When you'll ask yourself, what'd killed WoW

Battle for Azeroth Items and Classes
The only thing that can kill WoW is Blizz itself, and they're certainly going for it this expansion.
11/05/2018 03:42 PMPosted by Lahgtah
Not class design in itself, but also content design's interaction with it and vice-versa. I don't like how much of an action game WoW has become, lacking all those little details and elements that make an RPG. There was a brief time we had something like that in legion with the artifacts, but even that was a hollow shell of what it was based on: the old pre-cata talent system.

This talent system, and the philosophy of classes before Wrath, is something I miss. I truly do hate this class design of where there are, realistically, only four classes: a healer, a tank, a melee DPS, and a ranged DPS, but different colors and slightly different toolkits between them. I also have grown to hate how content is designed around this, where the things a class could provide outside of these four paradigms aren't very valuable, at least not as much as they used to be.

All of these things lend themselves to the esports/competitive crowd who just want to raid, arena, or M+ at the highest level they can, but don't care about the rest of the game. The borrowed power system like artifacts, and now azerite, is solely for this sake. The diluting of class identity, the quick-paced content where each patch is just a new season where your slate is wiped clean, the mechanics within raids and dungeons are also for this sake.

In a way, the key to solving class imbalance is to, ironically, stop trying to make them all the same. Likewise, content design must reflect this. "Bring the player, not the class" sounded good when I first heard it, but after experiencing what comes from it, I don't think I want it anymore.

I think they could solve this issue if they adopted a design like the one from Destiny (of course, not being so hollow), but have sub specs that you can choose what will define your class. Bringing an example to wow, shadow priests had a lot of iterations through the years, you could choose a sub spec in Voidform, unlocking all its traits, or in Devouring Plague as well. Or as a Demo lock, you could sub spec in summoning an army of demons, or in becoming one itself (meta, miss you).

There wouldn't be the need to remove things each expansion, but rather, you could keep adding new iterations, and let players choose. And of course, you could let the class base spells standard. Also, there wouldn't be the need to keep adding levels, just put quest chains each expac to unlock the new features.

If you guys at Blizz want, you can do! You guys just need to be more transparent, and communicate with us, that you are aware of all our claims. The main issue that I have with the devs is that feeling of blindness towards some issues that are blatantly exposed by the community.
I'd have to agree. Literally the only thing that's preventing me from playing the game is simply class design. I'd love to be able to enjoy this expansion but I can't cause I'm too damn bored no matter what class or spec I pick up for the day. :(
Empty GCDs.

Empty GCDs everywhere.

Unless, of course, you're a Fury Warrior, lol. See, whoever designed Fury had the right idea -- you should not have a GCD available and nothing to push.

Yeah, okay, I don't want to be mashing buttons every 0.5 seconds, but yet I don't like sitting there for 4 seconds at a time with nothing to do because everything is on cooldown or I'm out of resources.

I was leveling my Fury Warrior a couple days ago and wow, so much fun. I'm not there grumbling about everything on cooldown, I always have SOMETHING to do (even if it's just Whirlwind) and it's fun.

Then I go to Feral Druid and it's Rake Mangle Mangle Tiger's Fury Mangle.... wait..... Mangle..... wait..... Bite..... wait....... Mangle..... wait....... Mangle

And if it's a rare mob, quest mob, or an elite or a dungeon boss, then my Tiger's Fury is on cooldown, I'm at 0 energy and I have to wait 3-4 seconds between attacks because energy regen takes so long, it's ridiculous.

Or, leveling a Ret Paladin between Lv115 and IL320... Blade of Justice.... Judgment, Crusader Strike, Verdict, Crusader Strike..... and..... wait.........wait........wait....... until you can finally do something because you only have 1-2HoPo and all of your HoPo abilities are on cooldown.
Class balance is definitely the biggest issue to me. Its only compounded by the focus wasted on generic azerite traits. Not enough things are baseline, everything is in talents.
I don't have much hope anymore. These devs are highly influenced by diablo (arpg) and apparently mobile rpgs. You can see that influence all over the game now.
its very simple. this is a game and when your game sucks !@# to play, people wont play it.

class design should be top priority every expansion. higher than lore and whatever else dumbass roleplayers want.
11/05/2018 12:05 AMPosted by Rhadamanph
... I'll come and whisper in your ears: "Class design, bithc"


Mechanically, Uldir is a more fun raid than EN was. M+ dungeons are more fun than the ones in Legion. PvP was also changed for the better to remove the templates (or at least make them less restrictive) so by the actual encounter design, the game has gotten better.

The biggest thing making all of those less fun in general are the new class designs. Azerite armor barely replaces set bonuses let alone Legion's Artifact weapon and Legendary system. The GCD changes slowed down the classes to a more boring pace, tanks were all nerfed to be dependent on healers and are a shell of their former glory.

TLDR: Classes have less options, less buttons to press, and play slower making them less fun than they were in previous expansions. The art team needs a raise, the encounter team also doing a good job, the class design team... should be replaced.
"We can't add abilities every xpac"

That's fine.... just don't take half of my MoP spellbook away. And make half of what's left talents/pvp talents.
I cursed his name daily, but man I wish we had Ghostcrawler back. He knew how to make a fun class even if they were horribly imbalanced.
Ion has pretty much killed the fun for me. Legion was a step in the right direction and then he butchered the game again. They day he is replaced I guarantee the game will do better.
Them spending more time deleting posts that tell them they are doing a bad job instead of actually DOING their job.... doesn't help.
11/05/2018 12:05 AMPosted by Rhadamanph
... I'll come and whisper in your ears: "Class design, bithc"

Careful about walking the line on forum tos while criticizing the staff.

I just got a three day HotS forum ban for saying "they expect you to be competitive but silence you if you tell someone to f* off for going afk"

tbh Ill probably get a WoW forum ban for this post.

Damage control in full affect as Blizzard crashes from poor management.
11/07/2018 06:04 PMPosted by Gumble
Them spending more time deleting posts that tell them they are doing a bad job instead of actually DOING their job.... doesn't help.

404'ing you + banning

All they care about is keeping their jobs.

They could care less about the established Blizzard fan base.
I would say activision killed wow.

But that doesn't explain why blizzard isn't putting in any effort towards class design.

I mean all of the attention is going towards mounts, pets, content, and anything else that isn't class design.

Maybe activision is the class design team? Just a theory
We have many of our best developers working on new mobile titles across all of our IPs.

Speaks for itself...
when activision came in to the picture
I was about to say yeah yeah every xpac people say the same thing "this will kill wow" blah blah blah but then i read your post about class design and im like oh yah he's right lol

won't kill it, but will hurt sub numbers for a time me thinks

but since I have every class at 110+ I just focus on the FOTM and alternate :P
I actually had fun leveling today.

Shocking, I know.

I was surprised by how much hidden depth my class had despite possessing only a handful of spells.

I learned about a few new combos and spell interactions as I went along.

It was a great experience all around.

...Then I realized I was playing GW2
Constant removal of MMO and RPG aspects until the game became a messy pile of nonsense.
11/05/2018 09:18 AMPosted by Valamandil
11/05/2018 07:46 AMPosted by Hareelarry
I bet Ion loves gaming and loves WoW but is under orders and on a leash from Corporate Headquarters. He probably has a mortgage and a family and big Medicare premiums and if he was to fix WoW his children would starve. I'm a dreamer yo.
Almost guaranteed all these bad decisions that are coming out are coming from management at Activision. Especially the decision to make a mobile Diablo game... Either way, I can't see any self respecting developer do what they've done to the classes in this game (all the backwards movement) without orders from management. Management, I might add, likely has never played the game and barely touches their computer.

I disagree. Higher-ups asked for a plan, and this is the plan Ion gave them. Upper management does not micromanage changes.

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