Stormheim was justified

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11/12/2018 12:21 PMPosted by Tannaril
You do know that genocide of the Orcs was so acceptable to the Alliance that they had a vote on it (with Genn voting for it).

Stromgarde and Gilneas were the only kingdoms that lobbied for mass execution. The rest of the kingdoms within the Alliance of Lordaeron chose incarceration.

Therefore, genocide was actually not acceptable to the majority of the Alliance at the time even after the atrocities waged by Gul'dan's Horde.
11/12/2018 12:48 PMPosted by Darethy
You are clearly the !@#$%^- yes, if Genn's attack had prevented the recovery of the Aegis the world would of certainly died. It's not logic born out of some illogical reverance for Odyns murder cult or the so-called 'Queen of Angels.' Genn didn't do this to save the world, he didn't know, he had little trouble fighting anyone including those same angels to get at Sylvanas.


I see... Well guys, you heard it here first. Slavery is the answer. If you do not support slavery, then you are an a-hole who wants the world to die. Do your part against the Legion and own a slave....
11/12/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Darethy
How am I suppose to treat them aside from just...deflated exasperation?
Well, wasn't it Tong the Fixer who said "you are not strong despite one another; you are strong BECAUSE of one another?"
11/12/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Darethy
Aki goes on endlessly about how I justify genocide and slavery while I make pains to express that I think nothing that Sylvanas did at Stormheim and Darnassus was right.


You can say that until you are blue in the face, but as long as you keep making justifications for those things, then you are a liar.
11/12/2018 01:00 PMPosted by Grandblade
Well, wasn't it Tong the Fixer who said "you are not strong despite one another; you are strong BECAUSE of one another?"

For the record, I held Tong down while Wrathion slapped him repeatedly.
11/12/2018 12:58 PMPosted by Akiyass

I see... Well guys, you heard it here first. Slavery is the answer. If you do not support slavery, then you are an a-hole who wants the world to die. Do your part against the Legion and own a slave....


Also remember that if someone wrongs you in one fashion or another, it's okay to starve their entire country knowing they have no means to resupply, it's not technically ethnic cleansing because you didn't stab them personally. Also, attacking people based on a void of information is completely okay so long as you find out one of them was doing something nefarious after.

It's important to paint people with a wide brush, otherwise how are you supposed to maintain the moral highground while slaughtering them indiscriminately?
11/12/2018 01:01 PMPosted by Éamon
11/12/2018 01:00 PMPosted by Grandblade
Well, wasn't it Tong the Fixer who said "you are not strong despite one another; you are strong BECAUSE of one another?"

For the record, I held Tong down while Wrathion slapped him repeatedly.
Most people did. I sure did. Specifically Darethy did.
11/12/2018 01:02 PMPosted by Darethy
Also remember that if someone wrongs you in one fashion or another, it's okay to starve their entire country knowing they have no means to resupply, it's not technically ethnic cleansing because you didn't stab them personally. Also, attacking people based on a void of information is completely okay so long as you find out one of them was doing something nefarious after.


Pro tip, don't attack people you are dependant on for survival.
https://media.giphy.com/media/xUA7aTaAgUK1qcv1WE/source.gif
11/12/2018 01:04 PMPosted by Akiyass
11/12/2018 01:02 PMPosted by Darethy
Also remember that if someone wrongs you in one fashion or another, it's okay to starve their entire country knowing they have no means to resupply, it's not technically ethnic cleansing because you didn't stab them personally. Also, attacking people based on a void of information is completely okay so long as you find out one of them was doing something nefarious after.


Pro tip, don't attack people you are dependant on for survival.


Pro tip: People attack other people constantly, if you use isolated incidents to justify starving an entire group of people you're basically just a race supremacist whose too afraid to do the killing personally and wanted a convenient excuse.

11/12/2018 01:03 PMPosted by Grandblade
11/12/2018 01:01 PMPosted by Éamon
...
For the record, I held Tong down while Wrathion slapped him repeatedly.
Most people did. I sure did. Specifically Darethy did.


All would be forgiven in this expansion if somehow, some way, this faction conflict wound up killing Tong, it would be poetic.
Pro tip: People attack other people constantly, if you use isolated incidents to justify starving an entire group of people you're basically just a race supremacist whose too afraid to do the killing personally and wanted a convenient excuse.


"Continue to feed us while our people kill your people."

seems legit.
11/12/2018 01:07 PMPosted by Darethy
All would be forgiven in this expansion if somehow, some way, this faction conflict wound up killing Tong, it would be poetic.

It still amazes me how a 30 second scene turned a faceless NPC with no dialogue up to that point into the personification of everything wrong with the faction conflict.
I still don't understand how anyone thinks the quest in Azsuna is canon, especially considering both sides are able to complete it.
11/12/2018 01:09 PMPosted by Akiyass
Pro tip: People attack other people constantly, if you use isolated incidents to justify starving an entire group of people you're basically just a race supremacist whose too afraid to do the killing personally and wanted a convenient excuse.


"Continue to feed us while our people kill your people."

seems legit.


I mean pretty much anything seems horrible if you reduce it to a soundbite. I could just condense your argument into 'If I don't want to feed a baby, it's not my fault if a baby starves.' but it's more complex then that, you're wrong specifically because people as a whole are not their ethnic groups and it's not right to engineer the death of civilians by starvation because they do not, as whole, represent their country.

Unlike the military, you do not sign up to fight and die for your country and it's decisions. That baby doesn't know about the death of Kaldorei in Ashenvale, it has no control over whats happening there or any way to stop it. What's the baby going to do? suddenly age itself twenty years and grow strong enough to challenge the Warchief to Mak'gora?

It is a necessary evil, sanctions are a cruel means of harming other nations that we nevertheless accept because we feel it is more justifiable then the alternatives. But if you accept the necessary evil of sanctions then you cannot tell me the significantly more black and white issue of Stormheim wasn't worth immediate and violent retaliation especially under it's circumstance just because of after the fact justifications and assumed guilt over every Forsaken present.

That's a level of cognitive disconnect that's just silly.
11/12/2018 01:17 PMPosted by Darethy
'If I don't want to feed a baby, it's not my fault if a baby starves.'


Yes, I am responsible for the misfortune that comes as a consequence for attacking a nation from which your country is dependent on for survival. In fact, because I have things, I am responsible for all misfortune everywhere. Everyone with food should give it up in an effort to end world hunger. Because people go hungry, everyone with food is directly responsible for starvation.

You are allowed to slaughter people indiscriminately, you are allowed to enslave entire races. But I am an a-hole because I do not think you have a right to what I own. Because I do not think my enemy has a right to what I own.

Get out of here with your neo-marxist BS.
11/12/2018 01:12 PMPosted by Éamon
It still amazes me how a 30 second scene turned a faceless NPC with no dialogue up to that point into the personification of everything wrong with the faction conflict.
Before we had "if you kill your enemies they win," Tong gave us "we need war to survive." Just friggin' throw your sons facefirst under the chariot wheels, war is a good thing!
11/12/2018 01:12 PMPosted by Éamon
11/12/2018 01:07 PMPosted by Darethy
All would be forgiven in this expansion if somehow, some way, this faction conflict wound up killing Tong, it would be poetic.

It still amazes me how a 30 second scene turned a faceless NPC with no dialogue up to that point into the personification of everything wrong with the faction conflict.


I'm sorry but I'm not getting how this Tong guy is drawing so much ire from that one statement

Edit: I just read the above, now I get it. I was just looking at too large a picture, like how the H&A work together to fight big bads so often, instead of how they keep killing each other

Also I quoted instead of editing lmao whoops
11/12/2018 01:29 PMPosted by Fritaya
I'm sorry but I'm not getting how this Tong guy is drawing so much ire from that one statement
Y'know, I feel like a discussion on this merits a thread of its own.
11/12/2018 01:26 PMPosted by Akiyass
11/12/2018 01:17 PMPosted by Darethy
'If I don't want to feed a baby, it's not my fault if a baby starves.'


Yes, I am responsible for the misfortune that comes as a consequence for attacking a nation from which your country is dependent on for survival. In fact, because I have things, I am responsible for all misfortune everywhere. Everyone with food should give it up in an effort to end world hunger. Because people go hungry, everyone with food is directly responsible for starvation.

You are allowed to slaughter people indiscriminately, you are allowed to enslave entire races. But I am an a-hole because I do not think you have a right to what I own. Because I do not think my enemy has a right to what I own.

Get out of here with your neo-marxist BS.


It's marxism to not want a child to starve when you have means, directly within your grasp to feed them because some other group of people who happened to be part of the same nation attacked you in an isolated incident? and by extension people who do want you to take responsibility for that want individual countries to feed the entire world because clearly if you have the direct means to feed one nation you can feed all of them?

You're a real treat Aki, you have to twist and turn in all sorts of mental gymnastics to even sound remotely sane. If someone opposes your viewpoint they are guilty of marxism, genocide, and slavery because if they are not guilty of those things then there's the potential they might not be the baddies.

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