As a casual player, I'm unsubbing with my friends and here is why

General Discussion
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09/28/2018 09:20 PMPosted by Lokath
09/28/2018 09:07 PMPosted by Rêmedi
...

It's not my job to make Blizzard's game fun for the majority. The fact remains that a majority aren't having fun when it comes to end-game and they can hit the design board to figure out why. All that I'm required to give; if anything, is feedback. Not a solution, that will likely fall upon deaf ears anyways.


Then you are part of the problem.

Be part of the solution.


They are paid very well to come up with fun, engaging, and challenging content. They, who are designing almost every aspect of this game around Ion's almighty /time played metric, are the problem. Most certainly not the players. Surely you must be trying for green text with that silly comment, no? If not I worry for you.

/smacks forehead
09/28/2018 08:36 PMPosted by Rêmedi
09/28/2018 08:34 PMPosted by Lokath
Try to make your points clear and concise.

The developers respond better to actionable feedback.


My points are clear enough, I'd be happy to break it down for you if English isn't your native language


09/28/2018 09:20 PMPosted by Aedalynne
He said a lot more than that. I know it's not enough for you, and you expected that he owes you, a total stranger, a tens of thousands of words treatise on everything that is wrong,


The OP's points are not clear, they are not specific and they are not actionable.

Nobody wants tens of thousands of words, honestly fewer words are better.

For example the line "island expeditions are boring" means nothing.

Do they take too long?
Are the islands too big?
Are they too small?
Are there too many monsters?
Is it boring because you think there are too few monsters?
Are there too few rares?
Do you not like mining ore?
Are you playing as a healer but they too DSP heavy so you don't get to heal?
Are the mechanics too confusing?
Are the mechanics too simplistic?
Is the terrain to difficult to navigate?
Are the rewards non-commensurate with the effort?

The OP did not even specify which island expedition difficulty he was doing?

Saying something is boring is worthless statement if you want the devs to make things better.
09/29/2018 05:51 AMPosted by Zaranthosdk
09/28/2018 08:34 PMPosted by Lokath
Try to make your points clear and concise.

The developers respond better to actionable feedback.


I really had no problem seeing what they didn't like based on what was written. If getting hung up by a tree branch crossing a bridge on your mount is annoying, do you have to explain what bridge and what branch? Probably not.

Sometimes boring is sufficient. Often players don't even know the reasons why it feels boring, they just feel bored. But if lots of people are bored then as a developer you probably want to figure out why. Some will elaborate, some won't.


Hung up by a tree while crossing a bridge.

Well, if you don’t tell them which tree and what bridge and what branch....

ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO FIX EVERY BRANCH ON EVERY TREE IN THE GAME?

Seriously, it’s not that difficult to be specific about what you don’t like about something.

Ex: I don’t like strawberries because the seeds rub my tongue raw.
For me it's a mix of things. My favorite spec is a mess (shadow), it does not feel good to play and you can look at many of the topics in the class feedback forums to see why. The shadow community has made plenty but random little buffs different spells isn't fixing the problem yet they don't want to acknowledge they're actually listening to said feed back or even working on a solution or not.

Expeditions are boring and annoying. I mostly queue for them solo because most of my guildies log in for raid (which is on hold for us) or super late when I'm going to bed lol. It's frustrating getting random people that constantly overpull and then rage quit because they were dumb enough to pull the entire island in a full dps group. Not only that but the rng rewards don't feel rewarding. I'm glad they buffed it but I'd much rather be able to use dubloons on something other than expedition items. Expeditions remind me of FFXIV palace of the dead and heaven on high. While they get repetitive as well you can at least use the potsherds to buy minions, mounts, etc, or materia (think gems) once you've saved enough.

Warfronts are a timegated joke. Farming the same rares is boring, again hoping for rng rewards. The actual scenario is annoying to do and time consuming. It would be much better if there was some form of PvP to it or something and I don't even like PvP very much.

Crafting isn't fun or intuitive, it never has been. They keep trying new systems and it's still never anything interesting.

Those are my biggest issues but also, sometimes I just don't even have a reason. I want to play the game but then I login, start doing something, then I'm instantly bored and want to log off and play something else because the current end game content does not appeal to me.
I am on day 22 of not logging in. After 9 years of playing everyday. I love this game but what they've done to it is just sad.
09/29/2018 10:17 AMPosted by Holdthemayö
I am on day 22 of not logging in. After 9 years of playing everyday. I love this game but what they've done to it is just sad.

You logged in 12 days ago.

https://www.wowprogress.com/character/us/stormrage/Holdthemay%C3%B6
09/28/2018 08:34 PMPosted by Lokath
Try to make your points clear and concise.

The developers respond better to actionable feedback.


Haha good one.
09/29/2018 10:20 AMPosted by Nighdarke
09/29/2018 10:17 AMPosted by Holdthemayö
I am on day 22 of not logging in. After 9 years of playing everyday. I love this game but what they've done to it is just sad.

You logged in 12 days ago.

https://www.wowprogress.com/character/us/stormrage/Holdthemay%C3%B6


No pointing!
So basically, you just don’t like WoW. Ok, bye, have fun on Fortnite.
09/28/2018 08:28 PMPosted by Rêmedi
Island expeditions are boring, azerite traits are also boring, warfronts are boring, gated content makes this feel like a mobile game. Dailies are also boring... allied race rep grind is terrible. RNG for loot is absolutely terrible
This pretty much sums it up for me. I can't figure out what the core gameplay is supposed to be. I can't find a goal or a motivation. Azerite is weekly. Warfronts are weekly. Dungeons are useless. So basically your daily logins looks like this;
  • World quests/emissary (for rep?)
  • Spam mythics for gear
  • ???
  • Hitting 120 feels like jumping into a big unrewarding circle with no beginning or end. It wouldn't be so bad if I could find a class that was fun but my mains were really hurt by the loss of artifacts (shadow/ele.) Combat just feels slow and long gcds kill the game for me.

    So I've just been wandering around gathering :/
    By the looks of your WOW resume I’d say you are one of them there casuals??
    09/29/2018 09:58 AMPosted by Blimpo
    For example the line "island expeditions are boring" means nothing.


    So Island Expeditions are boring.

    Why?


    Well first off they are basically non stop trash fights with basically zero rewards.

    Why basically zero rewards?

    Because they drop Azerite towards winning the scenario.

    Why is this bad?

    Because the main reward for winning (and doing lots of scenarios) is Azerite.

    So, what's wrong with that?

    Well, in order for Azerite to be fun, I need to have a reasonable shot at getting a very specific piece of Azerite gear with the proper trait that in some fashion makes my character more fun to play. Passive extra bonus damage/healing really doesn't accomplish this as you get that with standard gear via stats.

    I'd also need the drops, within say an entire content patch, to have close to the same unlock levels. Getting a 340 piece at HoA level 12 where the first unlock is level 17 and last is 26 and none are interesting does not make me want to grind up Azerite to unlock boring traits. It makes me not care about Azerite at all.

    What about other rewards?

    Well, looks like there are 200+ mounts, toys, pets, transmog options on the loot list. But the drop rate is terrible. And it may require extending a Scenario length to get more rare mobs to spawn, to then kill them, to hope to get lucky with RNG. Extending a scenario by not collecting Azerite and delaying the AI faction's efforts while also hunting for rares. Not exactly fun nor something easy to due with random groupings.

    Well, there's the Doubloons.

    Which only buy minor buff consumables and fun effect consumables. 500 Arcane damage. Yeah, that sounds awesome with elite mobs with tens of thousands of health.

    But Doubloons drop in RNG quantities which includes 0 and 1. So you need to farm multiple expeditions to collect the doubloons (while also not getting other interesting rewards) to maybe be able to stack effects to make combat faster in content that you want to extend in duration for more chances at RNG spawn mobs. (See the problem here?) AND NOTHING ELSE.

    Compare that with Timeless Isle

    Timeless Isle had currency that could purchase 42 items including: gear (including weapons!), gear upgrades, toys, cosmetic items, and a mount.

    Buff consumables dropped from mobs who either could be skinned or dropped cloth on an island that also contained relevant herbs and ore. Buff consumables stacked with each other and the island shrine buffs making you incredibly powerful, not slightly more powerful. There were also quests and drops that gave Valor that could be used to purchase gear and later upgrade gear.

    So, actually playing the Timeless Isle (which wasn't timed) gave you a relatively decent shot at buff consumables, mats, cosmetic items, toys, gear, gear upgrade tokens, glyph recipes, a mount, and a currency which could be used to purchase similar items. Also: motes of harmony and charms towards upgrades, crafting, and bonus rolls. And mob combat was engaging not hitting sponges for X period of time.

    So what's the last reward from Islands?

    Reputation. Okay. Take your time farming rep to buy a mount or tabard or to unlock a new cosmetic race you either spend $25 to change your character to, ~60 hours leveling, or $60 to boost. None of which require being Exalted the first couple of months of an expansion and all of which can be accomplished through other means and likely years later.

    TLDR: The main rewards aren't actually rewarding. The secondary rewards require playing the scenarios wrong, while still winning, and still have a drop rate so low you may never get 1/100th of the items available. If any at all. And they boil down to collecting nodes and fighting boring mobs for longer than you care to fight with boring class gameplay.

    All of this extends to Warfronts as well by the way. You just get to gear out in 340 gear once a month with those.
    09/29/2018 09:58 AMPosted by Lokath
    09/29/2018 05:51 AMPosted by Zaranthosdk
    ...

    I really had no problem seeing what they didn't like based on what was written. If getting hung up by a tree branch crossing a bridge on your mount is annoying, do you have to explain what bridge and what branch? Probably not.

    Sometimes boring is sufficient. Often players don't even know the reasons why it feels boring, they just feel bored. But if lots of people are bored then as a developer you probably want to figure out why. Some will elaborate, some won't.


    Hung up by a tree while crossing a bridge.

    Well, if you don’t tell them which tree and what bridge and what branch....

    ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO FIX EVERY BRANCH ON EVERY TREE IN THE GAME?

    Seriously, it’s not that difficult to be specific about what you don’t like about something.

    Ex: I don’t like strawberries because the seeds rub my tongue raw.


    This is a forum, not a bug report. If there is a trend about something people don't like I'm sure bug reports can be searched for specifics. Plus they ignore the forums, for the most part. :P

    I would file clear, concise bug reports, and sometimes back them up with a comment on the forums. The forums are for discussion, the in-game reporting systems if for bugs.

    Sometimes people just like to come here and blow off steam.
    09/28/2018 08:28 PMPosted by Rêmedi
    Island expeditions are boring, azerite traits are also boring, warfronts are boring, gated content makes this feel like a mobile game. Dailies are also boring... allied race rep grind is terrible. RNG for loot is absolutely terrible
    This pretty much sums it up for me. I can't figure out what the core gameplay is supposed to be. Azerite is weekly. Warfronts are weekly. Dungeons are useless. So basically your daily logins looks like this;
  • World quests/emissary (for rep?)
  • Spam mythics for gear
  • ???
  • Hitting 120 feels like jumping into a big unrewarding circle with no beginning or end. It wouldn't be so bad if I could find a class that was fun but my mains were really hurt by the loss of artifacts (shadow/ele.) Combat just feels slow and long gcds kill the game for me.

    So I've just been wandering around gathering :/


    Sigh I’m tired of people whining and assuming everyone has the same feelings as them. Just unsub quietly and leave the negativity off the forums we have enough trolls as it is and we the positive need to get ready for Sunday and the mass troll invasion that happens tomorrow!

    I have been playing this game for a loooong time. There are things I hate and love. I hated WOD with a pain on but I was able to play the way I wanted and have fun my way with the game.
    09/29/2018 11:00 AMPosted by Chopsurloin
    09/29/2018 09:58 AMPosted by Blimpo
    For example the line "island expeditions are boring" means nothing.


    So Island Expeditions are boring.

    Why?


    Well first off they are basically non stop trash fights with basically zero rewards.

    Why basically zero rewards?

    Because they drop Azerite towards winning the scenario.

    Why is this bad?

    Because the main reward for winning (and doing lots of scenarios) is Azerite.

    So, what's wrong with that?

    Well, in order for Azerite to be fun, I need to have a reasonable shot at getting a very specific piece of Azerite gear with the proper trait that in some fashion makes my character more fun to play. Passive extra bonus damage/healing really doesn't accomplish this as you get that with standard gear via stats.

    I'd also need the drops, within say an entire content patch, to have close to the same unlock levels. Getting a 340 piece at HoA level 12 where the first unlock is level 17 and last is 26 and none are interesting does not make me want to grind up Azerite to unlock boring traits. It makes me not care about Azerite at all.

    What about other rewards?

    Well, looks like there are 200+ mounts, toys, pets, transmog options on the loot list. But the drop rate is terrible. And it may require extending a Scenario length to get more rare mobs to spawn, to then kill them, to hope to get lucky with RNG. Extending a scenario by not collecting Azerite and delaying the AI faction's efforts while also hunting for rares. Not exactly fun nor something easy to due with random groupings.

    Well, there's the Doubloons.

    Which only buy minor buff consumables and fun effect consumables. 500 Arcane damage. Yeah, that sounds awesome with elite mobs with tens of thousands of health.

    But Doubloons drop in RNG quantities which includes 0 and 1. So you need to farm multiple expeditions to collect the doubloons (while also not getting other interesting rewards) to maybe be able to stack effects to make combat faster in content that you want to extend in duration for more chances at RNG spawn mobs. (See the problem here?) AND NOTHING ELSE.

    Compare that with Timeless Isle

    Timeless Isle had currency that could purchase 42 items including: gear (including weapons!), gear upgrades, toys, cosmetic items, and a mount.

    Buff consumables dropped from mobs who either could be skinned or dropped cloth on an island that also contained relevant herbs and ore. Buff consumables stacked with each other and the island shrine buffs making you incredibly powerful, not slightly more powerful. There were also quests and drops that gave Valor that could be used to purchase gear and later upgrade gear.

    So, actually playing the Timeless Isle (which wasn't timed) gave you a relatively decent shot at buff consumables, mats, cosmetic items, toys, gear, gear upgrade tokens, glyph recipes, a mount, and a currency which could be used to purchase similar items. Also: motes of harmony and charms towards upgrades, crafting, and bonus rolls. And mob combat was engaging not hitting sponges for X period of time.

    So what's the last reward from Islands?

    Reputation. Okay. Take your time farming rep to buy a mount or tabard or to unlock a new cosmetic race you either spend $25 to change your character to, ~60 hours leveling, or $60 to boost. None of which require being Exalted the first couple of months of an expansion and all of which can be accomplished through other means and likely years later.

    TLDR: The main rewards aren't actually rewarding. The secondary rewards require playing the scenarios wrong, while still winning, and still have a drop rate so low you may never get 1/100th of the items available. If any at all. And they boil down to collecting nodes and fighting boring mobs for longer than you care to fight with boring class gameplay.

    All of this extends to Warfronts as well by the way. You just get to gear out in 340 gear once a month with those.


    This is better and actionable feedback. This is the type of feedback that can make a difference. Saying something is boring does not help.
    BFA is the worst xpac, there is so much I hate about it I enjoy seeing how many people quit everyday :D
    09/28/2018 08:53 PMPosted by Bruvnondus
    09/28/2018 08:50 PMPosted by Rêmedi
    ...

    Doesn't completely invalidate it though, especially if this appears to be the general consensus. I mean, look at the responses in this thread. Look at the state of GD.

    If someone tells you sexual harassment is bad and terrible, would you need an explanation there as well? Don't be so silly.


    People that are enjoying themselves don't rush to the forums to say how awesome the game is. Negativity bias is absolutely a thing in a platform like this.


    And when we do, we get accused of being “White Knights” or Blizzard employees as if we are spreading fake news.

    If you or anyone else don’t like the direction and everything is bored with the game, well thats a shame but it happens. I’m not trying to change your mind, if you need to quit it’s probably for the best.

    But just know, this is only the beginning. Legion started much the same and grew to be one of the best expansions. I see BfA moving in the same direction, which is why I am going to stick it out.

    Food for thought
    The 6 months sub mount reward after a month of BFA release sums pretty well how the expension is doing .
    While some people are sub since the begining and got mebee a pet every anniversary , if you promess to stay 6 months for this expac we give you a mount .

    I loved vanilla , BC , and wotlk (for the lore) , but after that the game lost its identity , when i look at my character lord i miss to compare weapons of same level to see wich one is better , look at all my stats and try stuff ,aim something and do everything to get it (and not be stopped by some time lock or limits to be sure ill get one more month )

    Clearly everything is made to make us stay sub ,even this reputation thing ,at BC you could kill mobs , farm dungeon to get your rep up , here its filtered , to not get stuff too fast , everything is like that , and how frustrating when i had order of embers honored at 11999/12000 and had to wait one day to get those crappy gears that i changed the same day in dungeon ...
    most of this xpac is frustration , i tried reroll to get some fresh air from grinding but lord i had to spam arcan shot til lvl 11 , then i got another skill that made 2 skills to spam . Seriously how a new player that tried other MMOs would want to stay when the leveling starts like this ?
    I miss the old WoW and idk if the retail gonna get close to it ever again , i really think the game is just slowly planing to get on playstation and such why the slow GCD to not be advantaged as computer players (personal thought)
    Last time i came on here and said something along the lines of "im not a game designer its not my job to fix things for them" i got a forum ban lmao. the extent people will go to to stay in denial at this stage is absurd.
    09/28/2018 08:28 PMPosted by Rêmedi
    Not making this a whining post, I like the Dev team - they do a great job. I just think the direction this game is taking is pretty poor. I realize that Blizzard's target audience = casuals, but they missed the mark with us. For my friends that are more serious/competitive, they missed the mark with them as well.


    I see people always say this, but in all honesty I think it is false. Blizzard's target audience now days is raiders. A huge portion of how you gear up and play your character is streamlined to make it far easier to get you into raiding. Leveling is quick, you are showered in gear early on and there really isn't a whole lot to do out in the open world for the average casual player.

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