MM Hunter PTR 8.1 updates.

Hunter
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https://www.wowhead.com/bluetracker?topic=20769707637
Anything is better than current state. Some exciting changes.

Aimed Shot's cast time and immobility is still going to be a real challenge I think. And not in a good, fun way.

Look forward to playing around with the changes.
God if it can get me to spec out of BM it will be perfect. I still want mobile Aimed Shot cast though.
So our only competitive build just got nuked. Cute. Rerolling.
10/17/2018 06:37 PMPosted by Shotwide
https://www.wowhead.com/bluetracker?topic=20769707637


Bursting shot knock increase is super needed, but...

Rapid Fire has had some usability problems in PvP. Most other channeled spells will continue to deal damage when your target runs behind a pillar and breaks line of sight, but Rapid Fire requires constant line of sight. We’re changing that, and now it will behave like almost every other channeled spell that players cast, and will continue to damage a target, even if the target is no longer in line of sight. We also think it’s cool to be able to use Disengage while channeling Rapid Fire, so now you can.


I shouldn't have used all of my Vince McMahon gifs already.

I am so excited for this
Yes...the rapid fire + disengage sounds like "whoa".....that might prove to be very interesting from a pvp standpoint.

As I said earlier, I have NEVER played MM. My entire career on WoW, and that has been since day 1 of Mannoroth coming online. These changes do sound interesting though...and its good to know that the dev's did not leave MM in the "it's ok" for this expac.
These are decent changes but PVP wise MM still needs a few more changes.

Scatter Shot - Needs to come off of the Trap DR and made a baseline ability like Intimidation is baseline for the other two hunter specs.

Reintroduction of Kill shot - Same idea as in MoP where it did around the same damage as an aimed shot but didn't cost focus and had a slightly longer range than other shots. Only use able on 25% or bellow?

I think the Scatter change is 100% necessary
10/18/2018 07:54 AMPosted by Sako
These are decent changes but PVP wise MM still needs a few more changes.

Scatter Shot - Needs to come off of the Trap DR and made a baseline ability like Intimidation is baseline for the other two hunter specs.

Reintroduction of Kill shot - Same idea as in MoP where it did around the same damage as an aimed shot but didn't cost focus and had a slightly longer range than other shots. Only use able on 25% or bellow?

I think the Scatter change is 100% necessary

I agree and I think I'll post my thoughts from another thread in here, too...

I feel like all we need now is...
- Trick Shots proccing off of 2 targets, down from 3.
- The following talents to be adjusted or outright changed.
    Trailblazer - Maybe a passive 10% movement speed and have focus spent lower CD of Aspect of the Cheetah by 1 second per 10 focus spent. Additionally, swap the location of this and binding shot in the talent trees.

    Born to be Wild - Increase it's current effects to 30% and have it also affect disengage.

    Serpent Sting - If they're dead-set on us not having chimaera shot, just let us refresh the duration with arcane and multi-shot... or at the very least, aimed shot. (I'd like the former for some fun cleave mechanics, but if trick shots aimed ricochets would work, I'd be fine with that too.)

    Piercing shot - Have it buffed with precise shots.

    Hunter’s mark tweak - As it's in the "focus regen tier" how about having it refund half of the focus spent on arcane and multi-shot on the marked target?

    LnL - Make it baseline and put kill shot in its place.


- Also take scatter off of the trap dr already. I'd like to see anyone try and trap a druid these days. Go ahead, try.
10/18/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Yjjial
Trick Shots proccing off of 2 targets, down from 3.
This is 100% essential from an "intuitive" perspective. Trick Shots is a poor mechanism compared to Legions rather smooth AoE, but the absolute worst part of it is the utterly jarring, counter-intuitive gameplay and complete nonsense that is the 3 target thing.

10/18/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Yjjial
Trailblazer - Maybe a passive 10% movement speed and have focus spent lower CD of Aspect of the Cheetah by 1 second per 10 focus spent. Additionally, swap the location of this and binding shot in the talent trees.
Trailblazer is so useless and Camo so essential (in PvP) I don't actually want them to change it. Of course that is selfish, and Trailblazer 100% needs to change. They could just make it like old Aspect of the Cheetah, though your proposal would likely be sufficient to be competitive.

10/18/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Yjjial
Born to be Wild - Increase it's current effects to 30% and have it also affect disengage.
Make that 50% which would make it almost the exact same as Crouching Tiger, Hidden Chimera and you have yourself a deal. THAT would be competitive with Posthaste, though as we saw in MoP/WoD, only barely.

They are so out of touch with the current version (just like Trailblazer) it boggles the mind.

10/18/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Yjjial
Serpent Sting - If they're dead-set on us not having chimaera shot, just let us refresh the duration with arcane and multi-shot... or at the very least, aimed shot. (I'd like the former for some fun cleave mechanics, but if trick shots aimed ricochets would work, I'd be fine with that too.)
Unfortunately, Serpent Sting just can't be competitive as long as Precise Shots exists. It has substantial clipping from it. If it had a refresh mechanism it would alleviate that problem substantially. Removing Precise Shots would do that as well.

I would rather Serpent Sting just lasted longer. 12s is just so short. Make it cost 15 focus and last 18s and it would feel much nicer, while being near the same contribution to DPS. It would be a little higher since you gain a global, but that is just filler global so the difference is minimal. Plus, Serpent Sting is behind AMoC for ST so it could use a small boost.

Of course they need to remove Precise Shots (or reduce Precise Shots to only one proc) for it to work at all.

10/18/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Yjjial
Piercing shot - Have it buffed with precise shots.
Piercing Shot is a DPS LOSS to use in a normal rotation. It needs to be COMPLETELY redesigned. This is also the talent that suffers the most from Precise Shot clipping.

Take Piercing Shot and Serpent Sting, cast them on CD, and wonder why your DPS has tanked over having no talents at all.

10/18/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Yjjial
Hunter’s mark tweak - As it's in the "focus regen tier" how about having it refund half of the focus spent on arcane and multi-shot on the marked target?
Hunter's Mark should be like it used to be. Baseline, a minor DPS increase (1% ish) and usable from stealth! Why this breaks Camo is beyond me. Nothing breaks Camo.

Regardless of that mini-rant, your proposal makes a lot of sense mechanically and thematically, though half the focus might be too much. I would need to model it.

10/18/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Yjjial
LnL - Make it baseline and put kill shot in its place.


Better yet, make LnL AND Kill Shot baseline, and increase the proc chance on LnL. The reason LnL has such a low proc chance was because of how much damage was tied up in Aimed. Most of this problem lies, once again, with Precise Shots.

Precise Shots needs to go, and all that damage needs to be put into its own god damned shot.

10/18/2018 08:21 AMPosted by Yjjial
Also take scatter off of the trap dr already.
For sure.

As a final comment, Camo should be baseline, and there should be a permanent Camo talent. The healing can go (or stay, it is nice, its just not important). I hate feeling like a hunter only half the time.
I'm happy with all the changes except for lethal shots. Most of our dmg comes from that talent... Means our stat priority will switch completely from haste/mastery to haste/crit probably?

At first glance it seemed like we were getting a massive buff... now I'm not so sure. I'm really concerned with lethal shots change.
From what I barely tested on the PTR it seems that we will be able to use rapid fire during a Trueshot window every five seconds. This coupled with some of the talent changes and the new azerite trait seem to imply that blizz is switching a lot of focus towards rapid fire.

Not sure if this is a good thing or not but a rapid fire heavy playstyle could be interesting in a pvp setting since it will be a much more mobile build.
10/18/2018 09:09 AMPosted by Kølach
I'm happy with all the changes except for lethal shots. Most of our dmg comes from that talent...
Do you not see a fundamental problem with most of our damage coming from one talent?

And really, it wasn't just "one talent". It was a combination of all the things that made steady shot spam the best way to play MM. It was BROKEN by any measure of healthy gameplay, and yet barely doing enough DPS to be competitive. The Lethal Shot change was essential. The replacement is still crap, but only because its a "chance to function" instead of an actual function.

Yes DPS will almost certainly go down. And then damage will be adjusted to make us competitive, with more interesting gameplay.
10/18/2018 09:58 AMPosted by Masoschism
10/18/2018 09:09 AMPosted by Kølach
I'm happy with all the changes except for lethal shots. Most of our dmg comes from that talent...
Do you not see a fundamental problem with most of our damage coming from one talent?

And really, it wasn't just "one talent". It was a combination of all the things that made steady shot spam the best way to play MM. It was BROKEN by any measure of healthy gameplay, and yet barely doing enough DPS to be competitive. The Lethal Shot change was essential. The replacement is still crap, but only because its a "chance to function" instead of an actual function.

Yes DPS will almost certainly go down. And then damage will be adjusted to make us competitive, with more interesting gameplay.


Going to respectfully disagree. As was stated earlier, we will sit there and stack rapidfire azerite traits instead of steady aim, and spam arcane shot to get rapidfire back. Gameplay will more or less stay the same - spam button until ability / proc happens, use. Rinse and repeat. I'm so used to turret style playing from how gutted shaman mobility was that aimed shot felt fine. Lol
Honestly all this work is not needed. Just shorten cast times. Make the aim shot cast while moving. Add better more spectacular graphics too the spells and finally up the damage. boom done. enough said
10/17/2018 02:15 PMPosted by Masoschism
10/17/2018 02:12 PMPosted by Teriva
When I run MM currently, my damage meter puts Aimed Shot at a 91% crit rate thanks to Lethal Shots. I stack the Steady Aim trait so all of those crits hit really hard. This is where most of my damage comes from.

These changes will put my Aimed Shot crit chance down to 19%. That’s a tremendous loss of damage. I don’t see any offset for that but I hope there will be some.
These changes will tank the currently competitive MM spec in PvE. In the long run, it will be healthier for the spec. I am sure (?) they will make other adjustments as they see the damage is too low.
this is just gonna make them weaker. Unless they have more changes mm deeps will still be lacking
People have asked for less reliance on AiS and I see that.

Less RNG as a whole although still present.

Some changes towards RF and instant cast spells means we gain some mobility.

Now I'm just curious in how this is all going to play out. Steady Aim trait will likely be gutted now that we can't guarantee a crit via steady shot. This is the core of our current PvE damage and works well for me in RBGs. What's going to replace this build and rotation we are currently doing? Is my rotation going to stay the same except without being able to guarantee AiS crits? Because I don't really see an answer to tell me otherwise.

Derp Derp.
10/18/2018 01:13 PMPosted by Sanune
People have asked for less reliance on AiS and I see that.

Less RNG as a whole although still present.

Some changes towards RF and instant cast spells means we gain some mobility.

Now I'm just curious in how this is all going to play out. Steady Aim trait will likely be gutted now that we can't guarantee a crit via steady shot. This is the core of our current PvE damage and works well for me in RBGs. What's going to replace this build and rotation we are currently doing? Is my rotation going to stay the same except without being able to guarantee AiS crits? Because I don't really see an answer to tell me otherwise.

Derp Derp.
Less reliance on AiS is good, but they need to buff it's base damage though. It's garbage without the trait and/or Careful Aim.
10/18/2018 01:13 PMPosted by Sanune
What's going to replace this build and rotation we are currently doing? Is my rotation going to stay the same except without being able to guarantee AiS crits? Because I don't really see an answer to tell me otherwise.

[/quote]

Currently the 3 rapid fire traits do a lot of dmg in arenas if you stack them. The top MM arena people (there aren't many) stack that trait already. There is no changes there... except that Rapid fire is now a TON better as it can go around corners/can be used with disengage/can be used more frequently with talent. PvP MM will not be an issue in its current state I don't think. At least in arenas.

As far as PvE... Our burst went from being among the best top 1-3... I mythic raid... to being very bad without crit. I'd need to do more testing with gear that has high crit because I've been avoiding it this first tier. In 8.1 we'll be able to stack 2 azerite traits if everyone remembers.... So would we stack the two rapid fire traits? Or one of the rapid fire traits/arcane flurry... arcane flurry/steady aim... rapid fire trait/steady aim? We need to see the new gear before figuring out what our rotation will be. Our talents/rotation will depend on the new azerite gear with these changes.

Still sad that we won't have guaranteed crits anymore. Despite the simplicity I really enjoyed the rotation.
Sorry to repost but there's an eye catching azerite trait for MM hunters to enjoy...

Hunter - NEW Quick Casting Your instant cast damaging spells heal you for 784.

If that's in the 3rd tier spot... stacking that would be pretty awesome! with arcane flurry? Might be pretty decent for our survivability... albeit ... wouldn't really help in burst situations.. but over arena matches/pve
10/18/2018 01:32 PMPosted by Kølach


Currently the 3 rapid fire traits do a lot of dmg in arenas if you stack them. The top MM arena people (there aren't many) stack that trait already. There is no changes there... except that Rapid fire is now a TON better as it can go around corners/can be used with disengage/can be used more frequently with talent. PvP MM will not be an issue in its current state I don't think. At least in arenas.

As far as PvE... Our burst went from being among the best top 1-3... I mythic raid... to being very bad without crit. I'd need to do more testing with gear that has high crit because I've been avoiding it this first tier. In 8.1 we'll be able to stack 2 azerite traits if everyone remembers.... So would we stack the two rapid fire traits? Or one of the rapid fire traits/arcane flurry... arcane flurry/steady aim... rapid fire trait/steady aim? We need to see the new gear before figuring out what our rotation will be. Our talents/rotation will depend on the new azerite gear with these changes.

Still sad that we won't have guaranteed crits anymore. Despite the simplicity I really enjoyed the rotation.


I won't call the current meta of azerite /talents for MM to be engaging, but there is indeed some enjoyment in being able to lay down 65-70k burst with an AiS followed by an immediate buffed AS in RBGs. This type of burst is useful in bringing down opponents sitting around 30-45% health and not quite on a healer's eyes.

Same time, this isn't how the spec is supposed to only be played. And yes, there's some changes coming in which is hopefully going to bring an end to this. I have seen the stacking of RF for PvP arena used to some success by Nayrowns (sp?) and his success.

Thinking now, these are just the beginning of changes to our spec. Ultimately, we will see more tweaks and changes added in the coming month. It's good for us to analyze the changes, but it's too early to actually be worried of the outcome.

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