Kaldorei Raise Your Hand!

Wyrmrest Accord
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I know I've said unkind things about Ion (and I stand by them) but in seriousness I don't think pinning every little thing on him is reasonable.

I am not a game developer so I can't intelligently critique Blizzard's methods in that regard. I know when something's not entertaining me, and after years of playing video games I have a pretty good intuitive sense for how they work, but that doesn't mean I truly comprehend what's happening under the hood when I play a game. I am a writer, though, and when the writing is bad, I can usually tell exactly why and how.

And in my professional capacity I can assure you that everything wrong with the writing makes perfect sense now that we know it's not writers doing it. Everything right with it also makes sense. Lore is hidden in novels because the novels are actually internally coherent. Zone stories are better because writers got to write those from a very general outline rather than connecting the dots on story beats decreed by people who don't understand how narratives work.

Ion should have Christie Golden try to do his job for a week and see how that works out. Maybe then the devs will understand why it's wiser to let writers do the writing.
10/30/2018 12:26 AMPosted by Serevèn
So who's rerolling Horde


Nope.

I've played Elliistra through so much of Blizzard's bad ideas, and I am in a great Kaldorei community now. Blizzard does run some stupid ideas for storylines, but I'm waiting to judge 8.1 when it comes out.
11/02/2018 08:26 AMPosted by Elliistra
10/30/2018 12:26 AMPosted by Serevèn
So who's rerolling Horde


Nope.

I've played Elliistra through so much of Blizzard's bad ideas, and I am in a great Kaldorei community now. Blizzard does run some stupid ideas for storylines, but I'm waiting to judge 8.1 when it comes out.


I think the Kaldorei community is the strongest it's ever been.

Despite its current lore, I actually feel like we're all unified under a common cause. It's a feeling I never had playing Horde, where all the races had different motives for their actions.
I'm ether rolling a night elf or race change my velf into a night elf. I'm not sure yet.

The night elf story starting getting good.
10/30/2018 09:55 AMPosted by Serevèn
10/30/2018 09:33 AMPosted by Vanndrel
Sylvanas has internment camps set up in Darkshore for Night Elf "survivors" that are used for Target Practice and experiments. When the Alliance Warfront comes to liberate Darkshore, Nathanos orders the Horde player to kill all the inhabitants of the internment camps are use a Val'kyr to - and I quote - "Raise the Willing".
I cannot state emphatically enough how much this offends and repulses me. This isn't just bad writing anymore. Bad writing is Metzen having to constantly remind the team during Vanilla development that the Forsaken were not the same as the scourge because they kept writing quests like they were. Bad writing is in Cata, years later people still not getting that memo and writing Kirin Tor mages as joining up as soon as they die, and having to issue a blue post explaining how that memo was lost and those NPCs weren't canon.

This isn't bad writing anymore. This is legit someone working at Blizzard writing that the victims of atrocities, abuse, torture, freaking murder would willingly join their tormentor and participate in the abuse and murder of their families. Someone at Blizzard believes this is relatable. This is a thing I can not reconcile with. Someone was HIRED by Blizzard to write this garbage, and it was committed to a final product that they are selling to people. There is someone at Blizzard I actually hate.


Same. It's quite disturbing. I haven't been this unenthusiastic about a storyline since they killed Rell Nightwind in Pandaria and my rogue went horde.
11/02/2018 03:44 AMPosted by Azhaar
I know I've said unkind things about Ion (and I stand by them) but in seriousness I don't think pinning every little thing on him is reasonable.

I am not a game developer so I can't intelligently critique Blizzard's methods in that regard. I know when something's not entertaining me, and after years of playing video games I have a pretty good intuitive sense for how they work, but that doesn't mean I truly comprehend what's happening under the hood when I play a game. I am a writer, though, and when the writing is bad, I can usually tell exactly why and how.

And in my professional capacity I can assure you that everything wrong with the writing makes perfect sense now that we know it's not writers doing it. Everything right with it also makes sense. Lore is hidden in novels because the novels are actually internally coherent. Zone stories are better because writers got to write those from a very general outline rather than connecting the dots on story beats decreed by people who don't understand how narratives work.

Ion should have Christie Golden try to do his job for a week and see how that works out. Maybe then the devs will understand why it's wiser to let writers do the writing.


Yeah I get that Blizzard has the whole "gameplay > story" philosophy... And it does make sense. But really, would it be so hard to consult the writers about a story framework FIRST, and then focus on the gameplay in the most depth? Letting the devs decide the story independently doesn't seem wise... and you can prioritize your gameplay while still making intelligent decisions with regards to the writing.
10/30/2018 08:16 AMPosted by Layam
BfA ends with Saurfang waking up in a sweat turning to his left to see the remains of his dinner, a half eaten ham steak and mash potatoes, he turns back into his bed grumbling “I need more fiber,” and thus we learn it was all a dream

HAHAHAHAA ^^
I'd play a Nightelf Dark Ranger in a heart beat.
10/30/2018 08:01 AMPosted by Morrowveil
Guy who doesn't want to join Sylvanas: "Maybe I'll make my own Forsaken! With elbows!!!"

*a few quests later*

"Go kill that guy who refused to join us."


10/30/2018 09:21 AMPosted by Morrowveil
So far as Marshal Redpath is concerned: I think I interpreted that situation differently. When you're sent to kill him, he and his renegade group of undead are fighting Forsaken forces. If he "shot first" or whatever, it totally makes sense that you've got to take him out. Again, this is probably how Blizz intended it. But for some reason I assumed the Forsaken sought him out because they thought he was a threat.


Yeah, a big part of that is that Redpath is stated to not be right in the head. Rotten in the brain, but not mindless either. They didn't think anything of the rotbrain undead, those who share that half-mindless state, until he rallied them into a group not independent of the Forsaken, but opposed to the Forsaken.

10/30/2018 09:21 AMPosted by Morrowveil
But there's another interpretation there, too, that only just occurred to me. His little army was made up of brainless undead. You know, the ones you're supposed to kill. Maybe the Forsaken took a moral stance against that, since directing "mindless undead" was something they strongly associated with Arthas. Is... is this that "gray morality" I'm always hearing about?


That's probably true, but his army was rotbrained undead. Not mindless, but close. Different enough to matter until it was shown how easily they could be turned into enemies, then they were just treated like mindless.
Having played in Cata beta, the rotbrain detail is very much intentional. I played an earlier version where Redpath just ran off to rally an opposition force, but after lots of negative feedback they changed that and some other details.

I miss helping fellow Forsaken out of their graves, though. That was pretty cool.
10/30/2018 12:26 AMPosted by Serevèn
So who's rerolling Horde now that it turns out all it's ever taken to convince the Kaldorei that the Forsaken have it right is to kill us and use valks to find out if we were willing all along.

Haha I love this game's story so much.


Well I must admit if it felt bad to RP Night Elves before, it's a pretty cool time to RP them now. I actually really want to RP mine again after the 8.1 cinematic. Whewlad....
@Orayo
Ohhhhhhhhhhhh

@Laurensa
Oh oh ohhhhhhhhh

This really helps my understanding of the story a LOT so thank you for sharing this information, both of you.
There's been some - I hesitate to call them "improvements" - but changes made the scenario on the Horde side.

https://www.reddit.com/r/warcraftlore/comments/9uy0pv/darkshore_night_warrior_changes_part_2/

Most (5 out of 6) of the Night Elves you try to raise actively refuse and turn into angry wisps and attack you instead.

There's more, so mind the spoiler tag.
Every new tidbit of information leaked confirms that "wait and see" is a losing gambit.
Nope I'm not rerolling Horde. I left Horde RP and never want to go back and in my weird mind going Horde at this point would be giving Blizz a win for this narrative.

On that note it might be time to move over my last Horde Character to Alliance side. Plus I got an idea for a DK character in mind lol.
To me, Sylvanas IS Arthas now. She's doing exactly as he did. She is not redeemable in my eyes, no matter what she does, and if Blizzard somehow does manages to redeem her, I'm done.

I have become uninterested in the story. It's an absolute utter crapshow.
11/07/2018 11:36 PMPosted by Faelyndra
To me, Sylvanas IS Arthas now. She's doing exactly as he did. She is not redeemable in my eyes, no matter what she does, and if Blizzard somehow does manages to redeem her, I'm done.

I have become uninterested in the story. It's an absolute utter crapshow.
This is the hole they've written themselves into. I honestly don't see a way they can resolve this without having a lot of people saying they're done. Unless they do something really nebulous like that one leak that had: Sylvanas leaves for the Shadowlands in search of the Old God's source of immortality.
They'll write themselves out of it the same way they write themselves out of everything else: by pretending anywhere from 50-90% of the story didn't actually happen.

Remember in Cataclysm when everyone celebrated because Deathwing was dead and no one bothered fretting over the whole "Horde destroying the world" thing?

Or when Varian inexplicably let the Horde off with no punishment?

Or "Draenor is free?"

Legion, I guess, wrapped up all its plot threads, but it was mostly well-written. With faction wars, Blizzard just tends to ignore the sticky bits and cut to the ending because they're already bored.
I mean "Draenor is free" worked because not that many people cared about the characters and most were just happy to go home and forget the time-traveling alternate universe nonsense ever happened. I don't feel like they can get away with it this time.

Sylvanas holding aloft the black blade of the empire and shouting "Azeroth is free!"?

Surfang holding aloft his honor and shouting "Azeroth is free!" as Baine and Alliance leaders gather around to applaud him?
Sylvanas died on her way back to her home planet.

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