The Unofficial High Elf Discussion Megathread

General Discussion
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11/15/2018 04:30 AMPosted by Pepino

High Elves, Ogres, Wildhammer, Vyrkul are all Allied Races being requested, this will bring back more players, especially those who want to be those races and have been waiting, people need to understand visuals/customisation and diversity is was what WoW needs the most now especially to compete with other games which have gorgeous customisation and graphics...


I love WoW but I have to write its character creator an F-

There's no reason for it to be limited in such a way.

This entire discussion would be pointless if you could just pick a "race" and then pick a faction of said race. Every faction would have one unique ability while the rest are all shared. Every faction would have some unique customization options. Every racial faction would default to either the Horde or Alliance or even neutral if it makes sense.

This would open doors to combinations not thought of before beyond just High Elves.

The Allied Race system is just too limiting, and Blizzard really needs to do a better job of nurturing character attachment.

I've been playing my Void Elf priest a lot lately cause I really like the whole Light/Void balance thing for my Warcraft 3 priest... but I had to go above and beyond to make the fantasy work.

Meanwhile my Human Mage has plenty of background from Dalaran to all the human mages in lore. I'm going to return this guy to a Human because I miss the aesthetics and lore.

Perhaps it's not the biggest deal to many people, but what I spend my time on really matters to me. Given the popularity of transmogs, I'd wager most people feel the same.
11/15/2018 05:26 AMPosted by Mythlor
11/15/2018 04:30 AMPosted by Pepino

High Elves, Ogres, Wildhammer, Vyrkul are all Allied Races being requested, this will bring back more players, especially those who want to be those races and have been waiting, people need to understand visuals/customisation and diversity is was what WoW needs the most now especially to compete with other games which have gorgeous customisation and graphics...


I love WoW but I have to write its character creator an F-

There's no reason for it to be limited in such a way.

This entire discussion would be pointless if you could just pick a "race" and then pick a faction of said race. Every faction would have one unique ability while the rest are all shared. Every faction would have some unique customization options. Every racial faction would default to either the Horde or Alliance or even neutral if it makes sense.

This would open doors to combinations not thought of before beyond just High Elves.

The Allied Race system is just too limiting, and Blizzard really needs to do a better job of nurturing character attachment.

I've been playing my Void Elf priest a lot lately cause I really like the whole Light/Void balance thing for my Warcraft 3 priest... but I had to go above and beyond to make the fantasy work.

Meanwhile my Human Mage has plenty of background from Dalaran to all the human mages in lore. I'm going to return this guy to a Human because I miss the aesthetics and lore.

Perhaps it's not the biggest deal to many people, but what I spend my time on really matters to me. Given the popularity of transmogs, I'd wager most people feel the same.


I think i am misunderstanding your post, maybe it's cus im only on my third cup of coffee and its only 8:33AM. Are you saying each race should get to choose which faction they should be on?
11/15/2018 05:34 AMPosted by Grabmytotem


I think i am misunderstanding your post, maybe it's cus im only on my third cup of coffee and its only 8:33AM. Are you saying each race should get to choose which faction they should be on?


No.

The problem with the current implementation is that it doesn't leave any room for intraracial factional differences, all while attempting to represent that in a very weak manner.

The "subraces" idea would have been far more successful than this, and would have given Blizzard the ability to add subcustomization options with little pomp and circumstance.

Now we have "slots" to fill and people argue about anything. It also makes every new race a "candidate" for an Allied Race, inadvertently making some of these "factions" less appealing.

We should have been able to just pick a race to start, then choose a faction within that race to start, and then be associated with the Alliance or Horde based on those choices.

So Blood Elves would be renamed to ... let's say Thalassian.

Then if you pick Thalassian you get to choose between Blood Elves, Void Elves, and High Elves.

Blood Elves are Horde.
High Elves are Alliance.
Void Elves have no default faction. You can go either Horde or Alliance.

Now you have room for more "subraces" too. Undead High Elves could make an appearance. San'layn.

Night Elves could get an Undead Night Elf "subrace" for the Horde.

And the only differences would be aesthetic and one unique ability difference just to establish that distinction.

The "new" races would just be new races out of this scope. Vulpera would fall under a new race as would Sethrak. That they use existing animation rigs is arbitrary. That's not what should define a race.

In other words, the character creation system is divided on character animations at this point. Nothing else, when it should be about the lore of the character.
11/14/2018 04:53 PMPosted by Softsong


"If you want to be a fair skinned, light haired, blue eyed elf...sorry, the horde is there waiting for you"

-Game Director Ion Hazzikostas


Man, the fact that Ion said that must really burn. <3


Why. Why. I thought you have enough maturity, but you went completely downhill. Using the very statement that started a wave of toxicity against High Elves, it's funny cause you seems to like them more than anything. And right now you aren't exactly adding anything to the discussion, linking a dumb line said by the game director that most of the community hate. In the end, it seems like you are coming here just to demoralize people that want HE as playable allied race, negating it so you can have your blue eye customization for your personal HE roleplay on the horde (HE on the horde, seriously?).
11/15/2018 05:34 AMPosted by Grabmytotem


I think i am misunderstanding your post, maybe it's cus im only on my third cup of coffee and its only 8:33AM. Are you saying each race should get to choose which faction they should be on?


No.

The problem with the current implementation is that it doesn't leave any room for intraracial factional differences, all while attempting to represent that in a very weak manner.

The "subraces" idea would have been far more successful than this, and would have given Blizzard the ability to add subcustomization options with little pomp and circumstance.
11/14/2018 06:09 PMPosted by Fliktarg
I like how the anti's can't think of an argument against the fact high elves have lived in human kingdoms for thousands of years and don't associate themselves with quel'thelas even pre warcraft 1 timeline wise as well as their population likely being larger than that of the survivors of quel'thelas after the scourge invasion.

They don't have an argument against it so they just pretend it doesn't exist.


Awww, I guess facts do not apply to your logic then, lol. Esp since you pros love to argue against facts that dont work in your favor.

It's ok, I understand. Your opinions.
11/14/2018 04:53 PMPosted by Softsong


...

Man, the fact that Ion said that must really burn. <3


Why. Why. I thought you have enough maturity, but you went completely downhill. Using the very statement that started a wave of toxicity against High Elves, it's funny cause you seems to like them more than anything. And right now you aren't exactly adding anything to the discussion, linking a dumb line said by the game director that most of the community hate. In the end, it seems like you are coming here just to demoralize people that want HE as playable allied race, negating it so you can have your blue eye customization for your personal HE roleplay on the horde (HE on the horde, seriously?).

And here is where we come down to the folly of the helf threads: the lack of talking points which narratively drive it.

Most of them have been talked to death, and without any new info towards anything high elf related...there is nothing really new to talk about.

As much as you guys hate Ion, hes your lead game director too. Meaning he probably has the final say in anything. A candid comment about it has worth to it, when you basically are the face of the game design.

All we have gotten was the fringe possibility of high elf customization to void elves...with an acknowledgement to these threads.

That is all. Nothing new.

Just give it a rest.
11/15/2018 04:30 AMPosted by Pepino
Just saying that High Elves have been requested for 14 years and going strong, what I’d never understand is people against adding more races to a game....

This game use to be immersive, when your character was unique, I grown attached my character and people are looking for their race to grow with, I have no idea why people are against diversity in a video game, who are you to say “no you can’t play this race”, like get a grip...

If anything this game going to be 14 years old and should have more races, more customisation for both original and Allied Races, WoW is living in its own shadow and when people are against adding customisations and races your the reason why we are still in this shadow...

World of Warcraft needs to aim forward and progress, not continue what it’s been doing for 14 years, people will get bored, why do you think sub numbers are down?, most my friends have left for better things because every wow expansion it’s the same... I’m sorry but the “same” isn’t going to make WoW more popular, change has to happen...

Why do you think activision-blizzard is expanding into mobiles? Because it needs change to thrive what we have already is slowly fading.. it just pains me to see that the people arguing against adding races and more class combinations...they are the reason why this game is slowly dying.. don’t you realise this?.

High Elves, Ogres, Wildhammer, Vyrkul are all Allied Races being requested, this will bring back more players, especially those who want to be those races and have been waiting, people need to understand visuals/customisation and diversity is was what WoW needs the most now especially to compete with other games which have gorgeous customisation and graphics...

We should stick together and make changes happen not split into two groups bickering back and forth, we need change.. we need more, I’d hate to see WoW fade and stay in the shadow it’s already sad to see many guilds disbanding because players aren’t renewing subs.. I’m for High Elves and every Allied Race, I don’t mind you know why? Because if I don’t like that race I just won’t play as one and let the people enjoy themselves.....IN A VIDEO GAME..


You are a hero. I just don't agree on the mobile thing for reasons.
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The argument that High Elves have no culture of their own [Iratio - doesn't mention Void Elves, so what follows isn't a counter point, it's mis-direction]
when Void Elves where BE just less than a year ago and their "culture" boils to being forcefully changed it's so disingenuous.

High Elves have been living, assimilating into other cultures, that by DEFINITION changes their culture. To say [Iratio - I'm quoted above, what I say is they have no distinct culture - notice you used the plural form of cultures - and I don't say their culture is the same as the blood elves. The text that follows gives us another mis-direction - no counter point here]they have the same culture than Blood Elves literally dismisses their different context.

High Elf culture, or call it Silver Coveanant culture if the semantics bother you, is staying in the alliance, in a human city, over returning to Quel'thalas, and maybe it's also porking humans.[Iratio - Thanks, yes maybe this, that, all over the place - as I'm quoted above, no distinct culture (as for semantics - since we all know what you mean by High elves, let's use 'High elves' ]

Really, the claim that HE have no culture when the reasons they are no longer part of Blood Elves because of of ideological and political differences is so... silly.[Iratio - calling a point I didn't make silly is not a counter point - I've claimed they lack a distinct culture qua High elves]

Highvale Elves even have their own light/nature thing going on, and the SC is a highly militant Dalarani group. What of their culture even remotely resembles Blood Elven culture?[Iratio - no counter point here, High elf culture being the equivalent of Blood elf culture was never claimed or said]


Belf culture not equal to HE culture - check, if anyone claims there is no HE culture they are being silly - check, any claim that HE have not been "assimilating into other cultures" "literally dismisses their different context" - check, it's "disingenuous" to claim HE have no culture and use Void elves for contrast - check.

No compelling argument for, and no riposte or counter argument to the argument against.

I don't blame anyone for employing rhetoric, the topic can't survive a strictly rational discussion.


You claimed that High Elves have "no distinct culture", I am saying that by nature of their way of life their culture IS distinct to any other.

And I'm not bringing Void Elves because you did, I am bringing them up because Blizzard did. You cannot say "High Elves are not distinct enough, they don't have a nation or a culture of their own" when Void Elves neither pass either of those litmus tests and yet they are playable just because they are aesthetically different. And that can be too changed on High Elves
11/15/2018 06:06 AMPosted by Crøwley
11/14/2018 06:09 PMPosted by Fliktarg
I like how the anti's can't think of an argument against the fact high elves have lived in human kingdoms for thousands of years and don't associate themselves with quel'thelas even pre warcraft 1 timeline wise as well as their population likely being larger than that of the survivors of quel'thelas after the scourge invasion.

They don't have an argument against it so they just pretend it doesn't exist.


Awww, I guess facts do not apply to your logic then, lol. Esp since you pros love to argue against facts that dont work in your favor.

It's ok, I understand. Your opinions.


When was the last time you brought up any facts to the discussion TBH? Like for real, all I see you do is trying to take the piss out people without saying anything of substance.
11/15/2018 07:17 AMPosted by Talendrion
When was the last time you brought up any facts to the discussion TBH? Like for real, all I see you do is trying to take the piss out people without saying anything of substance.
They also have been acting rather smug towards others with differing opinions then them and behaving in a manner where their take on High Elves has no invalid facts to them even though High Elves have been a staple for the Alliance since the RTS days.
11/15/2018 04:25 AMPosted by Lorithyn
...
I did do the Broken hilt Quest on both sides. The only confrontation between the elves is present between the Silver Covenant and the Sunreavers, not Auric Sunchaser, the High Elf pilgrims, and the Blood elves. There is no dialogue, or body language that suggests otherwise. The High elf pilgrims are walking around, and milling about with the Blood Elves, bathing in the light of the Sunwell. They are not be cornered, or harassed, or showing any signs of discomfort of fear for their well being.

Please, if you're going to make such claims I would ask you provide proof beyond just your word. You've responded with empty conjecture several times and have ignored everything I've said to repeat the same things. I ask for proof of your claim, not another post with another uncited claim.


Notice how quickly the Blood Elves are to jump to conclusions and blame Auric and the player for Quel'delar rejecting Lor'themar. Something went wrong, and they immediately shout, "Auric, what is the meaning of this?!" to which Auric explains that it was Lor'themar's fault, and that Quel'delar chooses it's user. They then tell Auric to watch his tongue. I don't know about you, but I definitely sensed some hostility there

Unless I'm remembering it wrong...?

But this has nothing to do with High elves specifically, as they blame both Auric AND the player, regardless of faction. You could be a Horde character, and they'd still seize you. And when a Sin'dorei returns the blade, it shows the exact opposite, they show just how welcoming they are of Auric, agreeing with him over his sentiment of unification of all the elves.


<span class="truncated">...</span>
Man, the fact that Ion said that must really burn. <3


WeW. I get that people are starting to really get passionate over the topic at hand, but once we start getting passive aggressive with one another, it hurts your credibility and sincerity while also making a slippery slope that goes straight from being somewhat productive and an interesting topic, to just plain old mud flinging that will only further entrench everyone to their base opinions.

It's safe to say that while you have evidence to support your claim that there are some sympathetic High Elves that wish to rejoin with their people, there are just as many, if not more counter points to ensure that this peaceful resolution never comes to pass.

When comments like what I just read above start sprouting, it's clear that there really isn't anything left of value to be shared on the subject, and nobody is going to likely agree with anyone else. I suggest that people agree to disagree on this subject and just let it go.

My argument has never been that "All High elves love blood elves" merely that there have been enough occasions in game that suggest that not all High elves feel as negatively about them as others. And that this opens many doors and possibilities of the two races unifying once again. The close cultural parallel between the High elves and Blood elves back when the Sunwell was destroyed is very similar to the new Void elves, which could offer up some interesting developments.

And according to the "passive aggressive" part of your post, you can thank your friend Drede for that. The first time he quoted me, his post was filled to the brim with snide, passive aggressive insults. Even went as far as to try to attack my guild name and transmog, as if his post wasn't petty enough. I enjoy talking about this with people when they aren't forcibly shoving their opinions down people's throats, or cherry picking information and refusing to acknowledge common lore. I appreciate your ability to be objective, and sincere though.

edit
In truth, I love High elves, but I would much rather them become playable on the Horde through Blood Elf customization, then corrupted by the Void. I've always seen them as the elves that refused to allow themselves to be corrupted by foul magic, and them embracing the void would sort of play against everything they stood for.

My original post (before Drede turned into it a petty mud-throwing contest) was a theory that would allow for HE customization for Void elves and Blood Elves without denigrating their story, while also allowing players to live the High elf fantasy.
...

Notice how quickly the Blood Elves are to jump to conclusions and blame Auric and the player for Quel'delar rejecting Lor'themar. Something went wrong, and they immediately shout, "Auric, what is the meaning of this?!" to which Auric explains that it was Lor'themar's fault, and that Quel'delar chooses it's user. They then tell Auric to watch his tongue. I don't know about you, but I definitely sensed some hostility there

Unless I'm remembering it wrong...?

But this has nothing to do with High elves specifically, as they blame both Auric AND the player, regardless of faction. You could be a Horde character, and they'd still seize you. And when a Sin'dorei returns the blade, it shows the exact opposite, they show just how welcoming they are of Auric, agreeing with him over his sentiment of unification of all the elves.

I'm guessing the blood elf version is the canon one.
cya in 8 hours or soi

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