What reason do they have to stay?

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What reason do the night Elves have to stay in the Alliance after 8.1? I am asking this seriously.

Let's look at the events that just occurred.

1. Your people are genocided, an extremely large portion of your people, children and civilians, the next generation, has just been burned alive.

2. The Allies you have, the ones the genocide was committed to hit, refuse you aide and want you to wait to try to save your surviving people who are currently rounded up in literal death camps. They out right refuse you aide.

3. The head of state of one of your allies decides to unilaterally free the orc responsible for the events leading up to the genocide of your people. I repeat; Anduin decides to free one of the higher ups responsible for all the horrors that have happened to your people over the past few weeks, and he does so without consulting you, or thinking of you, at all.

That's a lot to handle. Considering the Night Evles are gaining literally nothing from the Alliance(no aide and no consideration what so ever), with Anduin out right refusing her aide. And not only that but out right betraying the Night Elves by releasing a war criminal without their consent or consultation. With all of that in mind; how can the Night Elves view Anduin and the Alliance as actual allies right now?

Convince me, because I'm not seeing how they stay in the Alliance after this without severe repercussions to people like Anduin and even then I dont know why they would stay.
I hate clickbait titles that make you open the thread to find out who "they" is.
1. Vastly weakened, the Night Elves are in their greatest need of allies. No one is going to protect them if they stand alone and the powers they once had are gone forever.

2. Anduin sent them aid far better than any army he sent them the Champion. and as it turns out the Champion was a far greater asset than anything else he had availale to send.

3. The Alliance is LOSING this war. That's a plain fact. if the Horde's greatest general makes himself available as a weapon to turn the tide, you bloody well take it. Ask Maiev why she freed those Demon Hunters awhile back.
the same reason why internal conflict never goes anywhere:horde threat.
both the kaldorei and the alliance need each other.
as cliche as this may sound, united we stand, divided we fall :')

as stated in 8.1 the alliance is winning in all fronts, and the alliance is the biggest allies they could hope for.
Once kultiras gain naval superiority, they could start sending more help to kalimdor.

but true, what should strike directly in their loyalty is the betrayal of anduin when he released saurfang without asking anybody else.
From a Doyalist perspective, because that is how blizzard will write it. From a Watsonian perspective, I could argue that letting Saurfang go disrupts Horde unity and potentially leads to internal divisions and ouster of Sylvanas. Think Lenin being released into Imperial Russia during WWI by imperial Germany

Furthermore, leading a war effort does not make Saurfang a war criminal. Like, no place in reality nor in Warcraft has ever really held the commanding general accountable for actions not his own by his leadership, especially when he publicly opposed them (tbf, normally when that happened they were relieved of command and or killed out right in reality).

If anything from a pure utilitarian standpoint Tyrande should be happy, because internal horde unrest would lead to a weakening of the Darkshore front, meaning reclamation should be easier.

Lastly, the Alliance Champion and the Worgen both come to the Aid of the NEs, while the main strike force gears to cripple the Golden Fleet and severly hinder the ability of the Horde to move goods via sea.
11/14/2018 04:51 PMPosted by Galarion
That's a lot to handle. Considering the Night Evles are gaining literally nothing from the Alliance(no aide and no consideration what so ever), with Anduin out right refusing her aide


What the hell are you talking about? They do get aid and consideration, the player character and Worgen go with Tyrande. Anduin is rebuked because this is not the Horde, Anduin does not have dictatorial powers over all the other members on all decisions. Stormwind is packed with Night Elf refugees. The Alliance also provided plenty of aid to them when Garrosh invaded Ashenvale.

Let's ask the opposite question, where the hell would the Night Elves go without the Alliance at this moment? They gonna fight off the entire Horde who just genocided them by themselves? Or maybe they're going to just surrender to the people putting them in death camps in Darkshore? Where are the refugees in Stormwind gonna go?

This "Night Elves gain nothing from the Alliance" stuff is getting very very stupid.
11/14/2018 04:58 PMPosted by Drahliana
1. Vastly weakened, the Night Elves are in their greatest need of allies. No one is going to protect them if they stand alone and the powers they once had are gone forever.

2. Anduin sent them aid far better than any army he sent them the Champion. and as it turns out the Champion was a far greater asset than anything else he had availale to send.

3. The Alliance is LOSING this war. That's a plain fact. if the Horde's greatest general makes himself available as a weapon to turn the tide, you bloody well take it. Ask Maiev why she freed those Demon Hunters awhile back.


1. you're right, they do need allies. but the allies they have aren't helping. If they're not helping you in your time of need are they really allies?

2. Anduin sent them the Champion as an afterthought, because Tyrande had already told him to shove it and that they'd do it themselves,He had already out right refused her aide and then said crap, well I gotta send 1 person to try to save some face. But the damage was already done, the Night Elves "allies" refused to live up to their side of the alliance.

3. If the enemies greatest general makes himself useful you probably should use him. But it might be a good idea to run it by the people he slaughtered the children of before doing it. Just to give them a heads up and be a good ally, since you are supposed to be allies. And if you Ally refuses, well since they're your ally, and his actions did lead to children being burned alive, well you should probably back your ally, not the baby murderer. Seems like something a true ally would do.

But thats not what happens. Again, why are the Night Elves still in this alliance? They seem to give plenty to it, but get nothing from it.

And dont come at me with Genn, Genn isn't doing it as an Alliance rep, he's outright refusing orders to help them, because he is a true ally and acting as such, unlike Anduin and Stormwind.
Apart from the Alliance fighting the Horde and promising to get you your lands back, with Saurfang presenting a possible way to undermine Sylvanas and help to end the war with less casualties for all of the Alliance races?

If the war wraps up and the Night Elves get their lands back, there's the benefits of the mutual defense pact. If the Horde and Alliance do not conclude the conflict with proper peace and only a ceasefire, and the Night Elves go off on their own, they're stuck on Kalimdor next to the bulk of the Horde, a world superpower. The primary factor in Darnassus' continued existence in throwing distance from Orgrimmar was the fact that the Alliance would've retaliated in kind and wiped out Undercity. And if the Horde wanted to lay claim to the resources in Ashenvale and beyond, that would be a logical step.

I doubt the Alliance under Anduin would really just stand by and do nothing while such a thing went on, but a severance in communications like seceding from the Alliance would accomplish would delay their response time. Some actors in the Alliance would object to lending aid to a race that spat on the Alliance's bonds. And by the time the Alliance might actually get a force in motion, it could possibly be too late, and then maybe the Horde have the opportunity to reinforce Undercity against that counterattack (if it comes at all).

The reason the War of Thorns kicked off was that the loss of naval powers inhibited both factions abilities to deploy troops to the opposite continents. This combined with the feint is what gave the Horde a chance to launch a preemptive campaign that allowed them to rout the Night Elven forces in a lightning campaign before the Alliance could field reinforcements or deploy a counterattack against Undercity. Making that state the default for the Night Elves sounds like a bad idea, because in a full on, undivided campaign, I don't think the Kal'dorei would stand for long against the Horde's full might even if their forces didn't fall for a feint that drew them off elsewhere.
11/14/2018 05:04 PMPosted by Savanovic
11/14/2018 04:51 PMPosted by Galarion
That's a lot to handle. Considering the Night Evles are gaining literally nothing from the Alliance(no aide and no consideration what so ever), with Anduin out right refusing her aide


What the hell are you talking about? They do get aid and consideration, the player character and Worgen go with Tyrande. Anduin is rebuked because this is not the Horde, Anduin does not have dictatorial powers over all the other members on all decisions. Stormwind is packed with Night Elf refugees. The Alliance also provided plenty of aid to them when Garrosh invaded Ashenvale.

Let's ask the opposite question, where the hell would the Night Elves go without the Alliance at this moment? They gonna fight off the entire Horde who just genocided them by themselves? Or maybe they're going to just surrender to the people putting them in death camps in Darkshore? Where are the refugees in Stormwind gonna go?

This "Night Elves gain nothing from the Alliance" stuff is getting very very stupid.


Genn disobeys orders to go himself, and says as much right to Anduin's face. And the Champion is sent as an afterthought after Anduin learns that after refusing the night Elves any aide they decided to do it themselves. He sent you to try to save face, thats the only reason.
11/14/2018 05:05 PMPosted by Galarion
1. you're right, they do need allies. but the allies they have aren't helping. If they're not helping you in your time of need are they really allies?


fighting the horde is helping.. the alliance responded to the call and they are currently at war that the horde started on the nelfs.
If the alliance don't have naval superiority they can't send help, their seat of power is on EK.
if the horde gains naval superiority and defeat the alliance in both kultiras and EK what the nelfs could do to stop them? why they have to act emotionally ? that is the kind of behavior that makes you be killed.
11/14/2018 05:07 PMPosted by Rothiron
Apart from the Alliance fighting the Horde and promising to get you your lands back, with Saurfang presenting a possible way to undermine Sylvanas and help to end the war with less casualties for all of the Alliance races?


"I'll get your lands back later, more important stuff right now. Oh, they're blighting the lands making them not worth getting back and have your people rounded up in literal death camps right now? Oh well, still wait till later, no sense in attacking now and possibly saving some of those people and the land. Gotta wait till later when more of your people are dead, raised as the enemy, and your lands are all but permanently rendered un-livable by blight. But you'll have it back I promise!

Oh and this guy who lead the war that lead up to the crimes your your people? I let his !@# go in hopes that maybe he will disrupt the Horde, who knows though, he still doesn't like us and is still just as likely to kill us as he is the enemy, but I let him go without consulting you all the same.

We're totally still best buds though right? You can totally see how I've got your back here right? Right?" -Anduin
Because unless you think they're the biggest power fantasy in existence, the idea that the Kaldorei (with no infrastructure support and a decimated population) can SOLO the Horde is absurd. Beyond that it does sort of scream a repeat of the High Elves using the losses they incurred in the 2nd war as an excuse to leave the Alliance, when hundreds of Humans died to help them. A large part of he reason the Alliance is even IN this war is because of their relationship with the Kaldorei.

Teldrassil was NOT the Alliance's fault (unless you include the NEs as part of them, as they also agreed to send troops south to Silithus as well). Allowing the Horde to have access to the Azerite of Silithus was as dangerous to the Kaldorei individually, as it would be the for the Alliance as a whole (if not more). Beyond that, the Horde has traditionally been at war with the Kaldorei over resources and land. There is conflict on Kalimdor, whether the NEs were a part of the Alliance or not.

Plus, its not like Anduin was BSing Tyrande about his reasons for not supporting her move to reclaim Darkshore "right now". "Lost Honor" reinforced that yes, the Alliance is stretched very thin; even if they're winning atm (and it chronologically takes place BEFORE the Battle of Dazar'alor). Anduin is merely doing what he believes to be right for the Alliance as a whole; Tyrande is doing what she believes is right for the NEs; that's all it really boils down to. Whether there are consequences for either of their decisions, I doubt we'll get to see them for quite a while however.
11/14/2018 04:56 PMPosted by Grandblade
I hate clickbait titles that make you open the thread to find out who "they" is.
You can mouseover thread titles to see the first few sentences. Or that might be a function of chrome with all links.
Because Blizzard won't ever let them leave. They will invent reasons for them to stay if needed.

Once you submit to the Empire, you're trapped forever.
11/14/2018 05:18 PMPosted by Hahahahahaha
11/14/2018 04:56 PMPosted by Grandblade
I hate clickbait titles that make you open the thread to find out who "they" is.
You can mouseover thread titles to see the first few sentences. Or that might be a function of chrome with all links.


Nah, filthy Firefox user here and it works.
11/14/2018 05:14 PMPosted by Galarion
"I'll get your lands back later, more important stuff right now. Oh, they're blighting the lands making them not worth getting back and have your people rounded up in literal death camps right now? Oh well, still wait till later, no sense in attacking now and possibly saving some of those people and the land. Gotta wait till later when more of your people are dead, raised as the enemy, and your lands are all but permanently rendered un-livable by blight. But you'll have it back I promise!

Oh and this guy who lead the war that lead up to the crimes your your people? I let his !@# go in hopes that maybe he will disrupt the Horde, who knows though, he still doesn't like us and is still just as likely to kill us as he is the enemy, but I let him go without consulting you all the same.

We're totally still best buds though right? You can totally see how I've got your back here right? Right?" -Anduin
I'm getting the impression you just made this thread to whinge and that no amount of logic will actually convince you that soloing a world super-power that outnumbers you five to one is a terrible idea.
11/14/2018 05:26 PMPosted by Rothiron
I'm getting the impression you just made this thread to whinge and that no amount of logic will actually convince you that soloing a world super-power that outnumbers you five to one is a terrible idea.


Especially if the primary Horde Factions in Darkshore were allowed to act like they should, should they realize they cannot hold that shoreline. The Bilgewater and Forsaken should turn Darkshore into a lifeless husk (for many reason), rather than allowing the Alliance to turn it into a convenient beach-head. Ashenvale is the real prize anyway, with its immense resources and easy access to Stonetalon, Felwood, Winterspring, Azshara, Durotar, and the Barrens. Sacrificing Darkshore is a small price to pay to reinforce their holdings there; and the only thing really stopping them from "worst case scenario-ing" Darkshore is the game mechanics themselves.
There's nothing stopping them from joining the Horde. We could allow them to go back to their savage amazonian ways (within reason) and even throw in some premium "life" insurance.
Tyrande has minimal room to take umbrage, as it is. Anduin released Saurfang without yelling at Genn that only the Light could tell him what to do, or murdering his way thru the Stormwind City Guard first.
11/14/2018 05:56 PMPosted by Oziel
Tyrande has minimal room to take umbrage, as it is. Anduin released Saurfang without yelling at Genn that only the Light could tell him what to do, or murdering his way thru the Stormwind City Guard first.
lol, that's right. I didn't think about her freeing Illidan in relation to this topic.

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