Hotfixes Oct 2. shows class design is a mess

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I don't think balance is spot on right now and I believe that's more to how a few classes are playing rather than the numbers that they're tuned with.

But for the love of god we can't expect balance to be perfect, as flawed as it currently is there are a few unviable classes that clearly need buffs but the upper half of them at least have something going for them, even some of the lower halve ones just need a number tuning

and if you think this stuff is easy to balance it's bloody not, the balance needs to change from the start of a patch to the end of it because not all class gains 100 damage to 1ilvl increase or some magic formula like that

Maybe if you every didnt feel like there needed to be 120 ilvl difference from the moment you ding 120 to getting max gear this game would be easier to balance
and it looks like they are fixing the problem, or at least attempting. so we complain when there is an issue, then they admit it and go to fix it, now we complain that it isn't fast enough
10/03/2018 10:42 AMPosted by Drezwazluz
10/03/2018 10:27 AMPosted by Hamstar
wind gusts


You raid lfr. You can stand on the far side of the room and use a single movement ability up to heroic and be fine with fire.

10/03/2018 10:27 AMPosted by Hamstar
laser fields


There are no lasers on lfr or normal. There is one, on heroic, two on mythic. You can look down below you, and stand in the place that has no lasers through it. That is not enough movement to drop other specs so far.

And you just ignored fetid?


You think people are talking about LFR damage?
10/03/2018 10:33 AMPosted by Argorwal
...

Like wind gusts and laser fields? The only time BM pulls ahead is if other people do not have 100% up time. We don't do more damage, it is just everyone else does less. So then a blanket nerf really hurts in everything else.


Doesn't that sorta make sense for being the only spec with full 100% uptime?

Maybe that is the part that needs changed?


Not really an issue for BM hunters to shine on a couple fights. Blizzard sure didn't care on target changing fights or fights that caused our pets to bug out.
10/02/2018 09:47 PMPosted by Khelehk
Class design has failed this expansion.

Feral gutted.

Shaman gutted.

Warrior gutted.

And all classes are generally completely unfun to play.


demonology is immense fun.
10/03/2018 10:59 AMPosted by Hamstar
You think people are talking about LFR damage?


I think you are. I also noted for every difficulty. But you don't actually care, your damage is low and it's totally not your fault it's your spec, we all believe and support you. (smile and wave, boys)
...

Doesn't that sorta make sense for being the only spec with full 100% uptime?

Maybe that is the part that needs changed?


Not really an issue for BM hunters to shine on a couple fights. Blizzard sure didn't care on target changing fights or fights that caused our pets to bug out.


Demo says Hi, mother is nightmare for demo. My felguard tends to not want to take orders unless I call him to me *Before* going through the wall, because otherwise he just derps on the boss the entire time.
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Just a heads up.
That is not actually because of GCD changes.
That's because they lowered the amount of stat percent you get from secondaries by half, in an attempt to prevent the insane scaling out of control.

Typically, when people talk about the GCD changes, they are talking about adding spells to the GCD that historically never were - like Wings.
What else was added for Ret? It's been a while since I checked in on that spec.

Anyway, its a problem pretty easily solved with Haste. I'm pretty sure that's their best stat right now right?

I've already reached 20 percent a few times with little care for stacking the stat. Imagine what it will be like a year from now.


You're being way to dissmisive. Pretty much every classes best stat is haste because of how fast paced the gameplay still is from the enviorment stand point yet we are struggling to keep up. It's almost always better to have a haste+x state vs anything else for most classes.


I don't think he's being dismissive. I just think it is an entirely different argument you're trying to apply to what he's saying. Haste levels do feel terrible across the board. GCD changes here and there make that feel worse (waiting longer on a GCD typically reduced by haste).

I think the clear answer is to just increase base haste for everyone or some specific classes. At any rate, none of this is a balance issue when you say "every classes"
10/02/2018 08:02 PMPosted by Kozzae
One thing I have learned over the years, balance is not always easy.


Not with favoritism is isn't :P
10/03/2018 11:03 AMPosted by Drezwazluz
10/03/2018 10:59 AMPosted by Hamstar
You think people are talking about LFR damage?


I think you are. I also noted for every difficulty. But you don't actually care, your damage is low and it's totally not your fault it's your spec, we all believe and support you. (smile and wave, boys)


So now you are just trolling? Nobody cares what the damage is in LFR. People were complaining about BM on 3 fights that we have high up time vs. others. It has nothing to do with our normal damage output as you see on other fights.
Anyway, the only thing different it seems this expansion is that they're actually iterating on balance constantly via hotfix. Or does nobody remember when you just hoped that your spec would become viable in a future patch? Below cutting edge mythic, I can't think of any spec not viable. Some need some love to fix the awkwardness of how they play (probably mostly shaman/priest dps)

10/03/2018 11:21 AMPosted by Brutalistica
10/02/2018 08:02 PMPosted by Kozzae
One thing I have learned over the years, balance is not always easy.


Not with favoritism is isn't :P

Hmmm?
The only spec I agree on flat % fixes on is Demonology, its a really fun spec now, none of the abilities should change.

But Elemental and Frost DK need the same overhaul, no amount of flat % changes is going to fix them.
10/03/2018 10:42 AMPosted by Drezwazluz
And you just ignored fetid?


What about Fetid?

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19#boss=2128&difficulty=4

#7 on heroic
#11 on mytic

Is there something I am missing where you think that is out of place?
That means fire has been buffed a flat 11% to all damage in the past few weeks. Which is wild to me.
I appreciate you noticed the obvious, apparently blizz can't see it :(
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Doesn't that sorta make sense for being the only spec with full 100% uptime?

Maybe that is the part that needs changed?


Not really an issue for BM hunters to shine on a couple fights. Blizzard sure didn't care on target changing fights or fights that caused our pets to bug out.


What rank "should" BM be at for each boss in your mind?

You seem quite dissatisfied at upper to mid pack.
10/03/2018 11:29 AMPosted by Mightylink
Frost DK need the same overhaul, no amount of flat % changes is going to fix them.


Frost is easily one of the top 3 dps specs in the game right now.
10/03/2018 10:48 AMPosted by Syngyn
10/03/2018 10:33 AMPosted by Argorwal
Doesn't that sorta make sense for being the only spec with full 100% uptime?


It's only 100% up time for 60% of the damage which is if the pet is functioning properly. The other 40% of wet noodles coming from the "mobile" Hunter (depending on talent choice too) isn't that great of a trade off. Particularly when it accounts to a miniscule advantage only when, like Hamster says, the higher damage haven't mastered mechanics.

BM Hunters get no bonus from standing still either. So basically going BM means you are trading good damage for mobility and damage that basically only looks good until everyone else has the movement patterns down.

I'm sure Hunter players would kill for another Ranged spec to play beyond BM that wasn't a total mechanical mess.

To OP, buff cycles don't make Class Design bad, bad Class developers make Class Design bad.


"No bonus from standing still" can easily be reworded as "No penalty for moving"

100% uptime is referring to no lost dps from any movement or mechanics.

Melee lose dps when they are off the boss.

Ranged lose dps when they have to move.

BM can do their full rotation while moving and always be in range of the boss. It's something unique to BM.

Maybe that's the part some players want changed? Others seem to like it.
The most depressing thing is they seemed to have given up on examining the core issues underlying some specs in favor of just giving across the board buffs or nerfs by a percentage to try and balance the specs, unless they plan on completing full-on reworks after making across the board changes already for many specs.
10/03/2018 11:47 AMPosted by Drezwazluz
10/03/2018 11:29 AMPosted by Mightylink
Frost DK need the same overhaul, no amount of flat % changes is going to fix them.


Frost is easily one of the top 3 dps specs in the game right now.


They were not talking about numerically. Frost plays like crap

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