Please revert 7.3.5 leveling changes

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10/09/2018 09:54 PMPosted by Nighdarke
I had been trying to hang on this expansion, but tonight I'm done. I have no desire whatsoever anymore to level a new toon from scratch, they've ruined that with scaling the old zones and making it take so much longer. It isn't challenging it's just tedious and boring.

And then tonight, oh tonight, I hit level 120 with my Warlock and as soon as I did two wolves destroyed my void walker in 5 seconds flat and then killed my little warlock 6 seconds after that.

Before, even at level 119, I could handle two to four of them with no difficulty really though I did have to be a little careful. But now it takes me about 5 minutes to kill just one and if a second one joins in that's it. And while fighting that one I have to keep healing my void walker. The only thing I feel when I try to play now is angry.

Good job blizzard, you drove another one away. I'm going to take the next few days to casually clean out their bags and bank and park them all in their garrisons. And then I'm going to go play a different game, one that's actually fun, one where they listen to their players when they have concerns. That used to be this game, but no longer.


This is what worries me overall. I want people to have the choice of leveling a new allied race, lvl 110 boosting or race change without thinking about giant drawbacks. Leveling is one of them, the heritage armor issue which they are somewhat addressing (they could go further on this) and feeling forced to pay 25$ for it. The choices are their but with huge drawbacks and I worry many others will just burn out outside of the end game content as well because it feels !@#$ty.
10/09/2018 09:54 PMPosted by Nighdarke
I had been trying to hang on this expansion, but tonight I'm done. I have no desire whatsoever anymore to level a new toon from scratch, they've ruined that with scaling the old zones and making it take so much longer. It isn't challenging it's just tedious and boring.

And then tonight, oh tonight, I hit level 120 with my Warlock and as soon as I did two wolves destroyed my void walker in 5 seconds flat and then killed my little warlock 6 seconds after that.

Before, even at level 119, I could handle two to four of them with no difficulty really though I did have to be a little careful. But now it takes me about 5 minutes to kill just one and if a second one joins in that's it. And while fighting that one I have to keep healing my void walker. The only thing I feel when I try to play now is angry.

Good job blizzard, you drove another one away. I'm going to take the next few days to casually clean out their bags and bank and park them all in their garrisons. And then I'm going to go play a different game, one that's actually fun, one where they listen to their players when they have concerns. That used to be this game, but no longer.


I'm getting there, too. I have far less time logged in for the beginning of this xpac than I have any other - including WoD.

I said this in another post, but the reward isn't as much for the effort as it was in Legion. It's 100 resources versus 700, 100 gold versus 400, azerite in an endless ladder that goes nowhere. The artifact weapons had achievable goals, the azerite armor is all over the place... you get it, then you replace it, maybe you'll have good traits, but probably not the ones you want.

I keep seeing people post "Maybe this game isn't for you," and they just don't get it. That's a horrible answer. "Don't like it? Bye!" for a game that over a decade old is shortsighted and trollish. I'd think at this point you'd want to hang on to every player you could.

No, the answer isn't to quit playing, it's to provide insight in to what the issues are and what would make it appealing to play again. Instead, players are intent on making fun of people leaving and pooh-poohing their concerns. It's pretty sad, actually.

I hope you find something you enjoy.
Leveling is probably in the best state its ever been in

Moderator - Edited for language. Derogatory language targeted at other members of the community violates the community code of conduct.
10/10/2018 05:39 AMPosted by Grimm
Leveling is probably in the best state its ever been in, what are you even talking about?

Everything you said is nonsense.


It's a shame you troll this way just for keks. Go away.
When I first started playing this game, my god it was SO much fun! But now, my god what the F happened?!! How did they utterly ruin that? It's frustrating to know what this game could be, how good it could be, and watch them take it down a path in the opposite direction. I actually want to play, but it's so unfun now I just can't anymore.
I hate that they changed it. The way it should have been done if they were deadset on scaling was to leave heirlooms exactly as they were, at the same pacing, the same power, and then scale it. That way, players would have choices - level up slowly, with pacing that sees you through a complete zone before you outlevel it, or use the heirlooms and do it the old way.

The changes (to make leveling faster) were done years ago as quality of life changes, and reversing them completely was against the game's best interest. Now you have a few old players that think it's the best thing since buttered bread, new players that want to get to end game to play with their friends as quickly as possible and can't use the previously available benefits through recruit-a-friend that give up and leave (as I've said, I know a few) and veteran players that just want to level up alts as quickly as possible without hassle to get to end game.

The issue is that the old zones are not as pretty, they are not as fun, and they are not as engaging. Nostalgia isn't enough when that content is being run yet again for the fortieth time. It's not more fun because it takes longer. Most want to play in endgame content. That's where the new tech is, the new features are, and where most players are.

This was a really bad idea, from the start. If anything, they should have revamped the quests and taken out some of the "get 12 pig parts" pieces to scale back how many quests there were in a zone, instead of scaling things at all.

I hate when they change or remove quality of life changes. Those should be ironclad. As a designer, deal with it, work with it, move on.

*edited for clarity
10/10/2018 06:11 AMPosted by Kalgromash
10/10/2018 05:39 AMPosted by Grimm
Leveling is probably in the best state its ever been in, what are you even talking about?

Everything you said is nonsense.


It's a shame you troll this way just for keks. Go away.


He's correct though. Zone scaling fixed the most glaring issue with leveling, ie, actually being able to enjoy the story while progressing through the process. Mob scaling fixed the 2nd most glaring issue. ie, mobs just keeling over giving the player a completely trivial experience that didn't feel like an adventure.
10/08/2018 08:03 AMPosted by Stonebody
10/08/2018 08:01 AMPosted by Beraaht
...

You can level 20-60 by doing 3 zones.

THREE. Zones.

The scaling is fine.
I just hit 30 and I've done 4 zones so far are you sure you're playing the right game??


How is that possible...I just hit 29 last night and I just set foot in the third zone, haven't even started it yet. No heirlooms.
I leveled 2 alts post 7.3.5

If (big if) I ever get Dark Iron Dwarves (work and family sucking away all my play time, the rep grind is slllllooooooow), no matter how badly I want that heritage armor, I'm gonna skip it and just race change some alts. The green post stating the OP is "overreacting" is a green poster badly underreacting. I will never level another alt with this "new and improved" system. Scaling was awesome. What's not awesome:

Mobs taking longer to kill while posing no danger
Leveling to 80 takes way too long (then suddenly, it goes super fast, just when the content gets more engaging. Like, what?)
Limited toolkit until 70ish.

In short, leveling is boring and slow. Used to be one of my fillers for content drought. Now I'll just unsub sooner.
10/10/2018 07:05 AMPosted by Beraaht
10/10/2018 06:11 AMPosted by Kalgromash
...

It's a shame you troll this way just for keks. Go away.


He's correct though. Zone scaling fixed the most glaring issue with leveling, ie, actually being able to enjoy the story while progressing through the process. Mob scaling fixed the 2nd most glaring issue. ie, mobs just keeling over giving the player a completely trivial experience that didn't feel like an adventure.


You left out them moving the goalpost back in the process with increasing the xp per level, and decreasing the stat effectiveness of all the heirloom gear. Leveling a new toon takes orders of magnitude more time now than it has in a long time, which is crap considering how many levels we have now.
10/10/2018 11:04 AMPosted by Angrysocks
<span class="truncated">...</span>

He's correct though. Zone scaling fixed the most glaring issue with leveling, ie, actually being able to enjoy the story while progressing through the process. Mob scaling fixed the 2nd most glaring issue. ie, mobs just keeling over giving the player a completely trivial experience that didn't feel like an adventure.


You left out them moving the goalpost back in the process with increasing the xp per level, and decreasing the stat effectiveness of all the heirloom gear. Leveling a new toon takes orders of magnitude more time now than it has in a long time, which is crap considering how many levels we have now.


Pretty much this. A halfway change comes out completely undone and unpolished. The game is old af and changing everything would be basically skipping an expansion just to overhaul it at this point. But why implement the leveling curve feature if you don't oversee every drawback it will create? Sadly it missed on so many things it destroyed the leveling fun factor in between. Overhaul feel of the leveling process vs mobs, exp, and how many abilities we have starting a character, must be done at some point in BFA. I hope...
10/10/2018 06:47 AMPosted by Sylverpaw
I hate that they changed it. The way it should have been done if they were deadset on scaling was to leave heirlooms exactly as they were, at the same pacing, the same power, and then scale it. That way, players would have choices - level up slowly, with pacing that sees you through a complete zone before you outlevel it, or use the heirlooms and do it the old way.

The changes (to make leveling faster) were done years ago as quality of life changes, and reversing them completely was against the game's best interest. Now you have a few old players that think it's the best thing since buttered bread, new players that want to get to end game to play with their friends as quickly as possible and can't use the previously available benefits through recruit-a-friend that give up and leave (as I've said, I know a few) and veteran players that just want to level up alts as quickly as possible without hassle to get to end game.

The issue is that the old zones are not as pretty, they are not as fun, and they are not as engaging. Nostalgia isn't enough when that content is being run yet again for the fortieth time. It's not more fun because it takes longer. Most want to play in endgame content. That's where the new tech is, the new features are, and where most players are.

This was a really bad idea, from the start. If anything, they should have revamped the quests and taken out some of the "get 12 pig parts" pieces to scale back how many quests there were in a zone, instead of scaling things at all.

I hate when they change or remove quality of life changes. Those should be ironclad. As a designer, deal with it, work with it, move on.

*edited for clarity


This ;/
Man, I have to agree with OP.

Doesn't anybody remember what gaining a level used to mean? Doesn't anybody miss that?

I remember when gaining a level meant:

  • Reduced aggro radius
  • Higher accuracy vs enemies
  • Higher dodge/block/party vs enemies
  • Higher physical damage vs enemies, as higher level means you penetrate armor more effectively
  • Reduced crushing blows vs enemies that were previously out of range

  • When all enemies are scaled to your level, you don't really get to enjoy any of these. I don't know about you guys, but it's taken the idea of leveling an alt from 1-120 completely out of my list of desired things to do.

    I fill up that experience bar to achieve something, not to be the same 119 times in a row. Level scaling == level removal. Filling that bar up ought to be tied to a meaningful achievement, and it's currently not.

    Sure, now we can see all the story before we out-level a quest zone. But did we really have to destroy the primary means of power progression for that (ie. the whole point of leveling up)? Was it worth it?

    The only thing I'm pleased with is that there's upper bounds to different regions, so we can still eventually go back and see power progression. At least we've still got that.. but it really feels like we've taken a good few steps backwards when it comes to enjoying leveling up.

    I hope they think of something to please both crowds. Right now, for me, a toggle for level scaling would be a dream come true.
    yay some guy got pwned
    Moderator - Edited for language. Derogatory language targeted at other members of the community violates the community code of conduct.

    Ironically at least I know that somebody at blizz saw the feedback. I hope it gets the attention it deserves. thanks troll guy/girl!
    Are they powerful, Metro? If I'm replacing heirlooms with rare gear, that means heirlooms are roughly uncommon quality - that isn't powerful.


    you may replace them with gear for like a level or two at most. and during that you lose out on the increased experience.

    How about a reasonable balance between two extremes? We've gone from steamrolling to a ridiculous grind. I'd prefer a middle ground. Monster difficulty is fine, but the experience gains should be increased a bit. Even an additional 5k XP per quest would move mountains. As it stands, I'm not enjoying my favorite activity: rolling a new alt and picking a transmog.


    this is hilarious. if you think this is a ridiculous grind, you should just stay away from Vanilla wow period. it takes less then 3 days tops to hit 120 now.

    10/08/2018 04:24 AMPosted by Larger
    I'd say he's not. I get that they don't want us "one shorting" mobs, but that could have been fixed easily with a small change. Instead, in typical Blizz fashion they "fix" a small problem with a sledgehammer. Increasing mob hp AND nerfing heirlooms into the ground AND destroying dungeon xp AND increasing XP needed across the board AND scaling the world AND removing all xp potions AND killing RAF, was way beyond overkill. Nope I'd say he's not over reacting at all.

    [/quote]
    oh no i have to actually hit 5-6 buttons to kill stuff instead of 1. i'm sorry but it should take 5-6 buttons to kill a mob. and Heirlooms weren't nerfed that bad. the important part of heirlooms always was the experience increase and the fact that they scaled with you anyway.

    Dungeon exp wasn't destroyed either, it just didn't become the end all be all of leveling. Why should it have been so easy and so rewarding anyway? like casters didn't even have to cast before and a dungeon group would have entire dungeons done in 10 minutes. and the tank would be top damage done for all that. what makes you think thats even good design?

    i'll give you experience potions being nerfed. if people actually wanted to pay for those, they should have left them alone.
    10/12/2018 11:00 AMPosted by Matcauthon
    this is hilarious. if you think this is a ridiculous grind, you should just stay away from Vanilla wow period. it takes less then 3 days tops to hit 120 now.


    So by your standard logic it takes 72 hours to get to 120. You know how bad and ridiculously grindy that sounds? JUST to get to end game.... Also the majority of players do not want a vanilla ''feel'' leveling progression system in WoW. That isn't moving forward. One thing is steamrolling content. Another is having the availability of heirlooms and it feeling like they don't exist AND having a leveling curve that isn't encouraging to keep playing because leveling in WoW sucks now a days. That is a fact.

    10/12/2018 11:00 AMPosted by Matcauthon
    oh no i have to actually hit 5-6 buttons to kill stuff instead of 1. i'm sorry but it should take 5-6 buttons to kill a mob. and Heirlooms weren't nerfed that bad. the important part of heirlooms always was the experience increase and the fact that they scaled with you anyway.

    Dungeon exp wasn't destroyed either, it just didn't become the end all be all of leveling. Why should it have been so easy and so rewarding anyway? like casters didn't even have to cast before and a dungeon group would have entire dungeons done in 10 minutes. and the tank would be top damage done for all that. what makes you think thats even good design?

    i'll give you experience potions being nerfed. if people actually wanted to pay for those, they should have left them alone.


    Couldn't disagree more. If you have Heirlooms you should be able to steamroll the content. That was the entire point of buying the heirlooms and it worked. It felt like a payoff for buying them. That needs to change 100%. Heirlooms should feel like leveling is a breeze like it was before. People who bought heirlooms now got robbed of that gameplay to cater an idea of a new leveling progression system NOBODY wanted the way it is today. So again apart from being able to choose zones by leveling bracket (which is cool). Everything else about the leveling system to me is a failure and needs to be changed. It's more than clear this is what the majority wants. Make heirlooms op again.
    10/08/2018 05:25 AMPosted by Sabrila

    And heirlooms having the same power of blue rares is intended (they don't want OP chars to ruin the exeperience of someone that is new to the game)


    In a game that's what, 14 years old? There are way more returning players than 'new' so it's safe to stop designing content around those few new players and placing hindrances on those trying to reach max level to actually play the game.
    10/12/2018 02:35 PMPosted by Witewulf
    10/08/2018 05:25 AMPosted by Sabrila

    And heirlooms having the same power of blue rares is intended (they don't want OP chars to ruin the exeperience of someone that is new to the game)


    In a game that's what, 14 years old? There are way more returning players than 'new' so it's safe to stop designing content around those few new players and placing hindrances on those trying to reach max level to actually play the game.


    Yea the philosophy of making the game harder and grindier via expansion time is weird as hell to me. People who didn't play legion are now forced to grind allied races which to an extent is warranted and feels rewarding to unlock highbornes for example. But then if they like their culture heritage armor they are forced to level them from scratch. Now that to me is F'ed up. Now imagine everything I said but for a NEW player. It's not only overwhelming but it will drive them away from WoW because leveling is not how end game is at all.

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