As a casual player, I'm unsubbing with my friends and here is why

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09/29/2018 12:08 PMPosted by Îpman
The 6 months sub mount reward after a month of BFA release sums pretty well how the expension is doing .
While some people are sub since the begining and got mebee a pet every anniversary , if you promess to stay 6 months for this expac we give you a mount .

I loved vanilla , BC , and wotlk (for the lore) , but after that the game lost its identity , when i look at my character lord i miss to compare weapons of same level to see wich one is better , look at all my stats and try stuff ,aim something and do everything to get it (and not be stopped by some time lock or limits to be sure ill get one more month )

Clearly everything is made to make us stay sub ,even this reputation thing ,at BC you could kill mobs , farm dungeon to get your rep up , here its filtered , to not get stuff too fast , everything is like that , and how frustrating when i had order of embers honored at 11999/12000 and had to wait one day to get those crappy gears that i changed the same day in dungeon ...
most of this xpac is frustration , i tried reroll to get some fresh air from grinding but lord i had to spam arcan shot til lvl 11 , then i got another skill that made 2 skills to spam . Seriously how a new player that tried other MMOs would want to stay when the leveling starts like this ?
I miss the old WoW and idk if the retail gonna get close to it ever again , i really think the game is just slowly planing to get on playstation and such why the slow GCD to not be advantaged as computer players (personal thought)


Yet if we had grindable mobs for reps the same people would be complaining about having to grind 10000 mobs to rep up, just like people complained in TBC and Vanilla. How many people came here to post quit threads during TBC based on the fact you needed to run countless normal dungeons to become attuned for heroics, to then do content for most people was outdated and only now done for the few badges to buy vendor gear. Which begun the complaints on welfare epics and how the welfare epics have destroyed the gear because a heroic/kara farming player could get full epic gear and thats such a horrible thing and WoW as a result was going to die out etc.

Me personally id love vanilla and wrath reputation styles, but TBC reps can get stuffed.

People complain about world quests being boring and repetitive. Go do BEM or Isle of Quel Danas dailies, every day for months. Even vanilla dailies/repeatables were more repetitive than anything now. Atleast the quests change around so your not going to the same daily hub to do the same 3-5 quests, than travel to next hub and do same 3-5 quests etc. Also reps are optional now, which they were not in vanilla or TBC. You had to sit in EPL/WPL farming scourge stones, over and over and over. Killing the same undead 2000+ times to get your scourgestones etc.

Yet despite that stuff, people apparently majority want vanilla back based on feedback which has led to a classic server coming back at some point. And TBC was the best expansion according to many. Yet they quit BFA because of the grind? Because reps are gated (and not even badly like the daily gating in TBC and the grind gating of vanilla), and because you need to do the same dungeons multiple times (shock for you, have fun running shattered halls about 30 times to hit revered to get your heroic key attunement, then repeat with SV, Shadow Lab, Mana tombs, Mech/Bot/Arc and now you can run the same dungeon with higher damage and health plus maybe 1 or 2 more).

Feedback is many sided. What you find boring, isnt what I find boring. Truth is this expansion has been the best of the last 3 for me. Warlords was horrible. Only thing going for me in that game was gold via garrisons and raiding, I stopped raiding and quit a week later because I realised I had nothing to do anymore. I barely played legion, the RNG legendaries and constant AP grind was horrible if you have limited playtime (Im away from home alot now for work) and I couldnt keep up so why bother? This expansion has a nice pace for me. I dont feel behind aside from gear which is fine, I cant put in the time so my gear wont be as good, but my AP is only a little behind which is also fine. My reps are coming along nicely, and most are exalted/revered on my main and ive unlocked all 3 allied races for alliance with very little effort (30mins on argus every couple of days plus emissaries like kirin tor and mission table and you hit exalted in about a month so not bad at all and relatively quick and easy). Ive got 2 toons around the 350 ilvl, no issue finding groups for stuff and im very casual due to work. I dont like azerite armor but meh, its an armor slot and if they balance it more than its kinda like a tier bonus or talent tree point where you get more choices.
09/28/2018 08:41 PMPosted by Lokath
09/28/2018 08:36 PMPosted by Rêmedi
...

My points are clear enough, I'd be happy to break it down for you if English isn't your native language


They really aren’t though.

Just saying something is boring and terrible doesn’t explain why.


Maybe reading just isn't for you. I read it and understood it in one go.
As a casual player who’s just dropped my sub I agree completely. I began playing in 05’ and and quit many times previously. My longest break was during MoP and I didn’t return until April of this year just as Legion was wrapping up. I had a lot of fun and leveled 6 heros to 110 without a clear favorite. I was very excited for BFA but the shine wore off quickly. I hope for better days ahead and I’ll give Classic a try, it was a lot of fun the first time around but that was when it was beyond reproach from any other game before it.
09/29/2018 06:55 PMPosted by Stormtiger
09/28/2018 08:41 PMPosted by Lokath
...

They really aren’t though.

Just saying something is boring and terrible doesn’t explain why.


Maybe reading just isn't for you. I read it and understood it in one go.


Emotional outbursts don’t equate to actionable feedback
09/28/2018 08:53 PMPosted by Bruvnondus
People that are enjoying themselves don't rush to the forums to say how awesome the game is.


Most people that drop out don't come to the forums either. In fact, most people don't come to the forums. So we're back to zero.
OP I agree with you on all points. I love WOW but I am not finding it fun anymore. Their new direction just feel more punishing. At least with legion the artifact weapon was simple and you didn't lose anything. I am mystified why they didn't just keep them and have azeroth repower them, Bliz has me until I am exulted with the current factions then I will take another break until pathfinder 2 comes out then who knows if I will stay subbed beyond that.

This ultra RNG drops are for the birds, I just don't see what was wrong with the game MOP and every Xpack before it. If you want to keep a lot of us just ad sandbox type of content like collecting mats for player housing. Crafting items for your house, customizing / upgrading the exterior & interior. Have randomized events in the game to engage in like brigands looting your city. Daily raids on a city that you can queue for.

Time gates aren't fun and shouldn't be considered as content. Playable content is content. The games direction as it is, is boring, if not right away then soon after.
09/29/2018 09:58 AMPosted by Lokath
09/29/2018 05:51 AMPosted by Zaranthosdk
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I really had no problem seeing what they didn't like based on what was written. If getting hung up by a tree branch crossing a bridge on your mount is annoying, do you have to explain what bridge and what branch? Probably not.

Sometimes boring is sufficient. Often players don't even know the reasons why it feels boring, they just feel bored. But if lots of people are bored then as a developer you probably want to figure out why. Some will elaborate, some won't.


Hung up by a tree while crossing a bridge.

Well, if you don’t tell them which tree and what bridge and what branch....

ARE THEY SUPPOSED TO FIX EVERY BRANCH ON EVERY TREE IN THE GAME?

Seriously, it’s not that difficult to be specific about what you don’t like about something.

Ex: I don’t like strawberries because the seeds rub my tongue raw.

It's not difficult to be specific, but Blizzard ignores pages, pages, pages and, did I mention, pages? and.... thread after thread after thread of articulate, thoughtful constructive criticism just as much as it ignores less useful data.

Consequently, continuing to provide such feedback is as big a waste of time as playing WoW is these days.
I'm not playing but I won't drop my sub.. too lazy, i'll check back in later. Sometimes you just gotta take a break you know ?
09/28/2018 08:34 PMPosted by Lokath
Try to make your points clear and concise.

The developers respond better to actionable feedback.


The developers dont respond at all.
09/29/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Mishtah
Yet if we had grindable mobs for reps the same people would be complaining about having to grind 10000 mobs to rep up,


It shouldn't be just mobs, or just WQs, or just dungeons. In any case where there is only one option, a lot of people will not like the one option.
09/29/2018 07:09 PMPosted by Lokath
<span class="truncated">...</span>

Maybe reading just isn't for you. I read it and understood it in one go.


Emotional outbursts don’t equate to actionable feedback


In this entire thread, you repeat the same point over and over again as if you think you hold the more valid argument.

You don't, and no matter how many times you say it, you still won't.

When a company makes a game, it is not the community's responsibility to tell them how to make a game. If any of these companies have employees who actively play WoW, even if not all of them, a collection would have said "wow this stuff is pretty boring to be honest, we should let the dev team know" or "wow, this game is littered with bugs, we should voice those concerns" or "wow, coming off Legion, this expansion is not nearly as good" (for anyone interested, the employee is Owen Wilson). This is an echo of the majority of players right now.

I would argue that a small issue brought forth on the forum may reflect the sentiments of a small minority, however, the threads appearing on GD are a reflection of a very large player base.

Never have I seen my guild activity drop so quickly in an expansion from 50-60 members on at a time to 5-7 members.

The game is boring. That is enough of an explanation. Every feature they have released is boring. The rep grinds are boring. The Islands are boring. The Warfronts are boring, Azerite gear is boring. Grinding AP is boring. At the end of those grinds, you are met with boredom making you question why you even bothered.
09/28/2018 10:13 PMPosted by Kugsneak
for me the activities always get tedious and boring in repetition

the speed at which they become such is DIRECTLY related to how much reward they provide and whether it gives me the reward prior to burning out from the repetition

the RNG everything makes so much in this game feel like a colossal waste of my time, no progress was made

it doesn't feel like progress to take another pull on the slot machine. It feels like progress to earn something EVERYTIME I play, that is either a reward itself or can be turned in for rewards

progress in this game revolves around loot, set bonuses (which are all gone now), and cool cosmetics. But loot is BY FAR the core reward.
I've been trying to figure out exactly what it is that causes me to log on, look at the map, sigh and log off. This post made it pop out, waste of time!

World quests feel like a complete waste of time since the rewards are useless now. Mythic + feels like a waste of time after running 5 and getting nothing but a useless azerite piece in my weekly chest. Higher keys feel like a waste of time compared to the effort required. Rep grinds feel like a waste of time because I don't care about or agree with what's gated behind them. Warfronts and island expeditions are a waste of time. Raids, I've always loved to raid but right now I couldn't care less. I dont want to waste hours in a raid getting poorly itemized drops that I cant give to someone else.

I've come to the conclusion that my time is more valuable to me than all of the low chances of progressing my character. I just cannot force myself to care at all about anything in this expansion because literally everything at max level feels like an unrewarding waste of time.

The developers need to realize that people want a goal to work towards, not a goal to maybe possibly reach one day if luck is on our side.
09/30/2018 05:56 AMPosted by Leesha

I've come to the conclusion that my time is more valuable to me than all of the low chances of progressing my character. I just cannot force myself to care at all about anything in this expansion because literally everything at max level feels like an unrewarding waste of time.

The developers need to realize that people want a goal to work towards, not a goal to maybe possibly reach one day if luck is on our side.


This is not a "vanilla was the best" response, but I think this comment captures what people valued about Classic.

Efforts meant something. It was bloody hard to reach certain goals, but when you did, it meant something. Leveling wasn't just some block of time which was a barricade to being able to do what the game is actually about. It was a tedious process that felt rewarding when you actually reached it. Getting an 'Epic' meant something because it was only offered in specific areas, and was like a "hell ya look what I got". Furthermore, the loot tables were specific, you knew what could possibly drop, none of this titanforging/warforged lottery.

In no way I am saying "bring those systems back!!". All I'm saying is the element of rewards have vanished from this game. Doing raids means nothing now. Why am I going to sit in a raid for hours on end to get a piece of gear that is meaningless in the context of being able to get it from other sources (i.e. M+/titanforged world quests/warfronts). Even the defining feature of loot from raids (tier sets) has been scrapped from the game, making them more obsolete.

There's nothing special to do anymore.
I all bout stopped logging in too. Pretty casual since cata since enough rl distractions to affect raiding. Seems like each expansion they make more and more things dragged out, less rewarding and gated. I agree with many of points made in here, and im gettin rdy to walk out the door myself.

Wow isnt what it used to be, it is hard to put in words, but its very depressing. I own many mmos and actually i been jumping more and more into gw2, with eso sto at ready too. Blizz needs to stop being stubborn and actually listen to customer base, like seriously listen. Shouting everything is fine and doubling down is just going to drive all customers away.

I do 6 month game times, so unfortunally i paid till feb, i have never regretted a purchase as bad as that. Since i cant stop/pause it, and i cant refund it, i will have let it burn out till then.
09/30/2018 05:05 AMPosted by Zuggernaught
I'm not playing but I won't drop my sub.. too lazy, i'll check back in later. Sometimes you just gotta take a break you know ?


Let’s say you enjoy getting a coffee every other morning from your local cafe...suddenly the cafe starts serving really bad, cold, weak, coffee. Would you continue to purchase a coffee every other day or would you stop paying the $.99 for said coffee because it’s not really impacting your finances? The cafe owner may be unaware people are unhappy with the coffee but continuing to pay for it won’t inform them.

Stop supporting a buisness that serves you a bad product, you wouldn’t do it for anything else, would you?
WoW's direction isn't made for "casuals", it's made for brain-lazy and bad players, people that literally live their life on autopilot.

Almost every change is bad for people for who are mindful, engaged and trying to optimise in most areas of their character. Everything is taken out of our hands, decisions eliminated and the entire experience completely streamlined, with effective 'hard caps' where the 'good' players can be so the bad players aren't left behind.

Everything said points to essentially: "Log in everyday, do your mindless dailies that take forever, grind forever for the shiney carrot or just buy wow tokens for the gold you need :)! Don"t forget to resub for the stretched out time gated other shiny carrots!"

It's so blatantly obvious, it's depressing. It's literally draining the will to play out of any all players that have an ounce of caring left - the very player's that would be those that would advocate for a good game by word of mouth.

SOME Devs answer things so cynical and spiteful to very reasonable and understandable complaints that it eliminates all hope that anything upcoming might just be for the pure benefit of the player instead of one of their shareholder metrics.
I'm a casual and my game time expires in a couple hours. Just bored of the game
WoW's direction isn't made for "casuals", it's made for brain-lazy and bad players, people that literally live their life on autopilot.

Almost every change is bad for people for who are mindful, engaged and trying to optimise in most areas of their character. Everything is taken out of our hands, decisions eliminated and the entire experience completely streamlined, with effective 'hard caps' where the 'good' players are held back with RNG, diminishing returns and over-simplification with no 'expression of skill' so that bad players can't be left behind.

Everything said points to essentially: "Log in everyday, do your mindless dailies that take forever, grind forever for the shiney carrot or just buy wow tokens for the gold you need :)! Don"t forget to resub for the stretched out time gated other shiny carrots!"

It's so blatantly obvious, it's depressing. It's literally draining the will to play out of any all players that have an ounce of caring left - the very player's that would be those that would advocate for a good game by word of mouth.

SOME Devs answer things so cynical and spiteful to very reasonable and understandable complaints that it eliminates all hope that anything upcoming might just be for the pure benefit of the player instead of one of their shareholder metrics.
I'm going to say that this expansion is really beautiful and the guys who worked on this have my compliments. But the guys working on the content, they are all fired.

I'm a casual player as well, I've been playing WoW since Cataclysm.
WOD was the first time playing WoW that I couldn't enjoy. After that nothing could motivate me to play as I did before. Blizzard still doing !@#$ over and over again, trying to say us how to play the game.

I cannot play WoW weekdays, that's a fact so when I have time to play (weekends) I have like: 3 emissaries, expedition islands, try to find a group to make Mythic DG or Raids (N/H).

3 emissaries are fine, 12 WQ I can do it in 1 hour and I'm done. I'm not going to "walk" to make additional WQ since it's %^-*ING BORING.
Expedition islands are questionable, why the hell I'm doing that !@#$? To unlock traits that I'm not sure what the hell they increase my gear? Ok, I do it anyway, just "FOR THE HORDE" reasons. But, let's agree it's %^-*ING BORING.
Mythic DG or Raids (N/H) as DPS it takes like 1-3 hours waiting to find a group, what is !@#$ING BORING.
Oh, I just did Warfronts, first time was kinda fun, but after that was %^-*ING BORING.
I'm blocked in the War Campaign because I don't have reputation enough to continue, if this reputation isn't in the emissaries at the weekends I'll have this reputation maybe NEVER. It's !@#$ING BORING.

But looks like Blizzard is not interested in this, they just want us paying for a long time and giving us things that ARE NOT FUN and have no NICE REWARDS. Do you need a prove? Well, give us your money for 6 months and I'll give you a mount. Actually, I want to pay 6 months because it is fun, I can use my manticore green to walk around pretty well.
As I cannot only say that it is boring, I must give some solutions as well.
The KEY to make the things fun isn't too hard to understand. IS GIVE OPTIONS for the people do the content they like to do.

- Put more rewards around all the content to make it worthwhile. Do a content that there's any nice reward isn't FUN!
- Farm AP power ISN'T fun. the people said in Legion but I think they are deaf since they made this !@#$ AGAIN. It isn't FUN!
- Give us back the fly option after hit the max level, for god sake WALK to make WQ is painful, with thousand of mobs hitting you and dropping you from your mount, mountains, lakes and so on. It isn't FUN!
- Give us back the SCENARIOS from Pandaria, was a GREAT option that didn't require 5 persons (1 tank, 1 heal, and 3 DPS) to do. Wait in the queue for a content isn't FUN!
- As I said before, STOP block the content with REPUTATIONS, I'm blocked in the War Campaign because I don't have reputation enough to continue, if this reputation isn't in the emissaries at the weekends I'll have this reputation maybe NEVER. Wait for luck to make the content isn't FUN!
- Give us back the "VALOR points" to make possible we grab equips from the vendors, the equips earned by REPUTATIONS suck, since when you unlock the equip it's already a %^-* compared with the ones you already have. AND MAKE THE VALOR POINT account-wide. Because there's a lot of people that like ALT and do all this !@#$ again isn't FUN!
- Make the leveling A WAY EASIER, you did a leveling change on the maps and you couldn't even indicate which chain quest is the main one, we still don't know which quests lead us to the main quest story. Kill mobs for skin isn't FUN!
- Unlock this requirement to create the new races. Create and leveling a toon to unlock another toon to leveling another toon that I liked. What? It isn't FUN!
- And what about the heritage armor? Leveling a toon from 20 to 120 and then unlock the heritage armor not be able to use it in my other toons? In this case, you are considering I'm going to make this new toon my main char and forget all my reputations, professions and everything I have in my main char? Or maybe you are considering I'm going to PAY for a race change on my main char just to use this new set? Pay to for a race change isn't FUN!

Well, I could cover a bunch of other points here, but I'm so tired to think about it because no one is telling to Blizzard something NEW, everything here is OLD stuff the community already said it thousands of times and nothing changed. To the community, I would like to suggest try other games. There's a lot more to explore, new worlds and nice stuff to see. There's no point to keep hitting our heads in the wall asking Blizzard to make the things right. They are giving a %^-* to us.
I left WoW after killing Argus in the last expansion and started to play FFXIV, I back to WoW because I paid the expansion and I have 12 game days. I don't think I'll pay another month, maybe I'll be back in the next patch.

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