The Unofficial High Elf Discussion Megathread

General Discussion
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Because in the past, (before allied races were available) Blizzard would have had to create an entire new zone dedicated to them, and potentially a city. These were the sorts of things that just weren't viable when creating a force as small as high elves. The Allied Race system removes these restrictions, so now, after 14 years of development, lore, expansions, they are finally justifiable.


So....during the development of BC they couldn't have prepared a zone for Helfs? Oh, and during the development of WotLK they couldn't have prepared a zone for Helfs? Oh surely, during the development of Cata they could have prepared a zone for Helfs, right? Gah, I almost forgot about Mists........and WoD......and Legion.....oh, and BfA......SURELY they could have prepared new zones for Helfs, because they're FINALLY JUSTIFIED!

Right?
...
So, by that logic, high elves can be as playable as void elves.
No, because giving the Alliance another version of the model that was originally the Horde’s is problematic, especially when they are the same race with different skin.

Zandalari and Nightborne are at least completely different races and it’s obvious


yeah. I’ve seen quite a few people here cite nightborne. Look at a female night elf silhouette and look at a female nightborne silhouette and you’ll be able to tell they’re different. Different ears, skin colors, hair colors, they even stand different. High Elves look exactly the same other than high color.

And as cool as some fan mockups of a new held body hybrid look, lorewise it would make no sense considering they’ve only been spilt for 20 years.
In order to differentiate the High Elfs from the Bloods Elfs, I propose these measures.

For the Bloods Elfs.
1°. Give runes and light tattoos, as in LFD.
2°. Give runes and Fel tattoos, as in the TBC Box.

For the High Elfs.
1°. Give 2 models. One of Blood Elf and one of Half Elf, because currently Half Elf is considered High Elf.
2°. Explore the theme of Silver Hand, Silver Convenent, Windrunner and Kirin Tor.
3 °. Give scars and military haircuts, because the Silver Convenent is a military faction.
4 °. Give tattoos and hair cuts with the "Forest Elf" theme from Windrunner.
5 °. Give hair and beard cuts that humans use.
6 °. Give eyes of various shades of color, such as gray, blue, arcane blue, green, honey, light eyes, purples, greens and browns.
7 °. Some Blood Elfs haircuts can be kept, as with the Void Elfs.
8 °. For the model of the male Half Elfs, I suggest leaving the legs shorter, decreasing a 3 ° of posture, smaller eyebrows and smaller ears. For the female Half Elf, decrease the size of the eyebrow and ear. Raise your waist slightly.
9°. For legacy armor, explore the themes in Article 2.
10 °. Skin tones must be the same as those of High Elfs.

Now they are completely different.

PS 1.Void Elfs don`t are a commitment (To be honest, I inquire why people say that Void Elfs are a commitment of the High Elfs and we should accept that. I inquire if Blizzard would add a Shrek instead of the ogres if they would be good).
PS 2. It is not because they are alike that they are the same thing. For example, would you date a !@#$%^-*!@#? (I'm not being homophobic, it's just an example).
PS 3. If I wrote something wrong, forgive me. I'm not fluent in English.
10/19/2018 10:13 AMPosted by Tyierin
And as cool as some fan mockups of a new held body hybrid look, lorewise it would make no sense considering they’ve only been spilt for 20 years.


Void Elves physically changed enough in a few moments to be a playable race. I hate when people act like they would just go "High Elves are playable now" and give them no intro story or story line leading up to it when very new allied race has a story intro to introduce you to them explaining why they are joining now.

I mean even just looking at recent stuff on the PTR it seems Elves can just change as the story demands like Tyrande becoming the Night Warrior and allowing us to have darker eyes like her.
10/19/2018 09:49 AMPosted by Ruddypiper

You can't provide a good reason for Horde High Elves and Alliance High Elves to look different though.

[/quote]

*sigh* The point being made is that form could follow function rather than the opposite.

For such argument, we have posited both the possibility of human blood within Dalaran HE, or that any necessary differentiation required to maintain uniqueness on either model Does Not Need To Be Biological.

If what is needed is for them to LOOK or BE different enough, THAT CAN BE ARRANGED.
10/19/2018 10:26 AMPosted by Talendrion
...


*sigh* The point being made is that form could follow function rather than the opposite.

For such argument, we have posited both the possibility of human blood within Dalaran HE, or that any necessary differentiation required to maintain uniqueness on either model Does Not Need To Be Biological.

If what is needed is for them to LOOK or BE different enough, THAT CAN BE ARRANGED.
This would be extremely forced and it’s probably unlikely blizzard would give them an entire new model with no explanation

Maybe a different stance, and idle animations.
10/19/2018 03:31 AMPosted by Ruddypiper
10/18/2018 10:58 PMPosted by Arisran
You know now that I think about it, I don't think I've ever heard someone question the reason for Quel'dorei in any place they were implemented.


Maybe because only super serious semi-fanatical RP players pay attention to the NPC's in the game? Having only done them on Horde, but on 2 characters, I still couldn't tell you the general make up of our NPC's or the racial distribution of the Alliance NPC's we fight beyond most of the latter appearing to be largely Human and Dwarf. It's simply not an issue for most players.

10/19/2018 01:45 AMPosted by Daenirr
-Vereesa in old Dalaran is hostile to horde (even though Aethas is neutral to alliance).


One aggressively hostile and bigoted NPC who is militantly racist against her own people for truly no good reason does not establish a basis for a sub-race faction.

10/18/2018 09:58 PMPosted by Daenirr
There are plenty of us who like High Elves for reasons unrelated to Blood Elves, but people still feel the need to bring up Blood Elven lore even though it doesn't apply to any of the High Elf groups on the Alliance.


But it specifically applies to High Elves in the Alliance. They are all literally the same people.

High Elves were Highborne Night Elves who fled the Sundering, established a new kingdom in Eastern Kingdoms, and gradually evolved a different appearance from Night Elves, Nightborne, and Highborne due to ~7,000 years of absorbing pure Arcane energy from the Sunwell.

Around 3,000 years ago Humans devolved from Curse of the Flesh afflicted Vyrkul and began establishing kingdoms next door to the High Elf kingdom. The High Elves took the Humans under their wing and began teaching, interacting, and allying with them.

Around 20 years ago the High Elf King got tired of pretty much fully supporting Humans and getting jack in return and abandoned his Alliance. Some of the ones stationed in or living in Human Kingdoms didn't agree and stayed put. That doesn't make them physically different though.

Elves in WoW live for thousands of years and reproduce very slowly and in small numbers. The "big" cities they cohabit with other Alliance races only contain a few thousand total individuals and are all within short travel distance of each race's homeland and capitals. Completely excluding portals, ships, trains, and planes as means to reduce travel time.

The main exhibits of crossbreeding are the Windrunners and 2 of them are apparently very young, not much older than most in game humans. And that in itself is a "rule of cool" nod to Tolkein who's races were all part of the same creation story. Elves descend from Trolls who naturally evolved on Azeroth. Humans descend from Vyrkul who were Titan creations of metal and stone. Orcs are space aliens who evolved alongside Ogres. Eredar are space aliens from a different planet. Crossbreeding shouldn't be possible and where are the Human/Elf/Gnome/Dwarf crosses?

You have no real justification for completely separate evolutionary paths for Quel'thalas High Elves mainly living at home and those living abroad but close enough to home to visit and find mates. Particularly when the first Elves to move to places like Dalaran, Lordaeron, or Stormwind could literally be the exact same Elves living their today with their spouses and children who moved their with them a thousand or so years ago.

The last High Elf King, Anasterian Sunstrider, reigned for 2,800 years and -2,800 years ago is approximately when the first Human kingdom, Arathor, was formed and Human and Elf started hanging out.

Shoot, even in our huge metropolitan cities of hundreds of thousands to millions of people, a good majority stick to their own ethnic communities for generations on generations.


The history of the Silvermoon Blood Elves is irrelevant... A lot of these high elves have been living with us for thousands of years...

Also having a favorite NPC/faction has nothing to do with "serious rpers". I don't RP at all yet I'm still interested in the story...

Vereesa isn't perfect, but she's been through hell and back. Why is it such a problem when Alliance leaders show much deserved hatred to the Horde?

Also your argument about them being the same race once again does not matter because Void Elves are a thing
Sigh, my phone sucks, but what I was trying to say about your "not different enough" point is that it shouldn't matter and if it did Blizzard could EASILY add in some lore to make them physically different.

The Blood Elves already look different from High Elves with their darker skin tones and green/gold eyes. Most fans are looking at the Highvale when they talk about physical differences. These high elves haven't sniffed any type of magic for a while now, so it makes perfect sense how there could somehow be some sort of "evolution" going on.
i'm impressed with the level I was ignored on all sides
<span class="truncated">...</span>
So, by that logic, high elves can be as playable as void elves.
No, because giving the Alliance another version of the model that was originally the Horde’s is problematic, especially when they are the same race with different skin.

Zandalari and Nightborne are at least completely different races and it’s obvious

You just sprouted a bunch of made-up rules. I find it particularly amusing that you stumbled into the Zandalari’s night elvish model and had to make an exception.

Void elf model is now Alliance’s. If we can have twin kinds of draenei or dwarves with diferent skin colors, we can have another elf skin just fine.
<span class="truncated">...</span>No, because giving the Alliance another version of the model that was originally the Horde’s is problematic, especially when they are the same race with different skin.

Zandalari and Nightborne are at least completely different races and it’s obvious

You just sprouted a bunch of made-up rules.
i said it would be problematic to have void elves and high elves as two separate allied races on the Alliance side. It’s not a rule it’s an argument. The main point was that:

They don’t have enough differences to be two separate allied races, lorewise they are literally the same race, and the model belonged to the Horde first. It would be okay for the model to be used for another different race.

I find it partuclarly amusing that you stmbled into the Zandalari’s night elvish model to break your own rule and had to make an exception.
and I find it particularly amusing that you don’t know how to read

Zandalari and Nightborne both use the same model: originally the night elf’s model. But Nightborne and Zandalari are different enough to be two separate allied races.

Void elf model is now Alliance’s. If we can have twin kinds of draenei or dwarves with diferent skin colors, we can have another elf skin just fine.
It was gifted to the Alliance to compromise for High Elves. You were given an inch, stop trying to take a mile.

In all honesty, I wouldn’t mind for the High Elves to be an allied race, but you have to acknowledge the issues it would cause instead of denying all of it
10/19/2018 10:26 AMPosted by Xeronia
Void Elves physically changed enough in a few moments to be a playable race.


A few moments in game development. Years in game time. And due to absorbing massive amounts of a newly explored and highly mutative energy.

10/19/2018 10:26 AMPosted by Xeronia
Elves can just change as the story demands like Tyrande becoming the Night Warrior and allowing us to have darker eyes like her.


A special ritual blessing that the majority don't survive. Doesn't build a racial distinction even if they add black eyes to the barber shop or character creation screen.

10/19/2018 10:26 AMPosted by Talendrion
For such argument, we have posited both the possibility of human blood within Dalaran HE


There are a total of 9 named and known half-breed characters in World of Warcraft. Only 3 of these known half-breeds come from Human and High Elf pairings and those 3 are children of Windrunner women.

Why would individual Elves, who have potentially been alive for longer than the human kingdoms have exists, have intermarried enough to form a stable population of hybrids? Particularly when attraction may lead to intercourse but not marriage, and intercourse (even tens of thousands of times spread over decades) may not produce offspring even for 2 members of the same race?

10/19/2018 10:26 AMPosted by Talendrion
or that any necessary differentiation required to maintain uniqueness on either model Does Not Need To Be Biological.


But we already have what amounts to biological differences with Blood Elf Demon Hunters (Fel infusion) and Blood Elf Death Knights (dead), not to mention another Windrunner sister, and they all have the exact same postures and idle animations but get different physical customization options due to their unique circumstances.

There are no unique circumstances between Horde Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves. All of them were living right next door to the Human kingdoms, traveling between the various kingdoms, and allied with these kingdoms from -2,800 Azeroth years to year 22 current cycle.

10/19/2018 10:54 AMPosted by Daenirr
These high elves haven't sniffed any type of magic for a while now
~11 years? Only if you assume that the cleansed Sunwell has a small and finite reach. Meanwhile it took several thousand years for High Elf to develop stark physical differences from Night Elf, Highborne, and Nightborne.

10/19/2018 10:47 AMPosted by Daenirr
The history of the Silvermoon Blood Elves is irrelevant... A lot of these high elves have been living with us for thousands of years


It's perfectly relevant because ALL High Elves spent the latter 1/4 of their existence of nearly 3,000 years living with or near Humans and also interacting and allying with Humans. They are all the same people. Just because you personally hate Blood Elves for allying with the Horde, and particularly the Orc Horde which was trying to reform and be nice neighbors doesn't justify your High Elf comrades being a completely different creature within literally a decade.

Even if there was interbreeding, you are talking about couples where 1 partner was alive 3,000 years ago and likely is alive right now. x10 Great granny would still be a High Elf and you'd need a constant intermingling between Elf, Human, and Half-Elf to keep one race's features from becoming dominant. I.E. Breeding the Elf out via successive pairings with Humans or vice versa.

10/19/2018 10:47 AMPosted by Daenirr
Vereesa isn't perfect, but she's been through hell and back.


Don't you mean Sylvanas? The High Elf killed by the Human Prince, who was raised as a self aware Banshee puppet to be further tormented by being used as a weapon against her own people and allies and whose body was kept around to be defiled as further torment?

Because Veressa's level of suffering pales in comparison given that the deviation is her Human husband (who would have died while she was still terribly young for her race anyway) willingly sacrificed himself to save others after Orc Hitler (that pretty much all the other Horde races including a decent chunk of Orcs were actively either trying to oust or sever alliances with) launched a bomb at a legitimate military threat. Which isn't me condoning that by the way.
...

*sigh* The point being made is that form could follow function rather than the opposite.

For such argument, we have posited both the possibility of human blood within Dalaran HE, or that any necessary differentiation required to maintain uniqueness on either model Does Not Need To Be Biological.

If what is needed is for them to LOOK or BE different enough, THAT CAN BE ARRANGED.
This would be extremely forced and it’s probably unlikely blizzard would give them an entire new model with no explanation

Maybe a different stance, and idle animations.


Indeed what I am saying. I'm pointing out to two possibilities, and one of them is just modify the animations as a whole -just go human for them- and other cosmetic options that do not require any sort of biological explanation.

Behavior/demeanor is not a biological differentiation, player races have their unique animation set to help make them unique.

As for the "human blood in the dalaran HE pool" it would quite simply be the same case that Kul'tiran humans going on. They have drust blood but are still considered humans, these would have human blood but would still consider themselves Elves -they could even change their name to something else-
Given Blizz's recent desperation to keep subs going and keep players playing, I am actually confident Silver Covenant High Elves are coming sooner rather than later.
@Ruddypiper's wall of text

HS it's like you don't understand what a possibility means.

Kul'tirans are Humans with Drust Blood, I am positing the possibility that SC Elves could have some Human blood in them much in the same way. I'm literally using precedent from within the world itself and pointing out to millennia of cohabitation to make my case, and the FACT that we know that Humans and Elves have been having offspring since Dalaran itself was founded.

But we already have what amounts to biological differences with Blood Elf Demon Hunters (Fel infusion) and Blood Elf Death Knights (dead), not to mention another Windrunner sister, and they all have the exact same postures and idle animations but get different physical customization options due to their unique circumstances.

There are no unique circumstances between Horde Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves. All of them were living right next door to the Human kingdoms, traveling between the various kingdoms, and allied with these kingdoms from -2,800 Azeroth years to year 22 current cycle.


I'm saying that BIOLOGY IS NOT NECESSARY TO CREATE AN AESTHETICALLY DIFFERENT MODEL. Whether you considere DH or DK to be any sort of biologically different from regular BE is Literally Irrelevant To The Point I Am Making Dear Lord Why Are You Like This.
10/19/2018 11:34 AMPosted by Caledonii
Given Blizz's recent desperation to keep subs going and keep players playing, I am actually confident Silver Covenant High Elves are coming sooner rather than later.


Honestly I don't get this sort of "optimism." I really think many people on here overestimate the level of impact playable High Elves would make on the population as a whole.
[ul][/ul]
10/19/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Talendrion
10/19/2018 11:34 AMPosted by Caledonii
Given Blizz's recent desperation to keep subs going and keep players playing, I am actually confident Silver Covenant High Elves are coming sooner rather than later.


Honestly I don't get this sort of "optimism." I really think many people on here overestimate the level of impact playable High Elves would make on the population as a whole.
Blood elves were added to get more people to join Horde

I think it’s safe to say many people would be drawn to the most played race in the game if it were on the Alliance side
10/19/2018 11:07 AMPosted by Alamara
...No, because giving the Alliance another version of the model that was originally the Horde’s is problematic, especially when they are the same race with different skin.

Zandalari and Nightborne are at least completely different races and it’s obvious

You just sprouted a bunch of made-up rules. I find it particularly amusing that you stumbled into the Zandalari’s night elvish model and had to make an exception.

Void elf model is now Alliance’s. If we can have twin kinds of draenei or dwarves with diferent skin colors, we can have another elf skin just fine.


Personally I don't much really care for that argument because it just doubles down on how "serious" the "faction identity" issue is when all you do to differentiate them and "really keep that integrity" is put a blue filter and call it a day.

It was a silly solution that didn't make anyone happy.

Well except the people that saw VE done and were "me likey." Good For them.
10/19/2018 11:46 AMPosted by Mithrandys
[ul][/ul]
10/19/2018 11:42 AMPosted by Talendrion
...

Honestly I don't get this sort of "optimism." I really think many people on here overestimate the level of impact playable High Elves would make on the population as a whole.
Blood elves were added to get more people to join Horde

I think it’s safe to say many people would be drawn to the most played race in the game if it were on the Alliance side


I do not think it's "safe to say" really. Are Blood Elves popular because they are just the most popular race overall, or is it tied to being the most attractive choice *on the horde*

Do we really have so many self hating Blood Elves that would faction swap if HE became playable on the Alliance? I really think people overestimate the impact, as if the Horde had BE hostage when my most accounts, most BE players are happy to be on the Horde.

If HE become playable... BE will REMAIN playable, so I don't get the "massive exodus" argument. Does it really suck to be Horde that much? No, I love the horde, wouldn't race change my characters. The people that care more about gameplay? Neither would change since yeah, the Horde has always been perceived to have more advantages both PvE and PvP wise.

So who would be actually mass race changing to be alliance beyond those DIE HARD HE fans that refused to already make a VE because it was "the next best thing?"
None arguments and moving goalpost...

Boy, the people against High Elves sure don't paint themselves in a good light lately.

But please everyone. Try not to stoop to that level.

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