Felblade is so great, it should be baseline

Demon Hunter
Felblade is SO amazing. It works as a gap closer and resource generator. It makes me feel so much more... empowered when playing my DH. It should be baseline, specially because it competes with the talent that makes Eye Beam do more damage.

I love to use it as a opener, since then, with 40 Fury, I can use any other damaging ability right away.

Also, it is so awesome! Have I told this before? ;-)
I hate felblade but if it was baseline I wouldn't mind it.

I would rather have fel barrage baseline tbh
I use felblade since I chose demon blades...almost necessary.
would break us in PvP. Demonic is already a strong enough talent.
I think demon blades AND felblade should be baseline, the combo feels very illidan-ish. Demons bite I can do without and I think should be removed.
10/04/2018 08:23 AMPosted by Menace
I think demon blades AND felblade should be baseline, the combo feels very illidan-ish. Demons bite I can do without and I think should be removed.


Yeah, at very least, demon blades should be baseline. We're the only "rage" mechanic class that has to spec into generation through auto attacks. I suggested this back at the beginning of legion, but it was too good of an idea, and the devs don't want to be outdone by the people that actually like this game. Seriously though, if the devs cared at all about what people wanted from all of the classes, we wouldn't have these dumbsh*t problems we have with this expansion. They only care as far as your money carries you, beyond that, you are nothing.
Felblade only feels worthwhile if you're struggling to connect with your target, like a kiting class, otherwise its not good compared to blind.
Talents being desirable don't mean they should be baseline, it just means they are effective talents. You should want to use each of the talents on a tier in certain circumstances. Talents actually requiring you to make a decision, and that decision actually being kinda hard because you want multiple talents on that tier, is a good thing. It means the talent system is, for a rare change, working as intended.

What defines whether a talent should be baseline is if the class feels hollow or feels like it has a hole in its kit without that talent. And Felblade doesn't fit that bill, since we already have plenty of mobility and plenty of fury generation options. It would, perhaps, increase the complexity of the base rotation, but given that the absolute minimum number of buttons you can have in your baseline rotation, once you account for talents, is 4 (Chaos Strike and Eye Beam, plus either Demon's Bite or Throw Glaive (depending on whether you took Demon Blades) and Blade Dance, Fel Rush, or Fel Barrage, depending on your T100 selection), and all of the dominant specs having at least 5, I don't see how one could argue that our kit is missing anything that Felblade fills either.

10/04/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Zhoe
Yeah, at very least, demon blades should be baseline. We're the only "rage" mechanic class that has to spec into generation through auto attacks.


It's a talent because there's a not-insignificant proportion of the DH community (myself amongst them) that hate Demon Blades. One of the things I like most about DH is that my resource generation is directly under my control, instead of me just having to sit there and wait on it to passively occur. If I wanted passive resource generation, I'd go play an arms warrior, a rogue, or a feral druid. There are in fact precious few melee classes that have entirely active resource generation: Havoc, Retribution, and Fury. All of the rest have a significant portion of their rotation or ability usage metered by some passive generation mechanic. I'd very much rather Demon Blades remain a talent, so those that prefer that playstyle can have it, and those that don't aren't forced into it.

And that's really the point I'm trying to make here. Talent exist to customize your playstyle. In an ideal world, where all talents are perfectly balanced, you'd choose talents based on the gameplay you prefer and the content you're running. And for DH, we're actually surprisingly close to that ideal, given how close the 3 dominant builds are, and how wildly different their playstyles are. Just because you prefer a certain playstyle doesn't mean it should be mandatory for everyone playing the class.
10/04/2018 01:54 PMPosted by Xaedys
Talents being desirable don't mean they should be baseline, it just means they are effective talents. You should want to use each of the talents on a tier in certain circumstances. Talents actually requiring you to make a decision, and that decision actually being kinda hard because you want multiple talents on that tier, is a good thing. It means the talent system is, for a rare change, working as intended.

What defines whether a talent should be baseline is if the class feels hollow or feels like it has a hole in its kit without that talent. And Felblade doesn't fit that bill, since we already have plenty of mobility and plenty of fury generation options. It would, perhaps, increase the complexity of the base rotation, but given that the absolute minimum number of buttons you can have in your baseline rotation, once you account for talents, is 4 (Chaos Strike and Eye Beam, plus either Demon's Bite or Throw Glaive (depending on whether you took Demon Blades) and Blade Dance, Fel Rush, or Fel Barrage, depending on your T100 selection), and all of the dominant specs having at least 5, I don't see how one could argue that our kit is missing anything that Felblade fills either.

10/04/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Zhoe
Yeah, at very least, demon blades should be baseline. We're the only "rage" mechanic class that has to spec into generation through auto attacks.


It's a talent because there's a not-insignificant proportion of the DH community (myself amongst them) that hate Demon Blades. One of the things I like most about DH is that my resource generation is directly under my control, instead of me just having to sit there and wait on it to passively occur. If I wanted passive resource generation, I'd go play an arms warrior, a rogue, or a feral druid. There are in fact precious few melee classes that have entirely active resource generation: Havoc, Retribution, and Fury. All of the rest have a significant portion of their rotation or ability usage metered by some passive generation mechanic. I'd very much rather Demon Blades remain a talent, so those that prefer that playstyle can have it, and those that don't aren't forced into it.

And that's really the point I'm trying to make here. Talent exist to customize your playstyle. In an ideal world, where all talents are perfectly balanced, you'd choose talents based on the gameplay you prefer and the content you're running. And for DH, we're actually surprisingly close to that ideal, given how close the 3 dominant builds are, and how wildly different their playstyles are. Just because you prefer a certain playstyle doesn't mean it should be mandatory for everyone playing the class.


This guy has the right idea, HOWEVER I strongly believe that warglaives slow should be baseline.
10/04/2018 03:19 PMPosted by Maja
This guy has the right idea, HOWEVER I strongly believe that warglaives slow should be baseline.


See, that's utility enough that I can't really contest it. It's not exactly insanely compelling as a talent choice. Most people grab that talent for the double charges for DPS purposes (in a Demon Blades build), not for the slow.
10/04/2018 08:23 AMPosted by Menace
I think demon blades AND felblade should be baseline, the combo feels very illidan-ish. Demons bite I can do without and I think should be removed.
I think you also forgotten a basic fact: as talent, Demon Blades is tuned to be better than Demon's Bite baseline. Else what is the point of being a talent?

The other way of looking at this, is that if Demon Blades does becomes baseline, one of 2 things will happen:
1, Demon's Bite as the talent will become fairly, if not insanely strong. Active talents should be better than passive, right?
2, Demon Blades gets a substantial nerf to fall in line, or even worse: It gets a baseline nerf, and then some of that power is put as a talent to make it whole again.

Expect to see this:
Demon Blades - Your auto attacks have a 40% chance to deal additional Shadow damage and generate Fury.
Insatiable Hunger - Your auto attacks now have a 20% increased chance to proc Demon Blades.
I absolutely HATE demons bite, and refuse to play without demon blades
10/07/2018 08:15 AMPosted by Sistikk
I absolutely HATE demons bite, and refuse to play without demon blades


And I'm the opposite. I ran Demonic even during Nighthold when Chaos Blades + Demon Blades was seen as the "only option" (despite the different between the two only being ~2-3%), simply because I loathed the passive generation and dead GCDs so much (I run Fury over Arms on my warrior for the same reason).

And this, this is why Demon Blades is a talent. Because some people hate having it, and some people hate not having it. This is why I still continue to laugh when people keep trying to claim it (or Momentum or a number of other annoying talents) should be baseline.
I used to enjoy the CB/Nem dump window and kind of easy playstyle, but I fell in love with Demonic in Antorus and haven’t looked back. Pressing a builder, to me, is worth it for making the fun and engaging spec playable.
10/04/2018 01:54 PMPosted by Xaedys
Talents being desirable don't mean they should be baseline, it just means they are effective talents. You should want to use each of the talents on a tier in certain circumstances. Talents actually requiring you to make a decision, and that decision actually being kinda hard because you want multiple talents on that tier, is a good thing. It means the talent system is, for a rare change, working as intended.

What defines whether a talent should be baseline is if the class feels hollow or feels like it has a hole in its kit without that talent. And Felblade doesn't fit that bill, since we already have plenty of mobility and plenty of fury generation options. It would, perhaps, increase the complexity of the base rotation, but given that the absolute minimum number of buttons you can have in your baseline rotation, once you account for talents, is 4 (Chaos Strike and Eye Beam, plus either Demon's Bite or Throw Glaive (depending on whether you took Demon Blades) and Blade Dance, Fel Rush, or Fel Barrage, depending on your T100 selection), and all of the dominant specs having at least 5, I don't see how one could argue that our kit is missing anything that Felblade fills either.

10/04/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Zhoe
Yeah, at very least, demon blades should be baseline. We're the only "rage" mechanic class that has to spec into generation through auto attacks.


It's a talent because there's a not-insignificant proportion of the DH community (myself amongst them) that hate Demon Blades. One of the things I like most about DH is that my resource generation is directly under my control, instead of me just having to sit there and wait on it to passively occur. If I wanted passive resource generation, I'd go play an arms warrior, a rogue, or a feral druid. There are in fact precious few melee classes that have entirely active resource generation: Havoc, Retribution, and Fury. All of the rest have a significant portion of their rotation or ability usage metered by some passive generation mechanic. I'd very much rather Demon Blades remain a talent, so those that prefer that playstyle can have it, and those that don't aren't forced into it.

And that's really the point I'm trying to make here. Talent exist to customize your playstyle. In an ideal world, where all talents are perfectly balanced, you'd choose talents based on the gameplay you prefer and the content you're running. And for DH, we're actually surprisingly close to that ideal, given how close the 3 dominant builds are, and how wildly different their playstyles are. Just because you prefer a certain playstyle doesn't mean it should be mandatory for everyone playing the class.


And if demon blades was just there, without having to make a decision, always working WITH whatever else you choose, you would still hate it? I find it hard to believe there are many DHs out there that wouldn't enjoy more passive generation without giving up a single thing.
10/07/2018 02:51 PMPosted by Zhoe
And if demon blades was just there, without having to make a decision, always working WITH whatever else you choose, you would still hate it? I find it hard to believe there are many DHs out there that wouldn't enjoy more passive generation without giving up a single thing.


I would straight up choose a different class. I am not a fan of most passive regen classes. Rogues I can tolerate because they have a secondary resource to handle that's active (combo points), same with monks. But neither are really a favorite of mine. The ones I enjoy most in BfA so far are Fury, Balance, Destruction, and Marksmanship, and all of those are defined by having either entirely or mostly active resource generation.

Again, just because you enjoy a mechanic doesn't mean everyone does. That's why talents exist, to enable you to choose your gameplay. Would you be a fan if I decided that active generation was central to the class, and Demon Blades should just go away entirely? Of Demon Blades wasn't even an option, had never been created, would you still play DH?
No to literally all of this. Dh is perfect how it is right now.
I used to enjoy the CB/Nem dump window and kind of easy playstyle, but I fell in love with Demonic in Antorus and haven’t looked back. Pressing a builder, to me, is worth it for making the fun and engaging spec playable.


i lol'ed

cuz you know, pressing 3 buttons is fun and engaging
10/08/2018 08:42 AMPosted by Kairuimi
i lol'ed

cuz you know, pressing 3 buttons is fun and engaging


The minimum rotation has 4 buttons, and the dominant Demonic builds has 5. But keep trying.

And Demon Blades as a talent is defined by removing a button from the rotation (or more precisely, replacing that button with Throw Glaive as a filler for the dead GCDs is causes). Don't act like Demon Blades is more complex. It's substantially less so, because you don't have to decide on each global whether to generate or consume, you just spam consumers.
I use felblade because it positions me properly right after I fel rush so I can start wrecking all the things.

Honestly, if it wasn't for the positioning mechanic, I wouldn't use it. I don't use it as a gap closer at all. I have way more mobility than any other class already - another way to close a gap is just not necessary. However fel rushing through a target, vengeful retreating for more deeps, then fel blade to be within melee range - that's convenient.

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