Sylvanas is more clever than you

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He ignored my irrefutable point.

/thread.
10/26/2018 03:00 AMPosted by Darethy
God this title made me cringe.

Yes, Sylvanas tactics in this case are sound and people oversimplify it's advantages, they are something she even reasons out, i'v pointed out how other nations do this. BUT IT'S COMPLETELY IMPRACTICAL BECAUSE SHE ESCALATED THE WAR INTO A SITUATION IT DIDN'T NEED TO BE IN TO BEGIN WITH.

The problem is Sylvanas made her use a TOTAL WAR tactic against a nation we are NOT IN TOTAL WAR AGAINST. Which I feel like is the problem with much of this expac. The Forsaken have been a war of total extinction with much of the Alliance(And in MoP and practically Cata, a chunk of the Horde as well.) and that mentality has been stretched over the entire Horde where it is not applicable.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
The Alliance has always been an existential threat to most races of the horde. WC3, the Darkspear trolls outright ask Thrall for help, because otherwise they feel Kul'tiras forces will kill them all. Undead, the Alliance made it clear to them early on that they were to be killed on sight, when the Forsaken Ambassador to the Alliance was killed without provocation or reason.

Blood Elves, Garithos tried to kill Kael'thas and his entire force. Later on the Alliance shows continued hostility by sending spies to the Blood Elf lands in a time of crisis. Tauren, Camp Taurajo shows the Alliance has no problems killing Tauren Civilians. Even the "gap" the Alliance left for Tauren Civilians to escape led right into a an area full of killer plants. Even though the Alliance knew of the danger of that area. Orcs have reason to believe the Alliance will kill or enslave them all over the actions of their ancestors.
10/26/2018 03:04 AMPosted by Baultenn
He ignored my irrefutable point.

/thread.
Uh, sorry, I just checked further back to see what you're talking about. Just saw your post. Anyway, I guess that could be taken as an intelligent course of action, assuming Saurfang makes it past the door alive.
10/26/2018 02:26 AMPosted by Rivendel
10/26/2018 02:24 AMPosted by Grandblade
... Arthas should've finished the job.
We've already been over this Grandblade, he'd statistically be more likely to kill you than me.
It's not a hypothetical, you boob. It's a way of saying he should have ended you.
10/26/2018 03:04 AMPosted by Baultenn
He ignored my irrefutable point.

/thread.


I mean, what Shaw's doing right now might backfire. He made his aid in Saurfangs escape too obvious.

If both sides are aware Saurfangs is being used they might come to some kind of compromise where originally there was none. He's overplaying his hand essentially, if he makes thing too blatant the Horde might gel itself back together.

10/26/2018 03:06 AMPosted by Rivendel
The Alliance has always been an existential threat to most races of the horde. WC3, the Darkspear trolls outright ask Thrall for help, because otherwise they feel Kul'tiras forces will kill them all. Undead, the Alliance made it clear to them early on that they were to be killed on sight, when the Forsaken Ambassador to the Alliance was killed without provocation or reason.

Blood Elves, Garithos tried to kill Kael'thas and his entire force. Later on the Alliance shows continued hostility by sending spies to the Blood Elf lands in a time of crisis. Tauren, Camp Taurajo shows the Alliance has no problems killing Tauren Civilians. Even the "gap" the Alliance left for Tauren Civilians to escape led right into a an area full of killer plants. Even though the Alliance knew of the danger of that area. Orcs have reason to believe the Alliance will kill or enslave them all over the actions of their ancestors.


Only the Forsaken have any real legit claim in that arena. Otherwise you're operating on Genn Greymane logic, those events happened so long ago, and the hostility was so isolated that you can't justify a genocidal war campaign on them. As leader of the Horde as a superpower, she needed to tone it down. Even in the Forsakens case, their most extreme acts have general been in the immediate area of Lordaeron, not their enemies homeland.
10/26/2018 03:08 AMPosted by Grandblade
10/26/2018 02:26 AMPosted by Rivendel
...We've already been over this Grandblade, he'd statistically be more likely to kill you than me.
It's not a hypothetical, you boob. It's a way of saying he should have ended you.
Good thing he couldn't have, since not all Elves were present in Quel'Thalas at the time. Infact many of the Elves who survived the invasion did so precisely because they weren't home at the time.
10/26/2018 03:04 AMPosted by Baultenn
He ignored my irrefutable point.

/thread.


I mean, what Shaw's doing right now might backfire. He made his aid in Saurfangs escape too obvious.

If both sides are aware Saurfangs is being used they might come to some kind of compromise where originally there was none. He's overplaying his hand essentially, if he makes thing too blatant the Horde might gel itself back together.

“Hey the Alliance is helping me complete my goals by freeing me, but they didn’t tell me so I’m going to side with Sylvanas now.”
10/26/2018 03:10 AMPosted by Rivendel
10/26/2018 03:08 AMPosted by Grandblade
... It's not a hypothetical, you boob. It's a way of saying he should have ended you.
Good thing he couldn't have, since not all Elves were present in Quel'Thalas at the time. Infact many of the Elves who survived the invasion did so precisely because they weren't home at the time.
Why are you turning this into a history lesson? You're fundamentally misunderstanding the statement I put forth. Given the utter brainlessness of this post, however, it's unsurprising.
...

I mean, what Shaw's doing right now might backfire. He made his aid in Saurfangs escape too obvious.

If both sides are aware Saurfangs is being used they might come to some kind of compromise where originally there was none. He's overplaying his hand essentially, if he makes thing too blatant the Horde might gel itself back together.


“Hey the Alliance is helping me complete my goals by freeing me, but they didn’t tell me so I’m going to side with Sylvanas now.”


'Side' with Sylvanas would be too far, but he's more likely to work with the elements of the Horde he disagrees with in order to break the Alliances face. Nobody is going to surrender their country to a foreign power, not without a level of cowardice that ideally Saurfang doesn't have unless they just want to wreck his character.
10/26/2018 03:11 AMPosted by Grandblade
10/26/2018 03:10 AMPosted by Rivendel
...Good thing he couldn't have, since not all Elves were present in Quel'Thalas at the time. Infact many of the Elves who survived the invasion did so precisely because they weren't home at the time.
Why are you turning this into a history lesson? You're fundamentally misunderstanding the statement I put forth. Given the utter brainlessness of this post, however, it's unsurprising.
You're statement "he should've finished the job" is a mute brainless statement, because it couldn't possibly be done. Its moronic to say things that cannot happen under any circumstance.
10/26/2018 03:14 AMPosted by Darethy
...

“Hey the Alliance is helping me complete my goals by freeing me, but they didn’t tell me so I’m going to side with Sylvanas now.”


'Side' with Sylvanas would be too far, but he's more likely to work with the elements of the Horde he disagrees with in order to break the Alliances face. Nobody is going to surrender their country to a foreign power, not without a level of cowardice that ideally Saurfang doesn't have unless they just want to wreck his character.


Hey if they have a mutually vested interest in stopping Sylvanas, I don’t see the issue. Saurfang isn’t being enslaved or anything by the Alliance. All the Alliance is doing here is saying “okay continue your quest”. As well, Saurfang HAS to know by now it was the Alliance who freed him. How else did he get past the lock in the sewer grate, he got a tip it was unlocked?
10/26/2018 03:14 AMPosted by Rivendel
10/26/2018 03:11 AMPosted by Grandblade
... Why are you turning this into a history lesson? You're fundamentally misunderstanding the statement I put forth. Given the utter brainlessness of this post, however, it's unsurprising.
You're statement "he should've finished the job" is a mute brainless statement, because it couldn't possibly be done. Its moronic to say things that cannot happen under any circumstance.
I'm not saying it as a viable possibility, I'm saying it in a facetious manner to illustrate that your posting is idiotic and would be better off nonexistent. You're confusing my actual lore desires with just another way of calling you a boob.

If Sylvanas is indeed more clever than me, then you are low... looooow on the totem pole.
10/26/2018 03:17 AMPosted by Grandblade
10/26/2018 03:14 AMPosted by Rivendel
...You're statement "he should've finished the job" is a mute brainless statement, because it couldn't possibly be done. Its moronic to say things that cannot happen under any circumstance.
I'm not saying it as a viable possibility, I'm saying it in a facetious manner to illustrate that your posting is idiotic and would be better off nonexistent. You're confusing my actual lore desires with just another way of calling you a boob.

If Sylvanas is indeed more clever than me, then you are low... looooow on the totem pole.
I've taken an IQ test, I know where my intelligence stands. Given that information, your insult has done zero damage. I knew from the beginning that your first petty insult was just that, a baseless insult as well. I was just lowering its relevance further by stating that the premise of the insult was an impossibility.
...

'Side' with Sylvanas would be too far, but he's more likely to work with the elements of the Horde he disagrees with in order to break the Alliances face. Nobody is going to surrender their country to a foreign power, not without a level of cowardice that ideally Saurfang doesn't have unless they just want to wreck his character.


Hey if they have a mutually vested interest in stopping Sylvanas, I don’t see the issue. Saurfang isn’t being enslaved or anything by the Alliance. All the Alliance is doing here is saying “okay continue your quest”. As well, Saurfang HAS to know by now it was the Alliance who freed him. How else did he get past the lock in the sewer grate, he got a tip it was unlocked?


Which if he was doing, he'd be consciously aware that he's being used as destabilizing force in war time in order to fit into the Alliance machinations of breaking Horde solidarity for their forces. And if Saurfang was actually doing that and not accounting for the Alliance manipulation in any way then....

Look, just give us an icepick.
He has to know the Alliance will take advantage of this. What, does he think we will stop fighting the Horde when he goes to confront Sylvanas?

Of course he doesn’t. He just would rather end this war with “honor” than have Sylvanas taint his faction any longer.
10/26/2018 03:20 AMPosted by Rivendel
<span class="truncated">...</span> I'm not saying it as a viable possibility, I'm saying it in a facetious manner to illustrate that your posting is idiotic and would be better off nonexistent. You're confusing my actual lore desires with just another way of calling you a boob.

If Sylvanas is indeed more clever than me, then you are low... looooow on the totem pole.
I've taken an IQ test, I know where my intelligence stands. Given that information, your insult has done zero damage. I knew from the beginning that your first petty insult was just that, a baseless insult as well. I was just lowering its relevance further by stating that the premise of the insult was an impossibility.
Holy sh!t, this might actually be the funniest post I've seen on these forums.

"I TOOK AN IQ TEST FROM COOLMATHGAMES.COM, I'M NOT STUPID!! I KNEW YOU WEREN'T SERIOUS, I WAS JUST BLUFFING!!"

Untip that fedora, boyo.
...I've taken an IQ test, I know where my intelligence stands. Given that information, your insult has done zero damage. I knew from the beginning that your first petty insult was just that, a baseless insult as well. I was just lowering its relevance further by stating that the premise of the insult was an impossibility.
Holy sh!t, this might actually be the funniest post I've seen on these forums.

"I TOOK AN IQ TEST FROM COOLMATHGAMES.COM, I'M NOT STUPID!! I KNEW YOU WEREN'T SERIOUS, I WAS JUST BLUFFING!!"

Untip that fedora, boyo.
10/26/2018 03:21 AMPosted by Baultenn
He has to know the Alliance will take advantage of this. What, does he think we will stop fighting the Horde when he goes to confront Sylvanas?

Of course he doesn’t. He just would rather end this war with “honor” than have Sylvanas taint his faction any longer.


That's the point, if Saurfangs character has not been COMPLETELY gutted then he should building his plans around fighting the Alliance after whatever he does with Sylvanas.

Which would result in Alliance deaths, considerable ones, in more then a few scenarios that could of been avoided by Shaw having a modicum of subtly.
10/26/2018 03:25 AMPosted by Darethy
10/26/2018 03:21 AMPosted by Baultenn
He has to know the Alliance will take advantage of this. What, does he think we will stop fighting the Horde when he goes to confront Sylvanas?

Of course he doesn’t. He just would rather end this war with “honor” than have Sylvanas taint his faction any longer.


That's the point, if Saurfangs character has not been COMPLETELY gutted then he should building his plans around fighting the Alliance after whatever he does with Sylvanas.

Which would result in Alliance deaths, considerable ones, in more then a few scenarios that could of been avoided by Shaw having a modicum of subtly.


Whatever havoc Saurfang would bring to the Alliance after he theoretically deposes of Sylvanas would be far less deadly to the Alliance than say, having Sylvanas still be in power.

It’s a win/win situation for the Alliance.
I feel like the only way to get OP to shush is if someone wrote a really good diss track against him.

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