Stormheim was justified

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11/14/2018 07:20 AMPosted by Droité
Genn already had anger issues before he became a Worgen, but the Worgen element made it so much worse. Its called a Worgen Blood-Rage and it is one of the side-effects of becoming one. Beyond that, you don't think Sylvie jeopardized things? Making a deal with a vile, vindictive, clearly effected by the Curse of Flesh Helya and assaulting and attempting to enslave another Titan Keeper who Odyn (the guy who had the Aegis of Aggrimar) relies on? !@#$, do you understand how absolutely dangerous Sylvanas would be to ALL OF LIFE if she managed to get the ability to create infinite Val'kyr from the dead? Assuming we managed to even survive the Legion without potentially the aid of Odyn or a Pillar of Creation.

His reasons were garbage, but his results where worth it. Sylvanas cannot be trusted with that kind of power, especially when she goes off spouting nonsense about "The Birth of a New Age" while dealing with Helya.
Oh I agree with you about Syl. My point was that Genn preemptively throwing himself at her was a bad move. Doing that made a lot of unnecessary casualties on both sides instead of him being patient and waiting for the right time to get involved. He could have just informed the PC alone to help him stop Sylvannas in order to minimize the damage. It doesn't seem like a smart play. He's a King and should be making better choices as expected of him. I also don't want to use the Blood rage as a cop out to justify those bad choices. Not all Worgen go "awooo bow wow woof grrrr" at the drop of a hat. His anger is attributed to him long before he became a Worgen. It's a Genn flaw, not a Worgen flaw.

Besides, wasn't the whole Blood rage thing mostly cured when the Kaldorei made them drink that hippie water? I can't remember the starting quests for Worgen much.
11/12/2018 08:37 AMPosted by Hahahahahaha


Calling Sylv evil at this point is a bit silly, since Blizz is going absurdly out of their way to do it too. When new evil like Teldrassil didn't turn Horde players against her, they started retconning everything they could to be her fault.


Blizzard underestimates the cult of personality surrounding Sylvannas and the length to which her edgelord fanbase will go to accomplish the feats of mental gymnastics necessary to conflate her cartoonish supervillainy with pRaGmAtIsM.

They'll keep moving the goal posts because they want Horde players to hate her. That's part of the story Blizzard wants to tell and half or the Horde aren't playing along.
11/14/2018 07:28 AMPosted by Calixto
Besides, wasn't the whole Blood rage thing mostly cured when the Kaldorei made them drink that hippie water? I can't remember the starting quests for Worgen much.


No, it was suppressed, but during the quest where you bring Anduin his father's note, both Tess Greymane and Lorna Crowley mention that they both struggle with the rage inside them (its in all Worgen); and it just happens to be far, far worse for Genn ... because he was already had anger problems prior to becoming a Worgen.
11/14/2018 07:36 AMPosted by Droité
11/14/2018 07:28 AMPosted by Calixto
Besides, wasn't the whole Blood rage thing mostly cured when the Kaldorei made them drink that hippie water? I can't remember the starting quests for Worgen much.


No, it was suppressed, but during the quest where you bring Anduin his father's note, both Tess Greymane and Lorna Crowley mention that they both struggle with the rage inside them (its in all Worgen); and it just happens to be far, far worse for Genn ... because he was already had anger problems prior to becoming a Worgen.


I don't think Tess and Lorna are Worgen, or am I misreading what you said here?
11/12/2018 07:46 AMPosted by Dalfurane
One one hand you have the Alliance fresh from the aftermath of the Broken Shore thinking they were betrayed and find plans about Sylvanas doing something sinister.

On the other you have the Horde who can't be bothered to communicate about what happened and play the victim card despite their warchief trying to enslave a potential ally for selfish reasons.

The Horde deserve Stormheim ten times over for being a lazy bunch!


Did it take you a while to come up with that?

Alliance could of talked, and from the book. The horde did tell what happened and it even reached Anduin.

And lazy bunch???? Blame blizzard for not writing a story for the horde in legion.
What is this starvation and sanctions thing Darethy and Aki were talking about?
11/14/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Yrithe
I don't think Tess and Lorna are Worgen, or am I misreading what you said here?
I think she means their fathers because both of their fathers are Worgen.
11/12/2018 11:15 AMPosted by Tannaril

Pretty typical. The Alliance assumes that they have right to attack without bothering to establish it is true or not.


Careful. That's what Batman does, when Batman is stopping random street criminals.

The Alliance doesn't get to be batman.
11/14/2018 07:55 AMPosted by Nekkar
11/12/2018 07:46 AMPosted by Dalfurane
One one hand you have the Alliance fresh from the aftermath of the Broken Shore thinking they were betrayed and find plans about Sylvanas doing something sinister.

On the other you have the Horde who can't be bothered to communicate about what happened and play the victim card despite their warchief trying to enslave a potential ally for selfish reasons.

The Horde deserve Stormheim ten times over for being a lazy bunch!


Did it take you a while to come up with that?

Alliance could of talked, and from the book. The horde did tell what happened and it even reached Anduin.

And lazy bunch???? Blame blizzard for not writing a story for the horde in legion.


Cool it reached after the expansion got over.

So much for communication.
11/14/2018 07:43 AMPosted by Yrithe
11/14/2018 07:36 AMPosted by Droité
...

No, it was suppressed, but during the quest where you bring Anduin his father's note, both Tess Greymane and Lorna Crowley mention that they both struggle with the rage inside them (its in all Worgen); and it just happens to be far, far worse for Genn ... because he was already had anger problems prior to becoming a Worgen.


I don't think Tess and Lorna are Worgen, or am I misreading what you said here?


Hmm ... maybe you're right. I guess I just assumed after so long that both of them were Worgen. With Lorna being part of the Gilneas liberation front (and fighting Forsaken) and Tess is the heir to Gilneas.
It was very justified.

The Alliance and Horde were already at war when the Legion struck.

There was no ceasefire or truce of any kind called and agreed on between the Horde and Alliance. And since Gilneas was never reclaimed and no reperations of any kind were recieved after the Seige of Lordaeron then it's super justified for GIlneas to strike at Sylvanas.
11/14/2018 08:01 AMPosted by Eldrethana
What is this starvation and sanctions thing Darethy and Aki were talking about?


I can only guess they mean the lead up to the Shattering. Up to that point the orcs had blazed through what little resources existed in Durotar in the wars in Outland and Northrend and had taken to relying on trade with the elves to survive in terms of food. Thrall made sure that it was trade, not war, that would get the Horde their resources.

Then the Wrathgate happened and the nelves were enraged at the Horde. They cut off all trade, leading to mass starvation and suffering in Orgrimmar. This led to resentment of Thrall for being political and led to anger towards the nelves. Both of these things were then further stoked by Garrosh in the lead up to war.

Garrosh started his first campaign against the Alliance by promising he would lay claim to Ashenvale and build a new capital for the orcs there. This was thwarted by Tyrande, Genn, and Varian, and they went back to a cold war until Theramore.

11/14/2018 09:43 AMPosted by Kalorea
There was no ceasefire or truce of any kind called and agreed on between the Horde and Alliance. And since Gilneas was never reclaimed and no reperations of any kind were recieved after the Seige of Lordaeron then it's super justified for GIlneas to strike at Sylvanas.


The end of MoP was their ceasefire. Ashran was a one off skirmish that nobody even acknowledges the existence of at Blizz. The Horde and Alliance even tried to remain united against the Legion until after the Broken Shore.
11/14/2018 09:43 AMPosted by Kalorea
It was very justified.

The Alliance and Horde were already at war when the Legion struck.

There was no ceasefire or truce of any kind called and agreed on between the Horde and Alliance. And since Gilneas was never reclaimed and no reperations of any kind were recieved after the Seige of Lordaeron then it's super justified for GIlneas to strike at Sylvanas.


The idea that they were already at war is, ironically, part of the basis for the attack on Dark Shore. The rest is just citing Horde grievances for Alliance ones.
The end of MoP was their ceasefire. Ashran was a one off skirmish that nobody even acknowledges the existence of at Blizz. The Horde and Alliance even tried to remain united against the Legion until after the Broken Shore.


You can't say handwave away Ashran and say the Alliance broke the peace first.
11/14/2018 10:21 AMPosted by Kalorea
The end of MoP was their ceasefire. Ashran was a one off skirmish that nobody even acknowledges the existence of at Blizz. The Horde and Alliance even tried to remain united against the Legion until after the Broken Shore.


You can't say handwave away Ashran and say the Alliance broke the peace first.


I said... any of that?

I said Blizz handwaved Ashran, and likely because it was so disliked and they just needed an excuse for PvP content, but I never said it should be completely disregarded. The factions were officially at peace. They were actively working together despite still high tensions after SoO.

The way - I - have seen it the attack in Stormheim was just as much a skirmish as Ashenvale in Cata was, as Ashran was, even though it consisted of two faction leaders going after one another. It was not the beginning of the war. The war officially started with the War of Thorns and it was instigated by Sylvanas.
11/12/2018 12:30 PMPosted by Jerolan
11/12/2018 12:21 PMPosted by Tannaril
You do know that genocide of the Orcs was so acceptable to the Alliance that they had a vote on it (with Genn voting for it).
You mean after the orcs had come from nowhere and razed Stormwind? Yeah, why would they ever consider that an acceptable solution I wonder.


Like how Sylvanas is reacting to humans not accepting that she and her people even have a right to exist. Greivances on both side go back a long way and trying to spin yours does change the fact that the Alliance has been OK with genocide, and on a level much greater than a leader suddenly ordering it out of nowhere.
11/12/2018 12:29 PMPosted by Darethy
because the alternative is facing the reality that your isolationist Elves acted with a global hegemony to kill innocent people for the sake of revenge.
I'm sorry, I'm totally missing something here. When did this ever happen? When did the Night elves go out of their way to kill innocents for the sake of revenge? I'm actually curious.
11/14/2018 09:15 AMPosted by Dalfurane
11/14/2018 07:55 AMPosted by Nekkar
...

Did it take you a while to come up with that?

Alliance could of talked, and from the book. The horde did tell what happened and it even reached Anduin.

And lazy bunch???? Blame blizzard for not writing a story for the horde in legion.


Cool it reached after the expansion got over.

So much for communication.


No it was in legion and it Baine who told Anduin. Why doesn’t alliance bother to communicate they knew Vol’jin died(his human hunter friend was there)? Why would the horde go out of their way to explain them self’s when alliance attacked their warchief.
11/14/2018 10:35 AMPosted by Pyrogar
11/12/2018 12:29 PMPosted by Darethy
because the alternative is facing the reality that your isolationist Elves acted with a global hegemony to kill innocent people for the sake of revenge.
I'm sorry, I'm totally missing something here. When did this ever happen? When did the Night elves go out of their way to kill innocents for the sake of revenge? I'm actually curious.


To clarify, i'm referring to the Kaldorei who acted with Genns attempt to sate revenge on a military target who yes, had soldiers, but was largely fixated on retrieving the Aegis.

Though on a much smaller scale, Night Elves did participate in the execution of Forsaken POW's during the counter invasion of Gilneas in Pyrewood village. By and large I have no special malice for the Night Elves because they have only ever been the accessories to murder, not actual murderers.

Which in itself is contrived because we don't even know WHY the Night Elves joined the Alliance to begin with.
11/14/2018 10:55 AMPosted by Darethy
Which in itself is contrived because we don't even know WHY the Night Elves joined the Alliance to begin with.

I ask myself this every time I wake up in the morning.

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