Kaldorei Raise Your Hand!

Wyrmrest Accord
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The Alliance is oppressive, cloistered, rigid and stagnant - they say about the multicultural society where everyone's counsel is measured and weighed along with others, and three leaders declaring they will no longer support the High King's decision and do their own thing isn't met with an immediate execution.

...while trying to justify that Baine doesn't say anything because what will become of the Tauren if he speaks out.
Jaina has killed too many people and has to be stopped - says Rexxar, an obedient servant of a genocidal tyrant.
Honestly I can't take Rexxar seriously anymore with that excessively wiggly horn on his shoulder. I spin him around in the model viewer all the time and laugh.
10/30/2018 11:06 AMPosted by Moonedge
It took way too long for a night elf death knight to post on this thread.

I rolled Moonedge out of spite recently. And because I needed an Alliance death knight.
I racechanged my DK to a Death Knight for the same reason. I'll be damned if I'm gonna let this story stand.
10/30/2018 01:18 PMPosted by Serevèn
10/30/2018 12:35 PMPosted by Loranaris
It's weird and you have to do mental gymnastics to rationalize it, but at least you can spin your head enough to justify it, unlike a certain squad in Vol'dun.
Please. Justify genocide, death squads, internment camps, and converting your torture victims into willing participants in the continued slaughter of their people. Go on.

It's apparently much easier for you to fathom that than the Alliance putting down totems to spook allies of their enemies so this should be a short reply.


I'm just thinking that the mind twisting that goes into dying and being raised into undeath isn't too much of a stretch, not to mention the possibility that the val'kyr/Sylvanas is tightening their grip on those they raise instead of allowing free will.

This is the first time I've heard of the death camps and stuff, but I'm not really going to argue there because that's all pretty horrible stuff. My entire point is that it isn't unthinkable to have Forsaken night elves.
I have the name Waspnest reserved and ready for my night warrior.
10/30/2018 02:23 PMPosted by Anyaka
10/30/2018 02:17 PMPosted by Enekie
"Alliance bigotry" hasn't made sense as a motivation for the Horde since WC3. At no point have they ever expressed an interest in the Horde beyond keeping them from killing themselves and everyone else around them.

It makes even less sense when you consider the Horde is currently in the midst of its fourth racially-motivated genocidal war.


The Alliance is too rigid and strict... Says the literal dictatorship with all the power in the hands of the supreme leader about the loose coalition of independent member states (including the only democracy in the game) who pool military resources. Sometimes.


No, you don’t understand! The Alliance is too MEAN because they tell us that we have to stop doing bad things, and that’s intolerance!

So clearly we have to murder them down to the last child.
10/30/2018 03:16 PMPosted by Loranaris
My entire point is that it isn't unthinkable to have Forsaken night elves.
The entire point of their original writing was that they, while tainted, weren't unrelatable and weren't converted by that taint. They didn't wake to the world with their wills restored and immediately become Arthas' #1 fans and go back to murder for him. It made them mad. It made them inclined to indulge on darker impulses. But it was still in the realm of relatability. I would condemn their decision to shut off from the human world to develop the plague, knowing that they would be made to stop if the world at large knew. There was still cause and effect. Reasons for what they did. Undeath didn't make them grow pointed mustaches and make them want to end all life. It was a conclusion some came to out of bitterness and resignation. This has all been lost and now we're excusing people being murdered, brought back, and immediately killing their kin. This story parallels Arthas' in every way but the righteous indignation and single minded pursuit of vengeance the victim's rightfully felt when they came to. Instead, Arthas' victims now, again to quote nuBlizz here "WILLINGLY" serve.

This is bereft of everything that made the Forsaken good originally. The decision for the Kaldorei to murder their people comes from no bitterness. No misunderstanding. No resignation to pursue a dark revenge against their murderer by any means necessary at the expense of their ability to return to what they once were. Its all gone. The story is a hollow mockery of itself now.

If they want to push that there's mental coercion/mind control/domination at play, they're absolutely doing the opposite of what is necessary.
10/30/2018 04:04 PMPosted by Serevèn
10/30/2018 03:16 PMPosted by Loranaris
My entire point is that it isn't unthinkable to have Forsaken night elves.
The entire point of their original writing was that they, while tainted, weren't unrelatable and weren't converted by that taint. They didn't wake to the world with their wills restored and immediately become Arthas' #1 fans and go back to murder for him. It made them mad. It made them inclined to indulge on darker impulses. But it was still in the realm of relatability. I would condemn their decision to shut off from the human world to develop the plague, knowing that they would be made to stop if the world at large knew. There was still cause and effect. Reasons for what they did. Undeath didn't make them grow pointed mustaches and make them want to end all life. It was a conclusion some came to out of bitterness and resignation. This has all been lost and now we're excusing people being murdered, brought back, and immediately killing their kin. This story parallels Arthas' in every way but the righteous indignation and single minded pursuit of vengeance the victim's rightfully felt when they came to. Instead, Arthas' victims now, again to quote nuBlizz here "WILLINGLY" serve.

This is bereft of everything that made the Forsaken good originally. The decision for the Kaldorei to murder their people comes from no bitterness. No misunderstanding. No resignation to pursue a dark revenge against their murderer by any means necessary at the expense of their ability to return to what they once were. Its all gone. The story is a hollow mockery of itself now.

If they want to push that there's mental coercion/mind control/domination at play, they're absolutely doing the opposite of what is necessary.


I think we’re moving from “the story is bad” to “the story is offensively bad”
10/30/2018 04:13 PMPosted by Raseri
I think we’re moving from “the story is bad” to “the story is offensively bad”


Everybody make a note.
I hope there's some detail we're missing (and heaven knows playing telephone with the PTR isn't the clearest). And as stupid-excessive evil as death camps are, if we're doubling down on undead jerkery (and goblins I guess), then all right.

BUT AT LEAST THROW ME A LINE. GIVE ME SOMETHING. Are we actually supposed to think this is mind control? Because if so, okay. If it's not, though, can we get at least one dissenter who doesn't want to replenish forsaken forces and start fighting other night elves? Or a throwaway line, voiced or not, about the reasoning?

...Also, I really want a squad made up of night elf death knights, demon hunters and mages making trouble.

And a pony.

And some #&@*#in' perspective on how the rest of the Horde feels about it. Or if they even know.
I can't begin to care.
Well I tried to play devil's advocate here. I do completely agree that it really doesn't fit it with Forsaken lore, but I'm just saying right now BFA's story has a lot of elements where you just have to... roll with it, I guess. And that the only way to not blow a head gasket is to either headcanon the heck out of it or make the logic jumps I've been trying to do.
10/30/2018 04:51 PMPosted by Anyaka
I hope there's some detail we're missing


Has there ever been?
10/30/2018 04:51 PMPosted by Anyaka
Or a throwaway line, voiced or not, about the reasoning?
Sirra Moonwarden:
"We all have our reasons for accepting the Val'kyr's gift of undeath. Now is not the time to discuss them. A heavy blow has been dealt to Sylvanas today. There is no time to rest."
All said to a Horde soldier who was just murdering her own people and helped murder HER. There is nothing that excuses this but mind control. And Blizzard is making it clear its not mind control. There is nothing that excuses this garbage. It is just garbage.

Edit: Sorry that emphasis there is mine. That a night elf is waking up and immediately has concern for the one responsible for despair? (Resignation. Forsaking your goddess because you felt abandoned by her. Feeling you have no home with your own people in death. All still relatable to me. All fly in the face of that one step further Blizz has taken.) I used to like Sylvanas' story but her becoming the devs' clear darling has made me absolutely despise it.
If this were any other franchise I would assume this was setting up a schism within the undead. If I were writing this and had been focusing on the Forsaken raising enemies against their will with blithe confidence that they would be able to control them, that's where I would be going with it. There could be a great story development down the line where the Proudmoore boy and all those night elves suddenly turn on Sylvanas right at the moment when it could do her the most damage, perhaps in conjunction with Calia Menethil's new lightforged undead thingy. It could potentially be the next Wrathgate.

But this is Warcraft, and this is Blizzard, and it is at least as likely that it's all being played dismally straight and written by people who just plain don't get how stupid and terrible this story direction is.
They're literally never going to address it and will just pretend like it never happened.
About all I'm getting out of this story is justification for my NE Demon Hunter to actually have motivation beyond hitting loot pinatas.
So I was actually talking to Sylvanas about all this, annnnd you guys are going to feel really guilty about why she wants all the Night Elves dead...

Sooo you can't tell her I told you, but she told me because we're close like that. We were eating a pair of gnomes, you know for lunch meeting as you do, and I was talking about how glad I was the cockroach vendor survived, he's the sole breadwinner in his house hold, he's got kids....well they're pygmies that we killed and resurrected into undeath but I digress.

We're finishing off this Gnome family and Sylvanas is telling me about her vacation after the war with the Legion, she went to Un'goro, she's got a thing for raptors, don't ask me I don't know.

So after playing with the raptors, she had a day to do anything else she wanted before she hearthed out back to Orgrimmar. She got up super early, hiked from Un'goro to Silithus, it was part of some weird undead crossfit thing, I don't know.

Anyway she's gets to Silithus and no one's around, all this sand and no witnesses, or so she thinks. Sylvanas spends all morning building this beautiful sand castle and when she's done a pair of Night Elf dudebros pop out of the shadows and stomp all over her sand castle.

Now I know what you're thinking right, she's mad because they ruined her sand castle, no! No she's was only a little embarrassed but hey accidents happen. She's cool with it, she's picking her stuff up and being nice about it until she hears one of them say "Dude no, I'm not cracking open a cold one,"

I don't know if you guys noticed, but there are a couple of extra mascara streaks on her cheeks these days. She's not even into living dudes right? But just like how it was said, really hurt her feelings.

But yeah, feelings were hurt and days were ruined.

I think the lesson we can all take from this, is that words hurt and you never know who's feelings you might be hurting with them. You might think you're talking to some little undead girl enjoying a happy little vacation in Silithus and next week you find her having tea with your parent's entrails.

I think we all need take this lesson to heart and be a little bit more courteous to each other.
10/30/2018 09:54 AMPosted by Vanndrel
At this point, it's more morally ambiguous to join the Legion in New Vegas than to play as the Horde in BfA.


Ave. True to Caesar.

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