What reason do they have to stay?

Story Forum
11/14/2018 05:56 PMPosted by Oziel
Tyrande has minimal room to take umbrage, as it is. Anduin released Saurfang without yelling at Genn that only the Light could tell him what to do, or murdering his way thru the Stormwind City Guard first.


HOLY CRAP! Totally forgot about her freeing Illidan lol!
1. Thankfully, many Night Elves were sucessfully evacuated to Stormwind and people don’t seem to give Anduin credit. If he hadn’t sent forces at all, the Night Elves would have been stranded on Kalimdor and potentially be wiped out. People need to look at the good he does as well as the bad.

2. ^ Refer to the 1st point, but also Anduin is doing his best, he can’t send troops to all corners of Azeroth at once and he need the aid of other racial leaders if he needs to use their forces. He’s unfortunately not a percfect leader, but you can’t say he isn’t trying.

3. That same Orc also spared Malfurion’s life and is currnetly preparing to depose the one responsible for ordering the genocide of her people and prevent further needless slaughter.

Trust me, you DON’T wanna join the Horde right now. Not only is the in-game faction fighting amongst itself, but the Horde community is up in arms against eachother too.

You’re FAR better off on the Alliance, where most of your issues boil down to lack of representation from core races like Ne’s, Dwarves, Gnomes,......pretty much any race that isn’t human; lack of representation from your huge roster of non-human figures, and constantly being made to look like idiots for the sole purpose of moving the plot forward. So....pretty much just a lack of proper character representation.

While you guys actually have a solid reason to fight us, our reasoning to fight is pretty much based on a HUGE assumption by and the ambition of our ‘Warchief’.
11/14/2018 05:58 PMPosted by Rothiron
11/14/2018 05:56 PMPosted by Oziel
Tyrande has minimal room to take umbrage, as it is. Anduin released Saurfang without yelling at Genn that only the Light could tell him what to do, or murdering his way thru the Stormwind City Guard first.
lol, that's right. I didn't think about her freeing Illidan in relation to this topic.


She'll get my support in her vengeance for Delaryn and the like, when she owns up to Duke Lionheart's murder. ^_-
11/14/2018 06:03 PMPosted by Oziel
She'll get my support in her vengeance for Delaryn and the like, when she owns up to Duke Lionheart's murder. ^_-
We'll be seeing Lionheart, maybe one of the only humans ever in a position to diffuse tensions between orcs and humans, murdered in glorious HD within a year.
11/14/2018 06:07 PMPosted by Rothiron
11/14/2018 06:03 PMPosted by Oziel
She'll get my support in her vengeance for Delaryn and the like, when she owns up to Duke Lionheart's murder. ^_-
We'll be seeing Lionheart, maybe one of the only humans ever in a position to diffuse tensions between orcs and humans, murdered in glorious HD within a year.


I'm sure he'll be the class leader for the upcoming Forsaken Paladins.
11/14/2018 06:08 PMPosted by Oziel
I'm sure he'll be the class leader for the upcoming Forsaken Paladins.
...I'd be entirely okay with this.
11/14/2018 05:15 PMPosted by Droité
they're the biggest power fantasy in existence, the idea that the Kaldorei (with no infrastructure support and a decimated population) can SOLO the Horde

I would like to point out that throughout "Terror of Darkshore" the Horde is represented through Orcs, Forsaken, Darkspear Tolls, a Blood Elf, and Bilgewater shredders, while the only Alliance forces there and presented as a force that will stand against the entire Horde on Kalimdor* is the Night Elves.

*Tauren are the only ones of the main Horde members now based on Kalimdor - which does include the Forsaken now - that are not represented in "Terror of Darkshore."

11/14/2018 04:51 PMPosted by Galarion
What reason do the night Elves have to stay in the Alliance after 8.1? I am asking this seriously.

Honestly? I would say the Night Elves should stay in the Alliance to show Anduin up, so that when the Humans need aid the NIght Elves will show up and be like "This is how you help an ally out."
11/14/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Amadis
11/14/2018 05:15 PMPosted by Droité
they're the biggest power fantasy in existence, the idea that the Kaldorei (with no infrastructure support and a decimated population) can SOLO the Horde

I would like to point out that throughout "Terror of Darkshore" the Horde is represented through Orcs, Forsaken, Darkspear Tolls, a Blood Elf, and Bilgewater shredders, while the only Alliance forces there and presented as a force that will stand against the entire Horde on Kalimdor* is the Night Elves.

*Tauren are the only ones of the main Horde members now based on Kalimdor - which does include the Forsaken now - that are not represented in "Terror of Darkshore."

11/14/2018 04:51 PMPosted by Galarion
What reason do the night Elves have to stay in the Alliance after 8.1? I am asking this seriously.

Honestly? I would say the Night Elves should stay in the Alliance to show Anduin up, so that when the Humans need aid the NIght Elves will show up and be like "This is how you help an ally out."


Except the very next thing you see in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQDLjqAbFac is Gilnean support along with the Champion of the Alliance there helping the NEs. Or do you mean the SW army who is so drained of troops that they are at the point that they will need to conscript civilians to fight? The one's committed to the Battle of Dazar'alor seeking to gain a critical strategic advantage that can turn the tide of the war?

Come off it man, SW has been doing its part in this farce of a war, as have the others of the EK, or do you think Mekkatorque being on ice is because he wants to be?
11/14/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Saiphas
11/14/2018 06:40 PMPosted by Amadis
...
I would like to point out that throughout "Terror of Darkshore" the Horde is represented through Orcs, Forsaken, Darkspear Tolls, a Blood Elf, and Bilgewater shredders, while the only Alliance forces there and presented as a force that will stand against the entire Horde on Kalimdor* is the Night Elves.

*Tauren are the only ones of the main Horde members now based on Kalimdor - which does include the Forsaken now - that are not represented in "Terror of Darkshore."

...
Honestly? I would say the Night Elves should stay in the Alliance to show Anduin up, so that when the Humans need aid the NIght Elves will show up and be like "This is how you help an ally out."

Except the very next thing you see in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQDLjqAbFac is Gilnean support

Like the Tauren, the Gilneans are also not represented in "Terror of Darkshore."

That clip does go to show, though, that the Night Elves are definitely about unity, which goes to support my second point you quoted. Genn's repeated speeches about unity and his being there definitely supports that as well.

11/14/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Saiphas
along with the Champion of the Alliance there helping the NEs.

The Champion of the Alliance that will be able to be both at Darkshore and Zuldazar as magically as Nathanos will be able to? Not sure what your point is there.

11/14/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Saiphas
Or do you mean the SW army who is so drained of troops that they are at the point that they will need to conscript civilians to fight?
11/14/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Saiphas
SW has been doing its part in this farce of a war

Farce of a war is right. Arathi has no story relevance other than to drain Stormwind's troops.

11/14/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Saiphas
as have the others of the EK, or do you think Mekkatorque being on ice is because he wants to be?

Which has what relevance to what I posted?

11/14/2018 06:49 PMPosted by Saiphas
Come off it man

Someone's grumpy.
Even before my 'I hate Anduin' phase transformed into the much more rational 'I want to throw Baine into the Maelstorm' phase I didn't ever think Anduin had anything but the best intentions for the Night Elves. Even now, I feel he's sending troops for a decisive end to the war that would ultimately save more lives.

To his eyes he, not incorrectly, likely views Darkshore as just a way to kill what precious few Kaldorei are left. One he wouldn't blame them for because it's their home, but still.
Arathi secures the northern approach of the Eastern Kingdoms and the industrial heartland of Kaz Modan. Arathi is a buffer zone to ensure the Horde can not push south from their remaining bases in the Northern EK and threaten the population centers there. Giiven the ability of Forsaken to employ WMDs, and how those are absolutely devastating to enclosed environs such as IF, you bet you butt I would want something to keep the Horde forces from my industrial capacity.

Re: Mekkatorque et al, The entire Alliance is in this fight, the damn thing isnt just for Darkshore, or did you miss the memo that sylvanas pretty much wants to torch Stormwind including the NE refugee's still there?

Re: The Champion, he is the representative force that Anduin sends to aid the Night Elves, as demonstrated in the broadcast text in the run up to Darkshore.

You are impugning a people who lost their homeland once before, who bled to defending others for over half a decade before they got their homeland back, and essentially saying they do not understand what the NEs went through. That's got my dander up. Unless one human nation is the same as the next in your eyes, which *shrug* is like saying a mexicano is the same as a guatamalteco or a colombiano.
I would like to point out that throughout "Terror of Darkshore" the Horde is represented through Orcs, Forsaken, Darkspear Tolls, a Blood Elf, and Bilgewater shredders, while the only Alliance forces there and presented as a force that will stand against the entire Horde on Kalimdor* is the Night Elves.

*Tauren are the only ones of the main Horde members now based on Kalimdor - which does include the Forsaken now - that are not represented in "Terror of Darkshore."
Just because the Horde has an army representative of most of their races in the war doesn't mean that it is representative of the full scale and might of their armies. They're also busy in Arathi and in Zandalar. If the Night Elves went toe to toe with an undivided Horde army, they'd get swamped. And seceding from the Alliance makes that sort of outcome infinitely more likely.
11/14/2018 07:16 PMPosted by Saiphas
Arathi is a buffer zone to ensure the Horde can not push south from their remaining bases in the Northern EK and threaten the population centers there. Giiven the ability of Forsaken to employ WMDs, and how those are absolutely devastating to enclosed environs such as IF, you bet you butt I would want something to keep the Horde forces from my industrial capacity.

That's my point. All of this? None of this is addressed in the story. No more than Droité's idea that the Horde would salt the earth in retreat. It's fun to speculate outside the lines we are given, but my point is that nothing you speculated about Arathi or anything about why we're even there is ever a focus of the story or even bothered to be put in even some quest text.

11/14/2018 07:16 PMPosted by Saiphas
Re: Mekkatorque et al, The entire Alliance is in this fight, the damn thing isnt just for Darkshore, or did you miss the memo that sylvanas pretty much wants to torch Stormwind including the NE refugee's still there?

Maybe you missed that there are Night Elves participating in Zuldazar as well? What is your point in including everyone in that interest when that involves the Night Elves as well?

11/14/2018 07:16 PMPosted by Saiphas
You are impugning a people who lost their homeland once before, who bled to defending others for over half a decade before they got their homeland back, and essentially saying they do not understand what the NEs went through. That's got my dander up. Unless one human nation is the same as the next in your eyes, which *shrug* is like saying a mexicano is the same as a guatamalteco or a colombiano.

Obviously you don't mean Stromgarde, as narratively the people of Stromgarde don't exist outside of some NPCs that only show up sometimes when the warfront scenarios are active. Stormwind? There has been no narrative importance placed on Stormwind's burning back at the end of the First War in BfA. If anything, the one time any emphasis was placed on Stormwind's burning was in Varian's backstory in the comics and such that showed that Varian spent all his time riding out to kill Orcs in an obsessive hunt for Garona. Genn and the Gilneans have even more recent experience in having their country desecrated by the very same monster, and they do go out to aid the Night Elves. Varian would have understood what the Night Elves went through, yes. Genn understands what the Night Elves are going through, yes. Anduin does not. You're the one lumping all Humans together into a singular mentality here.

11/14/2018 07:16 PMPosted by Rothiron
Just because the Horde has an army representative of most of their races in the war doesn't mean that it is representative of the full scale and might of their armies. They're also busy in Arathi and in Zandalar.

If anything, the Night Elves forcing the Horde to draw forces to Darkshore probably helps the Alliance be even more successful at all other fronts as well.
Amadis, Warcraft is more than just WoW, Blizzard views the entire setting holistically not just WoW in its narrative. Anduin is trying to balance the needs of all the Alliance races. Genn goes to preserve the Alliance because he knows that there is no right call. Stormwind's past IS relevant to this discussion because you again, are impugning Stormwind and Anduin's actions when it is not warranted.

In no way shape or form has blizzard ever solely set scenes through the game, you are being obtuse to argue so.

Those night elves involved in Zul'Dazar? They are volunteers, they are there by choice. You come across as being deliberately arguing in bad faith to advance your arguments because you refuse to acknowledge that Stormwind has bearing the cost of a Global War taking place over multiple fronts.
11/14/2018 07:51 PMPosted by Amadis
If anything, the Night Elves forcing the Horde to draw forces to Darkshore probably helps the Alliance be even more successful at all other fronts as well.
In a hypothetical event where after the Night Elves secede from the Alliance, the Alliance doesn't just eventually make peace or a truce (that the Night Elves would have no say in diplomatically) which would enable the Horde to turn its full force towards the already diminished Night Elves and just mop the floor with them, yes.

It just makes more sense for the Night Elves to stay in the Alliance and benefit from the mutual defense pacts and the shared communications.
I can't believe that after all the ironic quotes of 'faction pride' i'v participated with in this expansion, someone actually managed to get my patriotism to kick in.

No, the Night Elves are not in fact forcing the Horde to draw their forces to Darkshore, not except one force in particular, and that is the Forsaken. Don't let the Shatterspear Camp or the Terror of Darkshore fool you, this is OUR op, and it is spelled out as such from the moment you step foot there.

The majority, and by majority I mean literally all but one unit, and a robot unit at that, are Forsaken in Darkshore. Our primary figureheads are Forsaken and Banshees, our intel is being gathered by shadow priests, even our LABOR FORCE is undead. The goblins are just doing the drilling at the dredge, at first I was worried this was going to be some hybrid force given the mixture of Goblin architecture with Forsaken themes, but it is very clearly not.

We're providing much of the tech including not one but six ships, and a new class of Forsaken Flagship we've never even seen before. We are providing the spellcasters, the soldiers, the gunmen, and all of the stuff we do there is with a distinctly Forsaken theme. The people of Lordaeron do not need the other members of the Horde to babysit them, thank you very much. Even with your fancy forbidden magics and the Gilneans.
11/14/2018 08:08 PMPosted by Darethy
I can't believe that after all the ironic quotes of 'faction pride' i'v participated with in this expansion, someone actually managed to get my patriotism to kick in.

No, the Night Elves are not in fact forcing the Horde to draw their forces to Darkshore, not except one force in particular, and that is the Forsaken. Don't let the Shatterspear Camp or the Terror of Darkshore fool you, this is OUR op, and it is spelled out as such from the moment you step foot there.

The majority, and by majority I mean literally all but one unit, and a robot unit at that, are Forsaken in Darkshore. Our primary figureheads are Forsaken and Banshees, our intel is being gathered by shadow priests, even our LABOR FORCE is undead. The goblins are just doing the drilling at the dredge, at first I was worried this was going to be some hybrid force given the mixture of Goblin architecture with Forsaken themes, but it is very clearly not.

We're providing much of the tech including not one but six ships, and a new class of Forsaken Flagship we've never even seen before. We are providing the spellcasters, the soldiers, the gunmen, and all of the stuff we do there is with a distinctly Forsaken theme. The people of Lordaeron do not need the other members of the Horde to babysit them, thank you very much. Even with your fancy forbidden magics and the Gilneans.


Hey, hey now, I take a bit of issue with that lol! By the looks of Darkshore there is plenty of Bilgewater tech too. The Forsaken may have the Lion's share, but don't detract from our efforts Dare. We may traditionally take a support role, but Darkshore is still our playground too. :D
Do you know what happened to Stormgarde, Silvermoon, Gilneas, Gnomeragan and Kul Tiras after they left the Alliance/didnt ask for help?(until it was Retconned in Warcraft3, Kul Tiras left the Alliance, then it was recton that never left the Alliance and was totally loyal to it, ironic) They all fell apart and were all but destroyed, with not an ally to turn to for help.

11/14/2018 04:58 PMPosted by Drahliana
3. The Alliance is LOSING this war. That's a plain fact. if the Horde's greatest general makes himself available as a weapon to turn the tide, you bloody well take it. Ask Maiev why she freed those Demon Hunters awhile back.


The Alliance is NOT LOSING. At worse they are suffering badly but from the looks of it so are the Horde. Ultimately, the Alliance turns it around in 8.1 and all but push the Horde to the brink of collapse.
11/14/2018 08:20 PMPosted by Droité
11/14/2018 08:08 PMPosted by Darethy
I can't believe that after all the ironic quotes of 'faction pride' i'v participated with in this expansion, someone actually managed to get my patriotism to kick in.

No, the Night Elves are not in fact forcing the Horde to draw their forces to Darkshore, not except one force in particular, and that is the Forsaken. Don't let the Shatterspear Camp or the Terror of Darkshore fool you, this is OUR op, and it is spelled out as such from the moment you step foot there.

The majority, and by majority I mean literally all but one unit, and a robot unit at that, are Forsaken in Darkshore. Our primary figureheads are Forsaken and Banshees, our intel is being gathered by shadow priests, even our LABOR FORCE is undead. The goblins are just doing the drilling at the dredge, at first I was worried this was going to be some hybrid force given the mixture of Goblin architecture with Forsaken themes, but it is very clearly not.

We're providing much of the tech including not one but six ships, and a new class of Forsaken Flagship we've never even seen before. We are providing the spellcasters, the soldiers, the gunmen, and all of the stuff we do there is with a distinctly Forsaken theme. The people of Lordaeron do not need the other members of the Horde to babysit them, thank you very much. Even with your fancy forbidden magics and the Gilneans.


Hey, hey now, I take a bit of issue with that lol! By the looks of Darkshore there is plenty of Bilgewater tech too. The Forsaken may have the Lion's share, but don't detract from our efforts Dare. We may traditionally take a support role, but Darkshore is still our playground too. :D


Sorry about that Droite, no offense was meant. Yeah, the Bilgewater is making the landing pads for the blight bombers, they got a ship out there doing on the fly repairs for the Forsaken fleet, and they're helping with the mine demolitions.

....

And the giant robot mech is pretty cool.
11/14/2018 08:25 PMPosted by Zerde
Do you know what happened to Stormgarde, Silvermoon, Gilneas, Gnomeragan and Kul Tiras after they left the Alliance/didnt ask for help?(until it was Retconned in Warcraft that they never left the Alliance and was totally loyal to it, ironic) They all fell apart and were all but destroyed, with not an ally to turn to for help.

11/14/2018 04:58 PMPosted by Drahliana
3. The Alliance is LOSING this war. That's a plain fact. if the Horde's greatest general makes himself available as a weapon to turn the tide, you bloody well take it. Ask Maiev why she freed those Demon Hunters awhile back.


The Alliance is NOT LOSING. At worse they are suffering badly but from the looks of it so are the Horde. Ultimately, the Alliance turns it around in 8.1 and all but push the Horde to the brink of collapse.


Naw Zerde, the Alliance was definitely losing before 8.1, both framed in BfL and though elegy/a good war. It is part of the reason Sylvanas wants to strike, because the Alliance has not recovered as fast as the Horde did from the Legion

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