemy go's (I can roar someone, intimidate a guy, and drop a tar/explosive - you're mostly on your own after that) while having such sad damage otherwise is just really, really frustrating.
Mages don't tend to do very much overall damage right now, but they put out damage *when it's needed*, and they do that while bringing a whole hell of a lot to the team in terms of peel and cc. And that's what matters in the game right now - damage when it's needed.

Am I off base? I'd been concerned about BM's potential before the 18% nerf pet damage nerf - surv was clearly the better spec by most metrics and evidenced by results on the ladders. I'd just want to know the rationale.
The rationale is that lots of people complained about BM, and very few complained about Survival. So, even after the 2nd round of nerfs, they decided BM needed that 18% hit. Not based on data, or logic, or numbers, but on forum outcry.
If that's true that would be incredibly depressing.
Is that true though?
I wish Blizzard would put commentary on their class balance changes. It's extremely frustrating to be completely in the dark when it comes to the reasoning behind so many class tuning changes.
People don't want to have to reroll to be playable at gladiator-level because their class was run into the ground without even a word as to why.
Out of the three rounds of nerfs, it's this last one that was just a kick in the gut - the first one was fine and I think perfectly justifiable, and about half of the second one I think was good to put BM into a good but not terribly strong place. But the second nerf DID go a little far - which was reflected in the ladders and when you look at what's desirable in the meta - and the most recent 18% pet damage nerf was just killing the spec in competitive arena.
The changes are so fast and rampant this xpac I have stopped putting in effort to gear PvP specific azurite traits or in general giving a F%&K. You get the right line up and they nerf it to useless. BM was fun again and now … we're a joke. This is the cycle for the launch phase of HOW many xpacs? Like MOP, at the beginning we were very strong … nerfed to utter trash by the end of season 2. At least then we got a full season. And you can straight PISS OFF with play Survival. I would love to … IF it was the OLD KITING SV spec of glory! Not this melee abomination ...
Most of surv damage is ranged, and they're really pretty good at kiting.
It's a weird, in-and-out style spec that has a lot of dynamism to the gameplay. It's just not what I want to play though - I don't want to play a dancing spec. I want to play a hunter spec that's ranged and whose ideal circumstance and incentives are to always be out of melee with the brawlers when you can manage it.
If being able to deal damage is a problem, then give us some actually impactful tools - make interlope have a 40 yard range for the pet to eat spells. Give us diamond ice or tracker's net. If we need to be a low-but-constant damage class in terms of offense, then give us some tools that let us survive until deep dampening - where that facet of "constant" actually begins to matter - if we play well. As it stands, our damage is lower and less threatening than a shadow priest's while we're not nearly as tanky, we bring WAY less defensively (if this needs to actually be made explicit I'll make the comparisons - it's rather extreme) to a team, and we have significantly worse cc setup and kill options (1 minute cd stun and a 30 second magical trap vs fear, a 45 second cd stun, mind control, and a silence).
BM really has no place in high rated arena right now - it's lacking in every dimension except being good at kiting for oneself, which even there surv is strictly superior at doing.
We finally had some big hits that made it hard for melee to ranged stun us then tear us apart with huge melee hits. Since they gave melee SOOOOO much gap closing kiting is basically a joke on a hunter. I also wish they would get rid of the nerfs. But I'm also very sick of being stunned in mid air while disengaging 15 yds away from a warrior because he gets to have a ranged stun. I get that not having any gap closers would make killing a hunter very hard, but ffs when the amount of gap closers equals the amount of kiting power i have it makes my kiting abilities worth literally nothing, while giving the benefit to the melee.
That and the scaling is off. Im criting for the same amount with 5700 agil as I did with 4700. Thats not right. We get damage nerfs cause people complain but pallies get to keep all their cheap !@# bullcrap. its not fair
Ive sat in q at 2k cr in 2v2 and 1900cr in 3v3 for a week now as bm. Ive had 2 groups join me in a week of hard qing lfg in 3v3 and 0 healers at that cr q up. No one seems to want a bm. The first comments from a ret that joined was wait ur not playing survival...oh well this will suck probably...then the guy couldnt land a hoj for me to trap off of to save his life...in turn dropped a few games...another team went bad just after for a few more losses. Now i just sit in q at 1900mmr in 3s waiting and remembering when i used to get to play arena on alliance...oh the good ole arena days...now in 2v2 i q into 3000 rogues, 400 warriors, an enhance or 2, 100 more demon hunters and frost mage eand survival hunters...thats the new wow fotm it seems...oh and dpriest hpal rdruid...
We have more kiting tools than melee have tools to reach us. Warriors don't spec double charge because you give up stormbolt to do so, so if you start at ranged they can charge you once, which you can disengage, and if they leap you can explosive trap or master's call -> cheeta while laying down a tar or using conc shot. The only melee class that you can't effectively almost permanently kite outside of situations where they get to walk into melee with you for free (can happen when you need to push in on a pillar because they're los'ing you) is demon hunters, and even then you can still stop a good amount of their uptime.
Our ability to kite is not the issue - it's our uselessness that's the issue. BM doesn't have to be played around at all - we don't do anything that causes teams to feel pressure, because our disruption options are very poor and predictable and our damage is now completely negligible.
Our one current strength - the ability to kite for ourselves - doesn't amount to much at all, because a BM hunter is typically not the kill or pressure target. Hitting the BM doesn't stop much of their damage, they're harder to stick to than other potential targets a BM is going to be playing with, and a BM being free to run around doesn't lead to problems since their disruptive tools are so predictable and poor (relative to other classes) and both their burst damage and sustained damage is really just sad.
Agree with the above, pvp is all about burst and we have very little, I’m 373 item level and kc critting for 12k in pvp...sure we have good dps in raids due to 100% mobility and uptime but that isn’t the case in pvp where we are los’d or cc’d so the brief windows where we can pew pew we just can’t put out pressure...meanwhile melee gets a 6 sec window and you go from 100>0
We have no burst. That's my only issue.

There are other classes who lack burst like a boomy even survivals burst isn't amazing but these specs have amazing utility. At the same time survival has amazing sustained and boomkin has amazing spread.

BM doesn't check any boxes for what's viable in arena.

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