MM Hunter PTR 8.1 updates.

Hunter
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Can we just take a moment to appreciate that with the changes to trueshot that it effectively makes taking the talent Calling the Shots low key worth it as well as azerite traits that effect trueshot also worth it.
As a pvper... I'm excited for these changes to MM.
10/19/2018 12:41 AMPosted by Masoschism
10/19/2018 12:12 AMPosted by Yjjial
increase the cap of precise shots to prevent clipping?
That doesn't prevent clipping. It has to do with the globals and focus Precise Shots uses that don't allow those focus and globals to be used on other things that need them, like talents that cost focus and globals. The more focus and globals a talent uses, the worse it is. That is why Piercing Shot and Serpent Sting are the most affected, and AMoC (at 30 focus and 1 global) is the least affected.

This particular problem with Precise Shots is that it uses up to 12 globals and 180 focus in one minute (at 20% haste). On average its 9 globals and 135 focus. It leaves no room for anything else.

A shot, like old Chimera Shot that cost say, 75 focus and 5 globals per minute that did the same amount of damage as all the Precise Shots damage would leave much more room for focus costing talents.

Even if Precise Shots were reduced to just one proc per Aimed, that would largely solve the problem. It wouldn't solve all the other problems Precise Shots has, but at least the math would work out. Of course, you still couldn't take ALL the focus costing talents (especially Piercing Shot), but at least you could take a couple.
Hmm
My mistake then. I guess I was just under the impression of prices shot "clipping" meant you were wasting stacks. Again, my bad.

So as a tldr, would you, in the simplest terms, say that the gcd and focus cost is the problem of precise shots?
10/19/2018 12:21 PMPosted by Yjjial
So as a tldr, would you, in the simplest terms, say that the gcd and focus cost is the problem of precise shots?
Wrt to this particular problem, yes. Precise Shots just has too high of a chance of taking up too many globals and focus.

Again, if Precise Shots was just ONE modified Arcane, a large part of this problem goes away. It doesn't solve the other two problems with it, but it does open up globals and focus to be spent on talents that require those two things.
10/19/2018 01:33 PMPosted by Masoschism
10/19/2018 12:21 PMPosted by Yjjial
So as a tldr, would you, in the simplest terms, say that the gcd and focus cost is the problem of precise shots?
Wrt to this particular problem, yes. Precise Shots just has too high of a chance of taking up too many globals and focus.

Again, if Precise Shots was just ONE modified Arcane, a large part of this problem goes away. It doesn't solve the other two problems with it, but it does open up globals and focus to be spent on talents that require those two things.
I'm inclined to agree. The global lockdown is definitely a pain on the ptr, not to mention steady shot now has very little reward for casting. (Though, I feel as steady focus needs to be a stacking haste buff that persists between using other shots)
Just did some testing on the PTR and well I think this damage will be nerfed quite a bit. The numbers I am seeing are way too much.

On the PTR I am running with 20% Haste, 17% Mastery, 16% crit and no versatility. Also using Plume of the Seaborne Avian and Dooms Wake trinkets.

Running 2 Surging Shots and 1 Focused fire traits.

So I just used Rapid fire with Double tap and dooms wake at 5 charges, no other shots on a training dummy.

I added up each hit of rapid fire, excluding the blocked amounts.

1st time hit for a total of 347,770
2nd time hit for a total of 314,607
3rd time hit for a total of 285,115
4th time hit for a total of 275,202
5th time hit for a total of 299,606
6th time hit for a total of 357,310

Is someone else able to reproduce these numbers on a dummy? That seems like way too much over 3.3 seconds.
Squuueeeeee!
10/19/2018 03:18 PMPosted by Straferr
Just did some testing on the PTR and well I think this damage will be nerfed quite a bit. The numbers I am seeing are way too much.

On the PTR I am running with 20% Haste, 17% Mastery, 16% crit and no versatility. Also using Plume of the Seaborne Avian and Dooms Wake trinkets.

Running 2 Surging Shots and 1 Focused fire traits.

So I just used Rapid fire with Double tap and dooms wake at 5 charges, no other shots on a training dummy.

I added up each hit of rapid fire, excluding the blocked amounts.

1st time hit for a total of 347,770
2nd time hit for a total of 314,607
3rd time hit for a total of 285,115
4th time hit for a total of 275,202
5th time hit for a total of 299,606
6th time hit for a total of 357,310

Is someone else able to reproduce these numbers on a dummy? That seems like way too much over 3.3 seconds.


Surging Shots is currently broken on PTR. If you want a better idea of where you stand. Test without it.
10/19/2018 03:18 PMPosted by Straferr
Is someone else able to reproduce these numbers on a dummy? That seems like way too much over 3.3 seconds.
It is not working as intended. See here:

https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769537667?page=5#post-90
10/17/2018 02:12 PMPosted by Teriva
10/17/2018 01:59 PMPosted by Moonuredps
Tbh the changes seem to make MM more competitive but is it enough??

Looking at it I doubt it brings it up to anywhere competitive, the numbers seem to of just changed from aim shot to other talents which to me just means MM will still just be bad.


When I run MM currently, my damage meter puts Aimed Shot at a 91% crit rate thanks to Lethal Shots. I stack the Steady Aim trait so all of those crits hit really hard. This is where most of my damage comes from.

These changes will put my Aimed Shot crit chance down to 19%. That’s a tremendous loss of damage. I don’t see any offset for that but I hope there will be some.


Exactly. This isn't a buff.
10/18/2018 08:14 PMPosted by Gunshy
I will say that with two surging shots and one focus fire the damage that rapid fire is putting out is ridiculous. It has taken aimed spot. Now 50% of my damage is coming from that one ability. :)

It is going to shred people in pvp. Nerf inc maybe.


It's a 1 shot with double tap. Since hunters have a history this expansion of being overnerfed I forsee a nerf to both rapid fire and the trait in pvp.even when the trait is fixed.
Just tried it out on PTR, I don't have any solid numbers I was in there to get the feel of it. Honestly, I got mixed feelings about the change. Having so much tied to AiS was a bad thing I'll agree, but so is having a generator being our main source of damage. On the top of it all AiS is weak... very weak. It's gonna need a buff to its base damage badly because if you thought AiS is weak now wait until 8.1.

The Explosive Shot change feels great, no complaints there. It's not like the Old ES but it's better than the meme shot we have now.

Careful Aim needs to move out of the tree with Explosive Shot and Volley, Barrage should be taking it's place. Even if AiS can cleave it doesn't make sense for that talent to be paired against those two.

Curious to see what other changes are gonna be in the future, the spec definitely needs more work on it.
I still don't like that you have to detonate ES. It should just explode on impact.
10/20/2018 10:48 AMPosted by Kirkwood
I still don't like that you have to detonate ES. It should just explode on impact.
You don't have to detonate ES, it detonates itself after 3s which is both thematically and mechanically interesting. It is also targeted, just like any other shot. The 3s delay allows for some very nice burst potential. It couldn't be better imo (not counting bringing back the whole ranged SV playstyle).
Been testing... 2 surging shot traits... 1 focused fire trait; Talents include streamline and calling the shots;

I really like the interaction between all our damaging abilities with this setup. Aimed shot can reset CD of rapid fire, our biggest damaging ability now. With rapid fire as biggest damaging ability it makes our AOE competitive again. Arcane shot and multishot can reduce cd of rapid fire by 5 seconds. Calling the shots allows for arcane shot/multishot to reduce cd of Trueshot. Trueshot allows for rapid turnover of aimed shot and rapid fire.

I found myself hitting arcane shot as much as I could to reduce cd of trueshot. I was using steady shot to get enough focus to cast aimed shot. Was casting rapid fire on CD. Priority Trueshot > Rapid Fire > Aimed Shot > Arcane Shot > Steady Shot.

I liked explosive shot - but I don't think it'll be used in pve... unless heavy aoe fight.

I think rapid fire dmg will be nerfed in pvp... heavily lol. Maybe steady aim will still be the go to in pvp?
Only real gripes i have after testing on the ptr (bugs aside on the new RF trait) would be trueshot still giving an extra charge of aimed shot and just not being able to actually use all of your resources (cd's & procs) during it. I know this is a personal thing, but it bugs the !@#$ out of me over capping procs & spell charges. With master marksman, it didn't feel too bad just doing 1 AS after each AiS and filling with RF when it was up.

Also still not a fan of precise shots, i think having AiS only give 1 stack each time, but letting it stack up to 2 (so you could AiS twice with a L&L proc without wasting procs) with master marksman baseline would feel much nicer.

Would also really like to see lock and load proc off of arcane instead of autos, so we have some control over when it might happen, and probably bump up the proc rate of need be since you're likely casting fewer arcane shots than you are autos.
10/21/2018 12:26 AMPosted by Delythe
Only real gripes i have after testing on the ptr (bugs aside on the new RF trait) would be trueshot still giving an extra charge of aimed shot and just not being able to actually use all of your resources (cd's & procs) during it. I know this is a personal thing, but it bugs the !@#$ out of me over capping procs & spell charges. With master marksman, it didn't feel too bad just doing 1 AS after each AiS and filling with RF when it was up. Also still not a fan of precise shots, i think having AiS only give 1 stack each time, but letting it stack up to 2 (so you could AiS twice with a L&L proc without wasting procs) with master marksman baseline would feel much nicer. Would also really like to see lock and load proc off of arcane instead of autos, so we have some control over when it might happen, and probably bump up the proc rate of need be since you're likely casting fewer arcane shots than you are autos.


I believe calling the shots will be the go to PvE spell... gives more weight to Arcane shot. The changes to trueshot make it a real damage CD now.
10/21/2018 12:59 AMPosted by Kølach
10/21/2018 12:26 AMPosted by Delythe
Only real gripes i have after testing on the ptr (bugs aside on the new RF trait) would be trueshot still giving an extra charge of aimed shot and just not being able to actually use all of your resources (cd's & procs) during it. I know this is a personal thing, but it bugs the !@#$ out of me over capping procs & spell charges. With master marksman, it didn't feel too bad just doing 1 AS after each AiS and filling with RF when it was up. Also still not a fan of precise shots, i think having AiS only give 1 stack each time, but letting it stack up to 2 (so you could AiS twice with a L&L proc without wasting procs) with master marksman baseline would feel much nicer. Would also really like to see lock and load proc off of arcane instead of autos, so we have some control over when it might happen, and probably bump up the proc rate of need be since you're likely casting fewer arcane shots than you are autos.


I believe calling the shots will be the go to PvE spell... gives more weight to Arcane shot. The changes to trueshot make it a real damage CD now.


Would be a nice change since I'm personally not a fan of L&L procing from autos, would much prefer it proced from arcanes, or something YOU controlled.

I do agree that trueshot is in a better state now than it was, it's mostly a personal gripe I have with wasting procs & cd uptime. It just feels bad for me, I know it probably won't bother a majority of people, and reducing the number of precise shots to 1 with MM baseline would pretty much fix that entirely.
So they’re taking away our lethal shots? Idc what they do, this feels like a major nerf without lethal shots.
10/21/2018 12:54 PMPosted by Deadshot
So they’re taking away our lethal shots? Idc what they do, this feels like a major nerf without lethal shots.


It's definitely a nerf to the current meta, by which I mean they took the current meta into the alley out back, stabbed it in the neck, and left it in a dumpster. That being said, the current steady aim stacking is just kind of stupid, considering it makes it so capping focus doesn't matter, and you just outright never use RF, which is supposed to be a core rotational ability.

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