Please revert 7.3.5 leveling changes

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I really can't stand any of it. There was nothing fun or well thought out to make the leveling process in wow better apart from making the zones scale with from X level to X level. Everything else is awful. I cannot fathom how horrible the experience is and feels like. How many things got changed for the worse and how it literally destroys your game from within. How am I suppose to encourage anyone to play this? This absurd grind that doesn't represent how the game is and feels like at end game?

1. Mobs having insane hp is not fun - it does not promote any idea of learning your class whatsoever. It does not give any incentive of feeling good to rotate your 2 low level button abilities for over 30 sec against a pack of trash mobs. The only thing with high HP should be bosses and that's even way too high as well right now.

2. We still need X level to have X abilities - Another awful thing from a leveling design perspective that hasn't changed. It's beyond outdated to have 3 or 4 abilities until lvl 40 or so and depend on having X level to acquire talents. The entire idea of when a class gets X abilities has needed an overhaul for years.

3. The exp curve is garbage - This is not only an issue but it also hurts people wanting to level. I defended the idea back then that this wasn't an intentional motive to force grind players into either wasting time leveling and extra sub or buy a lvl110 boost. Now I have no choice but see this as an awful business marketing idea. This won't bring you new players nor it will keep players in the game. It will burn us out quicker than poptarts on the microwave.

4. Heirlooms are not worth it - Not only did you destroy heirlooms but the gold sink I wasted on getting every armor was pointless. This is not only disrespectful but an atrocity to the entire idea of leveling quicker. I have a monk full geared in heirlooms and the monk buff and I barely feel the exp. THAT'S HOW BAD IT IS.

5. Forcing the heritage armor of allied races via leveling- Another thing that was done wrong. Thankfully the original races don't need to go through this. Just fix the main allied races to acquire the heritage set once you unlock them TY. Should have been done in the first place like this. You need to promote allied races better. This is a giant step forward when you change it. It's stupid to have a new person come into the game. Finally exalt themselves with nightborne and then have to relevel his mage to get a mog set.

I pretty much rage quit razorfen downs because it took me almost 10 minutes to get to the spiderboss and then another min + to kill it. This is beyond ridiculous. This experience should be the END GAME dungeons/mythic +. Not the leveling one. This is coming from a player who has 18 alts. 4 At lvl 120 while others at 110. These changes doesn't help anybody. Please change them.
50 hours of getting 12 boar tusks before you get to play the game isn't fun?
10/08/2018 03:51 AMPosted by Oneone
50 hours of getting 12 boar tusks before you get to play the game isn't fun?


It is not.
I'd say you are over reacting a fair bit here honestly. First of all, mobs don't have "insane health pools." They just don't get one shot at more.
Heirlooms absolutely still matter as well. They are still powerful in terms of stats but again don't make us one shot stuff. And, maybe you glossed over this but, they make you level 50 percent faster! That should be useful!
They also changed when you get spells in recent patches so it is a bit smoother but I'm with you in that we should have every spell by say level 40 at most.
Anyway they made a bunch of adjustments in the prepatch to leveling. They made mobs have less health across the board from 40 and upwards and dramatically decreased the experience needed around 60 to 80.

I'm not sure what else anyone might want other than to go back to one shorting mobs and being able to level 1 to 100 without leaving your city.

Those things just aren't healthy for an mmo rpg. They won't be changing back.

If you feel other tweaks like the ones I mentioned need to be implemented include some numbers and math to support your statements about specific areas of the game!
Yeah, leveling is pretty garbage, especially between 60 to 80. Don't bother with dungeons, they're not worth the exp anymore except dungeons that have a bunch of quests like Wailing Caverns.

I'm fine with heritage armor being tied to leveling, though. It's just extra fluff for taking your time to level something.
I agree with you OP. I got my nightbourne done like 2 days before they changed the XP and turned off the taps. I found the way I did it horrible, doing it again...NOT interested.

Why is that a bad decision from the devs? It means I have LESS incentive to stay logged in, as leveling up other races for the heritage armor would at least keep me going for a few days of played time.

Honestly I think that they want WoW to go away so that Overwatch can be what they all focus on. Funny thing is, WoW has been here 14 years, and the fanbase is pretty loyal. FPS don't last that long. I was playing Rainbow 6 FPS when WoW can out...where is that game now?
I agree with Metro here, one shotting takes away from the game at least when you are level vs level, but I do believe that you should be able to down trash mobs with the first 2 or 3 swings and of course final quest bosses, etc, should be a learning experience, ie: I can't kill him with 3 hits and he pummels me unless I do this extra, or that extra. The one thing I don't like is their attempt to scale creatures you've already surpassed based on ilevel. I believe that once I've completed the area and gotten gear to be better I should be able to go back to that area and blow thru it, not have to struggle to down that stuff again. If I've raided, or done enough WQ to gear a toon beyond the content at max level, that content shouldn't get harder, it should stay the same thereby making it easier to continue to do that, the grindiness can be tuff enough without having to spend half my time trying to do the emissary daily. Once I've scaled past that content it should forever be easier.
10/08/2018 04:02 AMPosted by Metrohaha
Heirlooms absolutely still matter as well. They are still powerful in terms of stats but again don't make us one shot stuff. And, maybe you glossed over this but, they make you level 50 percent faster! That should be useful!


Are they powerful, Metro? If I'm replacing heirlooms with rare gear, that means heirlooms are roughly uncommon quality - that isn't powerful.

And then I genuinely have to ask if you've leveled any alts after 7.3.5? This "50% increase" is barely noticable now imo, and only really useful on principal. But seeing as 50% /is/ nothing to scoff at even if I'm not feeling it, I genuinely pity anybody without heirlooms. If 150% XP still feels like crap, then 100% is horrid.

10/08/2018 04:02 AMPosted by Metrohaha
I'm not sure what else anyone might want other than to go back to one shorting mobs and being able to level 1 to 100 without leaving your city.


How about a reasonable balance between two extremes? We've gone from steamrolling to a ridiculous grind. I'd prefer a middle ground. Monster difficulty is fine, but the experience gains should be increased a bit. Even an additional 5k XP per quest would move mountains. As it stands, I'm not enjoying my favorite activity: rolling a new alt and picking a transmog.
The leveling changes were bad now we have barren stretches of levels where leveling doesn't reward a skill or talent. We also get weaker as we level due to mobs scaling but non heirloom gear not. Its super fun to have the exact same mob i was just killing take longer to kill due to leveling up.

Also instead of making dungeons better for leveling by using time walking scaling technology to level down players to their friends levels and letting them queue they made leveling brackets and xp nerf for people outside them harsher. They also removed the end of dungeon reward xp and put it on the boss so its subject to the xp level bracket nerfs. All of this was to make questing more appealing since apparently according to Blizzard and some posters on the forum doing group activities in an MMO is the wrong way to play over questing through old content that hasnt been updated in years in half dead zones alone and gathering herbs.
I'd say you are over reacting a fair bit here honestly. First of all, mobs don't have "insane health pools." They just don't get one shot at more.


I'd say he's not. I get that they don't want us "one shorting" mobs, but that could have been fixed easily with a small change. Instead, in typical Blizz fashion they "fix" a small problem with a sledgehammer. Increasing mob hp AND nerfing heirlooms into the ground AND destroying dungeon xp AND increasing XP needed across the board AND scaling the world AND removing all xp potions AND killing RAF, was way beyond overkill. Nope I'd say he's not over reacting at all.
10/08/2018 04:02 AMPosted by Metrohaha
And, maybe you glossed over this but, they make you level 50 percent faster! That should be useful!

Yeah but they increased the amount of xp you needed to level, so putting heirlooms on just puts you back at the standard, non heirloom leveling slog that we had before this change.
10/08/2018 04:24 AMPosted by Larger
I'd say you are over reacting a fair bit here honestly. First of all, mobs don't have "insane health pools." They just don't get one shot at more.


I'd say he's not. I get that they don't want us "one shorting" mobs, but that could have been fixed easily with a small change. Instead, in typical Blizz fashion they "fix" a small problem with a sledgehammer. Increasing mob hp AND nerfing heirlooms into the ground AND destroying dungeon xp AND increasing XP needed across the board AND scaling the world AND removing all xp potions AND killing RAF, was way beyond overkill. Nope I'd say he's not over reacting at all.


Ive noticed green posters seem to try and downplay just how much was nerfed and removed for leveling. Its nice to see it all listed out occasionally.
I've said this before on threads like this and I'll say this many more times -

TL;DR: Level scaling itself was fine and much needed, the problem is that the current progression set up is not designed for it, it's designed for a speedy leveling process and as such the leveling experience is pretty bad right now.

More in depth thought process

I leveled a LF Draenai to 110 and got his armor and am currently working on a Mag'Har Orc but I have observed the following

1) Leveling is both too slow and too fast at the same time, in that it's slow enough to where it feels like a slog but it's so fast that itemization is quite poor. If I didn't have my heirlooms, I imagine my lower level characters would be in much worse shape

2) Progression from 1-60 feels mostly OK because you get new abilities/passives every 2-4 levels depending on what class you play. 60-80 feels really bad because of how much slower it is (I leveled my LFD through the old 60-80 post 7.3.5 so I can't comment on any changes but the feedback I've read is less than appealing) and the abilities dry up, so you go very long stretches without gaining anything at all. In Legion from 100-110 you gained Artifact abilities and from 110-120 you gain Azerite gear (however flawed it's current implementation may be) so there is at least the illusion of progress. No such system system exists for the lower levels

3) The quest design and the layout of the areas reflect older design models and systems that really show their age. BC content especially is over a decade old and once you get to MoP at level 80, the game experience improves dramatically.

I've had a few friends of mine come back to the game after years of being unsubbed and they don't stay because of the leveling experience. I told them to use the free boosts they can get if they purchase the expansion because they want to catch back up with everything that's happened and the current systems are a slog.

I sincerely hope Blizzard is looking into doing something with their lower end systems because it desperately needs revision if this game is to continue to survive. The feedback I got from my friends was that leveling a new character was a bad experience and they didn't want to spend the money boosting more characters if they wanted to play an alt.

I would imagine other new players are having similar experiences

My hope is that the next expansion doesn't have us go anywhere new, just spends all of the devs time revising/updating/adding to new zones and redoing the progression systems from 1-110. The lower end game direly needs it.
10/08/2018 04:02 AMPosted by Metrohaha
I'd say you are over reacting a fair bit here honestly. First of all, mobs don't have "insane health pools." They just don't get one shot at more.
Heirlooms absolutely still matter as well. They are still powerful in terms of stats but again don't make us one shot stuff. And, maybe you glossed over this but, they make you level 50 percent faster! That should be useful!
They also changed when you get spells in recent patches so it is a bit smoother but I'm with you in that we should have every spell by say level 40 at most.
Anyway they made a bunch of adjustments in the prepatch to leveling. They made mobs have less health across the board from 40 and upwards and dramatically decreased the experience needed around 60 to 80.

I'm not sure what else anyone might want other than to go back to one shorting mobs and being able to level 1 to 100 without leaving your city.

Those things just aren't healthy for an mmo rpg. They won't be changing back.

If you feel other tweaks like the ones I mentioned need to be implemented include some numbers and math to support your statements about specific areas of the game!

All I wrote is 100% legit. I experienced it. I played it. I feedback on it because it sucks and I know it sucks for other players. Leveling is dead until it has changes. It's that simple. There's nothing fun about leveling. Also that 50% heirloom exp is not noticeable whatsoever. Heirlooms would easely need a 200% exp buff just to matter enough like it should have been in the first place. Please stop trolling and being a yes man/woman. Next time I see nonsense like this I'd report you.
Want to make levelling better?

Reverse the prune to MOP ability level.

Make scaling OPTIONAL. After almost eight years Ive done it all dozens of times.

Anyway they made a bunch of adjustments in the prepatch to leveling. They made mobs have less health across the board from 40 and upwards and dramatically decreased the experience needed around 60 to 80.


Yes they did, months after they were told what was wrong in the PTR. Draenor is still broken.
AFTER the 7.2.5 changes, I leveled 5 healers -- 1 of every healing class -- from 1 to 110 or 20 to 110. I did 50% dungeon runs and 50% solo questing.

I had NO PROBLEM solo questing all 5 of these HEALER specs.

And of course it was much more fun being able to pick from DOZENS of zones and 50+ quest hubs for "my level" quests. I leveled 5 toons without repeating a quest! And almost all of them were quests I had never done before.

Note that BEFORE the 7.2.5 changes I leveled 29 characters to 110. So I am more of an expert about leveling than most players.

And to me, the 7.2.5 changes were 100% improvement to outdoor questing and to dungeons. Nothing is perfect, of course, but everything that changed was improved.
10/08/2018 04:41 AMPosted by Aehl
Want to make levelling better?

Reverse the prune to MOP ability level.

Make scaling OPTIONAL. After almost eight years Ive done it all dozens of times.


+100000000

There's no reason that they couldn't have just had it be based on an NPC like all the zones seem to be turning into. I'd much rather outlevel a zone, or be able to help friends with lowbie dungeons than the crapfest they made everything.
Did you all now that we had changes on the leveling process in 8.0 too?

And I leveled 2 alts in 7.3.5 before the changes to know how it was working.

Leveling in 7.3.5 was fine or ok, but the level 60-80 experience it was the worst (much time spent and quests outdated), but in 8.0 (after the item scale) they reduced the XP needed to level in taht brancket and they reduced the health and damage of all of the mobs.

I think now it's more palatable.

And heirlooms having the same power of blue rares is intended (they don't want OP chars to ruin the exeperience of someone that is new to the game)

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