Kaldorei Raise Your Hand!

Wyrmrest Accord
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Things like this are why I stopped RPing. I have no interest in this game's story any longer.
I don't think you need to stop RPing just because you don't like the story. There's tons of stuff you can do that doesn't pertain to the War Campaign.
10/30/2018 01:57 PMPosted by Azhaar
That's just what Sylvanas said to people. She started the war because she wants to kill everyone and take their stuff,
Character in game where 98% of what you do is kill people and take their stuff wants to kill people and take their stuff... seems oddly consistent.
Why follow the story when you can just pay attention to your own rp plotlines and ignore the war campaign, we all know blizzard writing is (toilet flushing sound)

I play this game for funsies, I think if I put too much thought into the overarching storyline at this point I'd just be angry all the time
10/30/2018 11:06 AMPosted by Moonedge
I rolled Moonedge out of spite recently.
S A M E .
I'll be honest, I feel like Opherial is a good Night Elf name and I wouldn't mind 2% dodge and movement speed as a BDK but I'm too much of a Diplomacy sucker.
I like the contrarian novelty of being a femdorf DK too much to change, but it's tempted me.
FemDwarves for Everyone.
10/30/2018 08:16 AMPosted by Layam
BfA ends with Saurfang waking up in a sweat turning to his left to see the remains of his dinner, a half eaten ham steak and mash potatoes, he turns back into his bed grumbling “I need more fiber,” and thus we learn it was all a dream


I got to page 1, and stopped here. Saurfang doesn't eat pork. Checkmate.
11/01/2018 12:19 PMPosted by Jelakkzul
10/30/2018 08:16 AMPosted by Layam
BfA ends with Saurfang waking up in a sweat turning to his left to see the remains of his dinner, a half eaten ham steak and mash potatoes, he turns back into his bed grumbling “I need more fiber,” and thus we learn it was all a dream


I got to page 1, and stopped here. Saurfang doesn't eat pork. Checkmate.
Why do you think he had a nightmare about genocide
I'm usually very positive and optimistic about Blizzard's writing. Anyone who's seen me post here has probably noticed and been irritated by that.

But free-willed night elf Forsaken is a step too far. I can understand maybe like 2 sadistic lunatics and that one scared person who just doesn't want to die again would MAYBE join Sylvanas... but a large influx of Kaldorei... joining of their own free will?

It's utter BS.

This is the story of Sylvanas, but mental slavery taken out of it. Like Arthas, Sylvanas has led a genocidal invasion of elven lands, butchered its people, and destroyed its sacred site (I believe a World Tree, even if it's not THE world tree, is at least somewhat comparable to the Sunwell). If this was to make any sense at all, Sylvanas would lowkey start mind-controlling the Night Elves, in the same way that she was controlled by the Lich King.

I swear at this point, the only way this is redeemable in my eyes is if these Undead Kaldorei have a pact of some sort to gain the trust of, and murder, Sylvanas. Their final act of vengeance, as Sylvanas tried to take hers on Arthas.

For the first time since WoD's utter lack of story and content... I feel disappointed in Blizzard's writing. I mean I get that we've got yet to see it in live, but.... still.
10/30/2018 12:04 PMPosted by Serevèn
10/30/2018 12:02 PMPosted by Opherial
"Death camps - are they really that big a deal?"
Clearly the answer is a big no. Their own "victims" (I mean honestly people let's be real, can we even call them that?) condone them, in fact! I like to think of them as "Ways to make more fans of the Horde because they're just such rad fellas." camps.


I do feel the need to respond to this though. In part because the quoted statement was made in response to a thread that was talking about why genocide is normal IN THE WOW UNIVERSE and thus not associated with our modern-day earth morality. The OP of that thread never attempted to say that genocide was a good thing. If I recall correctly, it was pointing out the HUGE amount of genocides in the WoW universe and wondering why this one in particular was so upsetting.

But my other point is that, while the actions in those camps are obviously OOCly and LARGELY ICly abhorrent, this isn't new behavior for the Forsaken. Sadly it's pretty standard.
I think my beef with the death camps has less to do with the Forsaken and more to do with the utter lack of imagination that came from Blizzard.

This isn't a serious game.

This is epic schemes, massive battles and poop quests. It's funny jokes alongside big explosions. The tragedies are personal and dramatic. The sort of faceless horrors of war that Blizzard is trying to convey just don't work because it's not that kind of story and it never will be.

We've always known that Blizzard will hammer the players hard with "THIS IS BAD, THESE ARE THE BAD GUYS" lamentations, hence why they always kill a Tauren or a Night Elf when they want to establish a threat. But this is just...not dramatic, not heroic, not anything but gross.

And this isn't a gross game.
11/01/2018 01:10 PMPosted by Enekie
I think my beef with the death camps has less to do with the Forsaken and more to do with the utter lack of imagination that came from Blizzard.

This isn't a serious game.

This is epic schemes, massive battles and poop quests. It's funny jokes alongside big explosions. The tragedies are personal and dramatic. The sort of faceless horrors of war that Blizzard is trying to convey just don't work because it's not that kind of story and it never will be.

We've always known that Blizzard will hammer the players hard with "THIS IS BAD, THESE ARE THE BAD GUYS" lamentations, hence why they always kill a Tauren or a Night Elf when they want to establish a threat. But this is just...not dramatic, not heroic, not anything but gross.

And this isn't a gross game.


I'd argue that it's ALWAYS had a broad variety of themes, from very dark to very light. Way back in the Warcraft days it was more dark than light, really. The Scourge is a horrifying concept - the idea of your friends and family rising as mindless undead slaves and trying to kill you is... horrifying. I still get chills from the Kel'thuzad origin story released in Classic. It's not like this is new. The genocide of the Draenei, the Legion's corruption of the orcs, the rise and tyranny of the Forsaken... none of these are new concepts. WoW and Warcraft in general has always had some very blatantly dark themes.

If anything I find it vaguely annoying that the dark themes get consistently broken up because "Oh haha this is Indiana Jones" and "HAHA I MAKE DINOSAUR SMOL IN ZULDAZAR!". We seem to jump from deep, strong, emotional and dark plotlines to blatant silliness. Which is weird.

Edit: I admit though, I'd rather see this kind of gross stuff from the enemies we're united to fight. Not from a supposedly relatable faction.
11/01/2018 01:10 PMPosted by Enekie
I think my beef with the death camps has less to do with the Forsaken and more to do with the utter lack of imagination that came from Blizzard.

This isn't a serious game.

This is epic schemes, massive battles and poop quests. It's funny jokes alongside big explosions. The tragedies are personal and dramatic. The sort of faceless horrors of war that Blizzard is trying to convey just don't work because it's not that kind of story and it never will be.

We've always known that Blizzard will hammer the players hard with "THIS IS BAD, THESE ARE THE BAD GUYS" lamentations, hence why they always kill a Tauren or a Night Elf when they want to establish a threat. But this is just...not dramatic, not heroic, not anything but gross.

And this isn't a gross game.
The Warcraft franchise has always had dark themes in the background. The issue here is that they're floundering at telling war stories. Which is a big deal when you run a game called World of Warcraft.

This isn't even a good way to illustrate the faceless horrors of war if that was their goal.

I'm going to go way out on a limb and ask: Is it possible they're just so steeped in WWII stories/references that they've lost sight of how to depict war without making one side nakedly genocidal? I know wanting to end all or most life on Azeroth is standard for big bads but the last time there wasn't a traditional big bad it was Garrosh being written with clearly hitlerian undertones and now this.
I've stopped asking those questions since that Metzen interview. Really, the revelation that story beats are determined by game designers and writers are relegated to cleanup explains every single thing that has ever gone wrong with this game's story.
11/01/2018 01:10 PMPosted by Enekie
But this is just...not dramatic, not heroic, not anything but gross.

And this isn't a gross game.


100% agreed. Even at the edgiest point of WarCraft's history (WarCraft II), the game never did anything like this - and WarCraft III showed Orcs straight up sacrificing villagers to demons!

I'm out of time in December, and honestly I think I may stay that way. It's about the only way remaining I can really voice my displeasure with the game on the whole.

10/31/2018 03:44 PMPosted by Myressae
Why follow the story when you can just pay attention to your own rp plotlines and ignore the war campaign, we all know blizzard writing is (toilet flushing sound)

I play this game for funsies, I think if I put too much thought into the overarching storyline at this point I'd just be angry all the time


The problem here is that for a good chunk of us, the game's story - or the franchise's setting in general - is what drew us into the World to begin with. It's nigh on impossible for me to ignore something happening in the game in favor of an alternate "reality".

Vanndrel here was a Blood Elf until Cataclysm, when I couldn't support the Horde any longer. When my Human Hunter came around, I canonically killed him off as a clean break. When I unlocked Void Elves, I retconned that death (even cheekily reference it in my RP profile) and raced changed my humie back into the now Blueberry ex-Blood Elf.

Story's important to me. I was so disappointed with Cata's story that I didn't come back to WoW until the Siege of Ogrimmar. I never saw the Vale uncorrupted, that's how long I was away.

I get the feeling this break is going to be like that. At the end of the day, I play for the official story. And that official story is a steaming pile of garbage. I haven't been this legitimately upset since the official retcon of Lothar's assassination.

EDIT: Post count...nice.
Ugh. The fact this is true upsets me.

I hate the Legion.

For me, I'm just waiting for the "Death camps - are they really that big a deal?" thread.

THREADS*. I'm sure.

Also why wait? I'm sure that'll be a topic in this thread by page 4.

edited to add: I should have hit submit faster. lmao


I'm a wizard.
Just waiting on my faction change to go through and I'll be going Kaldorei.

I like playing the underdog.
11/01/2018 06:21 PMPosted by Azhaar
I've stopped asking those questions since that Metzen interview. Really, the revelation that story beats are determined by game designers and writers are relegated to cleanup explains every single thing that has ever gone wrong with this game's story.
You know, back when Teldrassil was happening it made sense that it was all the game team's fault. But now they seem to be struggling to do even small things right so I'm not as sure as I used to be that all of this is Ion's fault.

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