Step up, you salty underachievers!

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Oops, that was a bit over-the-top.

But seriously - are WoW players nowadays only interested in faceroll gaming?

I see people moaning about the difficulty of BC Time Walking dungeons.
I see people moaning about this weeks M+ affixes.

If you want a game you can play while checking your Facebook then keep on complaining about the levels of difficulty, because Blizzard is just as likely to hear you all and make the game even more dumbed down than it is now.

There needs to be increased levels of challenge in the game to make it worth playing. So what if TW dungeons are hard - does no one test themselves against things like this to see if they can beat the game? Is it nothing but "give me gear via the simplest possible route"?

Personally, I'd like to see more challenging play options. More Mage Tower-type challenges, more complex, complicated Island Invasion type scenarios. People don't have to do them if they don't want to, but they would be there for those who like to walk the hard yard.
To me, Just another Tuseday
Timewalking dungeons are repeats. No one wants to see them drag out with trash with large health pools because its boring.

They may be new for you, I dont know.

Timewalking isnt cutting edge content where you go to prove your awesomeness. (Thats the gym)

But wevs.
WoW players are indeed interested in facerolling everything.

Have you ever seen a mythic raider unequip their gear in order to do heroic dungeons or other low level content at the intended difficulty? No? There's your answer.
11/13/2018 08:59 PMPosted by Jelybeantoes
WoW players are indeed interested in facerolling everything.

Have you ever seen a mythic raider unequip their gear in order to do heroic dungeons or other low level content at the intended difficulty? No? There's your answer.


28763 posts?

Holy....
Speaking only for myself, But i play other games for any form of challenge.
I kind of think, that the game is not designed in such a way i want to put much into it.
I have wonder, If the design is just training a lot of players in that.
Most of the game is extreme grind, Its time consuming, without the need for thought or attention.
For a lot of players, its get on why you watch youtube or even read(which is what i do) And when that is broken up the game itself is not offering that challenge creatively for the player.

Otherwise, it can also be that blizzard is only offering that challenge in very specific circumstances.
Raids, and M+
Raids for me are cool once of, but i cannot commit to anything regular so that is out of the question.
And M+ is a no go for me, I hate it, So great for the players who like that. But nothing at all for me.
11/13/2018 09:05 PMPosted by Sharaeline
Speaking only for myself, But i play other games for any form of challenge.
I kind of think, that the game is not designed in such a way i want to put much into it.
I have wonder, If the design is just training a lot of players in that.
Most of the game is extreme grind, Its time consuming, without the need for thought or attention.
For a lot of players, its get on why you watch youtube or even read(which is what i do) And when that is broken up the game itself is not offering that challenge creatively for the player.

Otherwise, it can also be that blizzard is only offering that challenge in very specific circumstances.
Raids, and M+
Raids for me are cool once of, but i cannot commit to anything regular so that is out of the question.
And M+ is a no go for me, I hate it, So great for the players who like that. But nothing at all for me.


On point.
Same same
I don't want the game to be faceroll but at the same time i don't like seeing the game go backwards in the name of boosting our played time numbers.

Things like making TW dungeons a time consuming slog to the point people mostly stop participating, nerfing leveling speed and BOA's to make alts more painful and time consuming, trying to remove flight, taking away guild perks like faster ghost speed and ghost flight.

It all feels like my enjoyment is experiencing death by 1000 cuts.

(Inb4 someone suggests i want BiS gear mailed to me lol)
Why not have a mix of both challenging and more relaxing gameplay? Sometimes it's just fun to hang out and stomp things with your friends.

Mythic+ and raiding should be challenging, rewarding content.

Timewalking, which consists of old dungeons many people have already done to death for years, probably shouldn't. 'Challenge' should not equal 'tedium'.
GD here is basically always with people complaining, trolling, salty, so on and so forth so nothing new. Not a good place to gauge... anything.
11/13/2018 09:05 PMPosted by Shekzeer
11/13/2018 08:59 PMPosted by Jelybeantoes
WoW players are indeed interested in facerolling everything.

Have you ever seen a mythic raider unequip their gear in order to do heroic dungeons or other low level content at the intended difficulty? No? There's your answer.

28763 posts?

Holy....

Check out Korojin.
11/13/2018 09:19 PMPosted by Jelybeantoes
11/13/2018 09:05 PMPosted by Shekzeer
...
28763 posts?

Holy....

Check out Korojin.

Koro is the literal god of forum post count.
Generally i would say yes. The path of least resistance is human nature.

But this why we have various difficulty settings in games. But if one puts a game on a high difficulty the rewards better be worth the effort.

The timewalking gear is what on par with basic 120 bfa dungeons? Which means they should have the same level of difficulty.

Simply difficulty and reward have to balance out or the activity is not worth doing.
I really cannot comprehend the obsession that the modern MMO playerbase has with content that you can afk or pseudo-afk through. Why even bother playing a game at that point? I'm not saying everything needs to be a naked SL1 Dark Souls run, but if it's so easy that you may as well not even be there, why not just play cookie clicker or something?
What is the base ilevel of timewalking gear atm? This should determine how difficult said dungeons are.
...

But seriously - are WoW players nowadays only interested in faceroll gaming?
...

Yes. Next question.

Seriously though it is the truth of the matter, and to be honest I don't completely blame the players for it. The design of the game has shifted over the past 14 years to something that is more convenient, more accessible, and over all less challenging for players. This breeds an expectation that "I can do this amount of effort for X reward", and it creates a new standard.
As soon as something challenges that standard people start to question it. "Why can't I do Y while playing as I normally do when I'm perfectly fine doing X"

TW dungeons are Heroic content, albeit scaled, yet their difficulty does not relate to our current Heroic dungeons. This forces a shift in expectation.
Players in general are no longer taught how to switch play styles to overcome obstacles. Even difficult dungeon content (M+) today doesn't teach this as a the timer greatly incourages big pull+dps down strategies.
11/13/2018 09:25 PMPosted by Awby
I really cannot comprehend the obsession that the modern MMO playerbase has with content that you can afk or pseudo-afk through. Why even bother playing a game at that point? I'm not saying everything needs to be a naked SL1 Dark Souls run, but if it's so easy that you may as well not even be there, why not just play cookie clicker or something?


I think its less about people wanting to afk through everything and more of a feeling that we're always being nibbled away at, nerf this, cut back that, time gate this, remove that.

Its a war of attrition, me being unhappy with Blizzard changing things for the worst doesn't equal me wanting everything on a silver platter, i just hate it when the game feels like its getting worse and worse as we go forward. They're forever doubling down on fails and ignoring our feedback.
11/13/2018 09:05 PMPosted by Sharaeline
Speaking only for myself, But i play other games for any form of challenge.
I kind of think, that the game is not designed in such a way i want to put much into it.
I have wonder, If the design is just training a lot of players in that.
Most of the game is extreme grind, Its time consuming, without the need for thought or attention.
For a lot of players, its get on why you watch youtube or even read(which is what i do) And when that is broken up the game itself is not offering that challenge creatively for the player.

Otherwise, it can also be that blizzard is only offering that challenge in very specific circumstances.
Raids, and M+
Raids for me are cool once of, but i cannot commit to anything regular so that is out of the question.
And M+ is a no go for me, I hate it, So great for the players who like that. But nothing at all for me.

The shame is that WoW used to provide those challenges but the player base revolted and what resulted with easy faceroll content.
You used to have to use CC in dungeons and LoS. That stuff just isn't a thing anymore.
11/13/2018 09:25 PMPosted by Awby
I really cannot comprehend the obsession that the modern MMO playerbase has with content that you can afk or pseudo-afk through. Why even bother playing a game at that point? I'm not saying everything needs to be a naked SL1 Dark Souls run, but if it's so easy that you may as well not even be there, why not just play cookie clicker or something?

It has to do with the nature of entertainment. If you are playing the game for some other reason than entertainment, that's you. It's not some universal truth that looks into the souls of people you think are playing the game wrong and need to be forced to do things you want to force them to do because it gives you some odd tingle.
11/13/2018 08:58 PMPosted by Shekzeer
Timewalking dungeons are repeats. No one wants to see them drag out with trash with large health pools because its boring.

They may be new for you, I dont know.

Timewalking isnt cutting edge content where you go to prove your awesomeness. (Thats the gym)

But wevs.


The gym? Lol what are you one of those people who grunt loudly after benching 135

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