Rouge pvp

Classic Discussion
What's the hardest class for a rouge to kill and how do routes counter that class to kill it?
Example: engineer frozen trap back to the hunter himself
Rouge usually kills it with men in general. For some reason men find it very sexually attractive. There's probably some science behind it, but I'm not sure.
Anything with plate I would imagine.
Rouge pvp must be very red indeed.
11/14/2018 08:03 AMPosted by Ragknar
Rouge pvp must be very red indeed.
Not only red, but also French. Very provocative indeed.
Warriors are the hardest for rogues, you have to bleed kite.
11/14/2018 08:53 AMPosted by Veskr
Warriors are the hardest for rogues, you have to bleed kite.


No, it was definitely a decent+ hunter or warlock.

Hunters were terrible just because of the damn flares, you couldn't get close enough to engage, and if you did they'd wing clip and run off and repeat.
hardest to kill is probably pally, but they might have trouble catching a rogue that wants to get away
Prot warrior in T3 was 50/50, everything else was easy 1v1.
I had the better win ratio against the rest.
https://www.warcraftmovies.com/movieview.php?id=6140
Ret and Warriors. Ret because they could reset the fight (like Rogues can), Warriors because the only real defensive Rogues have feed into Warrior damage. The nice thing about Rogues though is that they can choose not to fight - whereas only Feral have that option.

I was going to make a lipstick joke but the desire wore off.
Rouge is overpowered.

#hadtobesaid
The only 2 classes that would give real trouble, and as they got quite geared become almost impossible.
Is a geared reck pally, and orc hunter
You're not beating a good druid, period. A druid who knows what they're doing is going to destroy you. Basically you open, they live because they're druids (druid pvp trinkets even broke stuns so it was especially easy to be fine in the opener), they faerie fire you and you can no longer ever reset because no cloak of shadows. They dot you and heal themselves and its real easy to outlast a rogue at that point. I would talk about the counter but I can't really think of any. Run? Stay stealthed? You just lose. Blind and bandage doesn't even work because a good druid is going to keep Abolish Poison on themselves to cleanse your blind 1 second into its duration.

If you're not undead you're probably going to lose to a Soullink warlock too because they beat pretty much everybody in 1v1 situations. If you're not undead you'll have to do some really cheesy stuff with sapping the warlock and then spamming a ton of stuff on the pet with the Serenity mace equipped to dispell the soullink for your opener. You're the closest thing to a counter to SL warlocks and even still it's pretty iffy.

As everyone gets more geared rogues start to get more and more unfavored match ups. I would never call them bad, but World of Roguecraft has skewed a lot of peoples' perceptions, for a lot of classes rogues are hardly unbeatable.
As a moonkin rogues were just fodder for me. I had to really screw it up to lose that fight.
As a undead shadow priest i also didnt have much trouble with rogues.
You're not beating a decent druid, period. A druid who knows what they're doing is going to destroy you. Basically you open, they live because they're druids (druid pvp trinkets even broke stuns so it was especially easy to be fine in the opener), they faerie fire you and you can no longer ever reset because no cloak of shadows. They dot you and heal themselves and its real easy to outlast a rogue at that point. I would talk about the counter but I can't really think of any. Run? Stay stealthed? You just lose.

If you're not undead you're probably going to lose to a Soullink warlock too because they beat pretty much everybody in 1v1 situations. If you're not undead you'll have to do some really cheesy stuff with sapping the warlock and then spamming a ton of stuff on the pet with the Serenity mace equipped to dispell the soullink for your opener.

As everyone gets more geared rogues start to get more and more unfavored match ups. I would never call them bad, but World of Roguecraft has skewed a lot of peoples' perceptions, for a lot of classes rogues are hardly unbeatable.


This is almost all completely inaccurate. Rogues accumulate gear and always have the potential to kill ANY class regardless of armor type. I main a paladin and our biggest advantage is simply that a rogue cannot trinket stuns. So as a rogue you will either have free action potions handy or risk the 1 shot. Rogue can easily beat paladins and warriors if they are precise with the CC. Warriors only present a slightly higher difficulty due to overpower and berserkers rage which breaks gouge. Druid is also an easy kill unless they are a brilliant PvP.

Here are the strats. Against warrior open stun watch the trinket restun with low combo points. Warrior is likely in d stance unless they love being dead. Gouge restealth and reopen. Rinse repeat until dead, toss a blind if you need to bandage and do not use dots unless you're confident in a quick kill. The warrior will try 4 things to counter you. 1. Disarm (smartest thing) this is a good time to gouge as well or blind if desperate. 2. Overpower (always gouge if they swap to battle stance) 3. Berserk stance to be immune to gouge (pop evasion wait for the battle stance swap) 4. Fear (trinket or if UD laugh at them)

Against a paladin the opener is the same. They have the same exact goal, to catch you in a stun for the delete win or to reset. A paladin can reset all day but a rogue can reset better. Don't stand in consecrate, let them chase you. They will early trinket the first stun or panic bubble early. Always reset when they do. If you do not want to be stun deleted by a reck bomb then quite simply dont let them move, and if they bubble vanish. If they unstealth you it could be tricky but you can sprint away and they cannot catch you.

Druids only have one hope, start in bear form. If you catch them out of a shift or in cat form you will likely kill them without a single druid spell cast or attack on you. The diminishing returns on restunning after the first stun is trinketed is not a big deal, you have other resets and gouge is your best friend. Never fear any druid out of bear form. In bear form you want to use an early evasion and reset after a burst. Vanish wont help much against a druid but if done quick enough can be used to disjoint a cast that isn't instant. Ideally you want to avoid being stunned and trapped in this scenario, you do mroe than enough damage if you are in equal gear so just force them to be defensive and blind bandage as needed then rinse repeat. If you reduce their cast time with poison and also use instant poison it should be a good duel.

You should really have much more trouble with casters that you can't get the jump on. If you ahve imp sprint things get a lot easier though. For warlocks just be sure to kill pet while they are sapped then go ahead and stomp them.
11/14/2018 01:59 PMPosted by Tunnelboy
You're not beating a decent druid, period. A druid who knows what they're doing is going to destroy you. Basically you open, they live because they're druids (druid pvp trinkets even broke stuns so it was especially easy to be fine in the opener), they faerie fire you and you can no longer ever reset because no cloak of shadows. They dot you and heal themselves and its real easy to outlast a rogue at that point. I would talk about the counter but I can't really think of any. Run? Stay stealthed? You just lose.

If you're not undead you're probably going to lose to a Soullink warlock too because they beat pretty much everybody in 1v1 situations. If you're not undead you'll have to do some really cheesy stuff with sapping the warlock and then spamming a ton of stuff on the pet with the Serenity mace equipped to dispell the soullink for your opener.

As everyone gets more geared rogues start to get more and more unfavored match ups. I would never call them bad, but World of Roguecraft has skewed a lot of peoples' perceptions, for a lot of classes rogues are hardly unbeatable.


This is almost all completely inaccurate. Rogues accumulate gear and always have the potential to kill ANY class regardless of armor type. I main a paladin and our biggest advantage is simply that a rogue cannot trinket stuns. So as a rogue you will either have free action potions handy or risk the 1 shot. Rogue can easily beat paladins and warriors if they are precise with the CC. Warriors only present a slightly higher difficulty due to overpower and berserkers rage which breaks gouge. Druid is also an easy kill unless they are a brilliant PvP.

Here are the strats. Against warrior open stun watch the trinket restun with low combo points. Warrior is likely in d stance unless they love being dead. Gouge restealth and reopen. Rinse repeat until dead, toss a blind if you need to bandage and do not use dots unless you're confident in a quick kill. The warrior will try 4 things to counter you. 1. Disarm (smartest thing) this is a good time to gouge as well or blind if desperate. 2. Overpower (always gouge if they swap to battle stance) 3. Berserk stance to be immune to gouge (pop evasion wait for the battle stance swap) 4. Fear (trinket or if UD laugh at them)

Against a paladin the opener is the same. They have the same exact goal, to catch you in a stun for the delete win or to reset. A paladin can reset all day but a rogue can reset better. Don't stand in consecrate, let them chase you. They will early trinket the first stun or panic bubble early. Always reset when they do. If you do not want to be stun deleted by a reck bomb then quite simply dont let them move, and if they bubble vanish. If they unstealth you it could be tricky but you can sprint away and they cannot catch you.

Druids only have one hope, start in bear form. If you catch them out of a shift or in cat form you will likely kill them without a single druid spell cast or attack on you. The diminishing returns on restunning after the first stun is trinketed is not a big deal, you have other resets and gouge is your best friend. Never fear any druid out of bear form. In bear form you want to use an early evasion and reset after a burst. Vanish wont help much against a druid but if done quick enough can be used to disjoint a cast that isn't instant. Ideally you want to avoid being stunned and trapped in this scenario, you do mroe than enough damage if you are in equal gear so just force them to be defensive and blind bandage as needed then rinse repeat. If you reduce their cast time with poison and also use instant poison it should be a good duel.

You should really have much more trouble with casters that you can't get the jump on. If you ahve imp sprint things get a lot easier though. For warlocks just be sure to kill pet while they are sapped then go ahead and stomp them.


You're not killing a druid in a single cheapshot even if you're following it up with a coldblood Evisc instead of a kidney. Even out of bear they're going to survive the cheapshot and trinket the kidney and live. Or trinket the cheapshot and survive the kidney and live. Either way. Any pvp druid is going to have Nature's Swiftness and recover before demolishing you with dots and bear form. Nature Swifness is like a 75% instant heal, and then after that they're totally fine. This is not even remotely a hard match up for druid.

As for soul link warlocks, that build lets you pop a CD for a 0.5 second demon summoning cast. Spending the time and resources to actually full-out kill the demon is a waste of your effort. The main concern is the dispellable soul link that's actually on the demon, spending more time to fully kill it is superfluous and it's not really something I'd recommend vs soul link. It'll be right back immediately. If you don't have the Serenity mace then that's kind of your only option, but it's not the ideal one. This is a match up the rogue has to play extremely well, it's not a "stomp" in any sense of the word if you don't have WotF. This is the sole reason why if I roll a warlock it's going to be an orc one, so that I don't have to deal with WotF, and I have a 25% to resist stuns. Rogues are the closest thing to a counter to it and even then you're favored in most cases.

I'm speaking from druid and warlock experience, not rogue experience. I don't know what rogue vs paladin is like or anything, I'm not going to contest any of that.
In OG vanilla dueling rules (Best of 5, full cds between matches, no engi bombs, no pots, food/bandage/water all allowed, and double stealth /roll for opener then alternate openers)

You should lose to any AQ40+ geared:
-Frost or elemental Mage
-Arms Warrior who isn't a muppet
-Ret (reckoning or holy subspecs both)
-Hunter
-Druid
-Warlock with a Soulink build specifically designed around killing rogues... Most won't be built like that and it's just a very tough fight for both parties.

You'll have an exceedingly tough time against:
-SM/Ruin Lock who crits off of succubus seduce with ZHC or ToEP
-NF/Conflag Lock who knows how to seduce lock you.
-Shadow priest who blackout procs more than once
-A geared Elemental Shaman (which where super rare, but super strong... tough matchup for both parties)
-Enhance Shaman who gets very lucky on WF procs (2h) or starts fight with 1h/shield
-3Min mage who lands their 3min burst without you vanish immuning the burst and waiting out arcane power in stealth
Paladins are extremely difficult to kill just by the pure nature that they are almost designed with killing rogues in mind.

Hunters that know how to play their class flat out hard counter rogues, however most hunters are really bad.

Feral build druids are also a hard counter if the druid has an IQ above 85. The problem most feral builds get them selves into are those who stay endlessly in cat form ignoring all their other class form abilities thinking for some reason they are also a rogue and should be able to win just by staying in Cat form. This does not work out. I use to watch my little sister play her feral and work rogues by abusing them in bear form and denying their vanish with faerie fire. Druids are extremely effective, but only in the right hands like a hunter.

Soul link build warlocks can be challenging, so can a decent mage
Soul Link Warlocks, top tier Warriors and Paladins. Other Rogues.

Never had trouble with anything else if I had all cooldowns and played correctly.

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