Feral azerite 'Iron Jaws' is useless

Druid
Went from 230 helm with Wild Fleshrending to 260 helm with Iron Jaws and even with the additional 121 agility my single target DPS droped by about 1200 points.

All it really does it make an occasional maim hit as hard as a crit FB. Essentially just a gives you a FB with stun every once in a while. Even if it proc'ed 100% of the time I think it'd still be a downgrade from Fleshrending.

The powers really need to be decoupled from the armor. Sucks to scrap a 30 level upgrade due to crappy azerite powers.
Mhmm.

This is what is meant by "RNG on top of RNG". Multiple systems of awarding gear that have a high chance of giving you crap you can't use, crap you already have, or crap that's way better but one of the 5 RNG systems involved in it mean it's somehow worse than what you had. 5. yes, for realz. Gem slots, titanforging, tertiary stats, azurite slots, and secondary stats. On top of already the RNG of just getting anything at all. Or with rings that don't have primary stats, a 50 ilvl upgrade can still be worse for the many specs with wildly variable stat weights.

It feels worse to get the shat than it would have been to just not have gotten anything at all.

I much miss the various tokening systems that allowed a few weeks of bad luck to be turned into a sure-fire acquiring of something actually useful. Or, not having systems that turn drops into shat.. Just have fixed gem slots. Just have fixed ilvls. Have %-based stat reforging like previously now that breakpoint targets are gone so that bad stat drops can still be upgrades. Have the equivalent of teir-tokens, the "azerite" tokens to be turned in for any slots' azerite gear from raid or dungeons.
11/09/2018 01:27 PMPosted by Thequixote
Went from 230 helm with Wild Fleshrending to 260 helm with Iron Jaws and even with the additional 121 agility my single target DPS droped by about 1200 points.

All it really does it make an occasional maim hit as hard as a crit FB. Essentially just a gives you a FB with stun every once in a while. Even if it proc'ed 100% of the time I think it'd still be a downgrade from Fleshrending.

The powers really need to be decoupled from the armor. Sucks to scrap a 30 level upgrade due to crappy azerite powers.


Hmmm while the azerite trait system definitely sucks, you shouldn't notice a 1200 dps loss between wfr and IJ. Maybe if you are using a MoC talent build for some reason you might and that would simply be due to the shear amount of shreds you spam with that playstyle. If running the actual best BT build IJ is much closer, though probably still behind. Definitely not by 1200 though.

WFR only adds about 600 dps when using the optimal build. IJ adds around 170. So youd be losing 430 dps just off of your main trait alone. Then you have to add in the fact the IJ piece gives you 121 agi which equates to around 200 dps (depending on your stat weight number). That means the IJ piece should be only doing 230 dps less than your other piece if played optimally in single target. Sp if you are losing 1200 I'd make sure you aren't accidentally hitting a 2nd target or make sure you are running the correct build as I'm sure if you ran BT instead of MoC youd see a dps increase regardless once you got the hang of it and adequately used a BT stack on every IJ maim. You also have to test thing out for over 3min to get a real baseline since RNG plays a factor in IJ. It also depends on what 2ndary traits the pieces have. For example, overwhelming power is worth more than a lot of primary traits due to how scale with haste.

Obviously, this doesnt make the azerite trait system feel any better. It's honestly one of the worst systems i think they've ever tried to implement. It had a lot of potential to add really cool things, but instead 90% of the traits are boring numerical things instead of things that add real flavor. It also currently super sucks for those of us that dont raid and chose m+ as our main content. I've now gone 7 weeks in a row without getting a single azerite piece from my weekly chest. I had all 340 pieces prior to the emissary change and even then they seem to come up rarely compared to an azerite reward for completion. Here's hoping 8.1 fixes that with the introduction of azerite vendors.

That is just one of the many gear issues with the current state of BFA. For example, I currently have 11 rings at 380 or higher sitting in my bank that are not upgrades due to poor stats. I have another 10 random pieces that are 370 or higher that have the same issue, but that's mostly a problem with the current scaling of feral while the ring issue is a flawed system as a whole.
Yes, Moment of Clarity. Was blood talons for a long time but the switch to MoC turned out to be one of the biggest non gear boosts to my dps I've had. Booth on single target with all it's shreds and on 3 to 4 targets while trying to keep a rip and rake up on all targets.

Seems counter intuitive but energy seems much more plentiful with MoC and the rotation is much easier to manage without having to throw in the regrowth with it's cool down to get that bonus.

Haven't put the time in to see how the gear change would effect 3 and 4 target encounters on the test dummies, but in my experience the biggest factor in that is how much other DPS the group is bringing to the table. With a bad group I can pull 11-12k on 4 targets. A really good group that can burn them down quickly can knock me down to 4-5k. Which IMHO is a real problem peculiar to the way feral works.
11/09/2018 11:19 PMPosted by Thequixote
Yes, Moment of Clarity. Was blood talons for a long time but the switch to MoC turned out to be one of the biggest non gear boosts to my dps I've had. Booth on single target with all it's shreds and on 3 to 4 targets while trying to keep a rip and rake up on all targets.

Seems counter intuitive but energy seems much more plentiful with MoC and the rotation is much easier to manage without having to throw in the regrowth with it's cool down to get that bonus.

Haven't put the time in to see how the gear change would effect 3 and 4 target encounters on the test dummies, but in my experience the biggest factor in that is how much other DPS the group is bringing to the table. With a bad group I can pull 11-12k on 4 targets. A really good group that can burn them down quickly can knock me down to 4-5k. Which IMHO is a real problem peculiar to the way feral works.


Yeah once you get used to BT it's by far the best option in all scenarios. People just have a harder time using it correctly. Feral isnt a spam buttons spec which is what moc attempts at turning it into and you're changing consistency for rng procs. Pooling energy is a feral fundamental that feels counter intuitive with MoC since you can go from energy starvation to energy capped randomly.

I sustain about 18-20k on 4 targets in the 10,11,12 keys I've been doing. More if I use cds. Of course that's with my groups DH sustaining 26k or so but that's a difference of our tuning.
WS is worth over 30ilvls lool, maybe 40+ ilvls to see a DPS increase ST replacing WS... lets not even talk about AOE.
11/09/2018 01:27 PMPosted by Thequixote
Went from 230 helm with Wild Fleshrending to 260 helm with Iron Jaws and even with the additional 121 agility my single target DPS droped by about 1200 points.

All it really does it make an occasional maim hit as hard as a crit FB. Essentially just a gives you a FB with stun every once in a while. Even if it proc'ed 100% of the time I think it'd still be a downgrade from Fleshrending.

The powers really need to be decoupled from the armor. Sucks to scrap a 30 level upgrade due to crappy azerite powers.
you can tell them all u want they dont care
11/10/2018 05:13 AMPosted by Pidooma

Yeah once you get used to BT it's by far the best option in all scenarios. People just have a harder time using it correctly. Feral isnt a spam buttons spec which is what moc attempts at turning it into and you're changing consistency for rng procs. Pooling energy is a feral fundamental that feels counter intuitive with MoC since you can go from energy starvation to energy capped randomly.

I sustain about 18-20k on 4 targets in the 10,11,12 keys I've been doing. More if I use cds. Of course that's with my groups DH sustaining 26k or so but that's a difference of our tuning.


Looks like you're working more around Tiger's Fury with Shredding Fury, Blood rites and Predator. I'll have to give that a shot. For large trash pulls predator is probably the way to go, bosses, not so sure about that.

Haven't seen a piece of gear with Blood rites since the i270's, and I was very disappointed to lose it. The sudden lack of energy was very noticeable and in some sense my current build is compensating for that. It's energy that gets converted to damage, pooling or no pooling if it takes longer to generate a pool your DPS will be going down.

The general problem I have with blood talons is it just takes to long to get going on trash, they're all dead before it can be used and matter. Melee boss fights can be very hectic and it's hard to notice if your clear casting dropped while running around and suddenly your popping out of cat to cast a regrowth on yourself. Even on the training dummy I just haven't gotten it to out DPS MoC. It's kind of a wash if I berserk, but otherwise the loss of MoC without blood rites leaves me sitting around just auto attacking way too much.
My azerite pieces are not ideal. I haven't gotten a piece from my chest in 7 weeks now and I dont raid so I'm left with what I get. Ideally I'd get a gushing laceration ready for 8.1, plus I overall like the random combo points it gets. Wildflesh rending is a solid choice if you can get ahold of it.

The idea with pooling is that you always have energy to keep dots up. Your up times should be 95% or higher. Spamming shreds at the risk of rake or thrash falling off due to lack of energy is a huge loss of dps. This has always been one of the hardest concepts for people to grasp as they feel like every global needs to be used pressing a button or they wont do as much damage when in reality shred damage is actual garbage.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum