Before you argue that Blizzard can't write...

Story Forum
...think how emotionally invested you are in the fates of Dot and Dolly.

Because I get legitimately choked up at the thought that they might be about to get Order 66ed.

Oh God...it's going to be Old Blanchy all over again, isn't it?
10/19/2018 10:22 AMPosted by Carmageddon
...think how emotionally invested you are in the fates of Dot and Dolly.
Emotional investment is the key:
10/18/2018 10:01 AMPosted by Cursewords
I have a feeling Blizzard wil have Sylvanas poison Dolly and Dot herself - and blame it on the Alliance.

Just for the last few holdouts like me who don't think she is quite evil yet.
I can be emotionally invested and still say they’re bad at writing.
Isn't the reason so many people keep saying there's bad writing is because we're all emotionally invested?

I mean, I'm sure there's people here who genuinely don't care and just like to complain and and trash on Blizzard, but I think the vast majority of us care so much that we point out bad writing in hopes of it getting improved. We care about this setting, so seeing bad writing is disheartening and we like to discuss how it might be better.
10/19/2018 10:34 AMPosted by Cannibal
Isn't the reason so many people keep saying there's bad writing is because we're all emotionally invested?

I mean, I'm sure there's people here who genuinely don't care and just like to complain and and trash on Blizzard, but I think the vast majority of us care so much that we point out bad writing in hopes of it getting improved. We care about this setting, so seeing bad writing is disheartening and we like to discuss how it might be better.


To add to that, some players on both sides are having...an unhealthy amount of enjoyment when the writing portrays actions either at faction or individual level as being out of character or against player agency.

Look at how teamSaurfang and team Sylvanas have been treating each other... and that’s within the Horde, never mind the horde versus Alliance stuff.
I was also emotionally invested in starwars, yet I can admit the new trilogy is garbage- your point is?
10/19/2018 10:46 AMPosted by Gharion
I was also emotionally invested in starwars, yet I can admit the new trilogy is garbage- your point is?
Some people don't know what they're talking about? (New SW trilogy is awesome btw) :D
...think how emotionally invested you are in the fates of Dot and Dolly.

Who the fuc is Dot and Dolly?

You mean Dolly and Dot?
The writing in their cinematics has been great also. Where they have failed has been in the story-arc for the game. They have taken a complex character and reduced her to a villain and made her much more one-dimensional. They also have demoralized many Horde players and made them feel like they can't be the heroes.
10/19/2018 10:56 AMPosted by Píppen
10/19/2018 10:46 AMPosted by Gharion
I was also emotionally invested in starwars, yet I can admit the new trilogy is garbage- your point is?
Some people don't know what they're talking about? (New SW trilogy is awesome btw) :D


>(New SW trilogy is awesome btw)

pleb = filtered
I have never met either of them and, thus, have no investment.

Therefore, Blizzard cant write.
Establishment of a character is one thing, the overall story is something else. Blizzard is good at establishing characters. What they lack and fail at, is putting these characters in the story and keeping both consistent.

The main issue for this is that there isn’t one person writing or directing the story and if they are, they aren’t doing a good job.

If you take Tyrande, for instance, as she is now and in the hands of one writer, you can sculpt and make a good story in a world and narrative that is perfect for her.

However, at Blizzard you have teams of writers that have different interpretations of things. This is where lack of direction is making the story suffer. Leadership over a multifaceted department dedicated to telling story needs to be, and avoid, all semblance of bias. They need to edit and keep all these different teams and their stories consistent with the overall narrative and as well as keep the overall narrative consistent too.

The practice of telling one story to the Horde and a different version to the Alliance without a point of reference for the actual story needs to stop. Not only to prevent your audience from growing tired of senseless infighting for the sake of fighting and will eventually leave as they grow tired of blatant instigation of tensions, (Walking Dead for example) but for future narrative to build upon as well. For that, you need a truthful version, not speculation.

Staying consistent and reiterating lore is important. If you don’t like something or how it was presented back then, change it in a way that incorporates the narrative and fulfills the story, such as Blood Elves and the Sunwell. Not just ignore it and never talk about it, such as the night elves suddenly being turned and becoming die hard Forsaken zealots.

“We want the fans to interpret the story...” No! Bad! As people gather in masses they get stupid. This practice is not only irresponsible but it’s lazy and an excuse to create subpar content. If you want someone to go from A to B, you give them directions. You don’t tell them about A and B then let them decide for themselves how the two connect! Google maps doesn’t tell me about the restaurant, it directs me to it! The narrative is the map. The reader/players are the drivers.

I am greatly disappointed in the quality of the story that has come out. Mostly because these writers KNOW better!
10/19/2018 10:39 AMPosted by Saiphas
Look at how teamSaurfang and team Sylvanas have been treating each other... and that’s within the Horde, never mind the horde versus Alliance stuff.


I think people just go a liiiittle too hard on the RP in here and genuinely get wrapped up in their own moral whatevers. I mean, I've seen posts written as if from the perspective of an actual member of [insert faction here] accusing [other faction] of [whatever whatever atrocity etc] as if the players of the faction they're yelling at are personally responsible.

Guys. Blizzard is the one responsible. We need to stop treating WoW characters like they have any agency at all, because they don't. Here's a popular example: Sylvanas.

Many Sylvanas-haters frame much of their arguments around the fact that she's always been evil, and therefore her current direction (that being exactly perpendicular to the ground, plummeting at ten thousand miles per hour into a giant tar pit carved in the shape of Ion's face) is the only logical conclusion for her character, and anyone who wants Sylvanas to actually succeed and grow is a dirty evil idiot who just likes her because she's their gray elf necro waifu.

Here's the problem with that though, none of us have any agency. We, as players, cannot pick and choose what happens in the story, and we never have. We sit down in our high chairs, smack our fists against the little plastic table, and then papa Blizz pinches our nose and shoves an industrial funnel down our throats to begin dumping whatever they know we want in there. This is exactly the same with characters. They are not real people, they are plot devices, and plot devices can and should be used to their most effective end. In an expansion about faction pride, our Warchief going full evil no holds barred Starfox only screw honor let's prove those alliance right lul is absolutely wrecking the Horde's players in such a way that the Horde feels almost entirely unsalvageable. But all that is for a separate discussion, just bear in mind that, from a writing standpoint, there is very little motivation for a huge swath of Horde players to keep fighting for Sylvanas, and while this works in an independent story where the audience is not an acting party, in the context of an RPG this is...not an effective use for her, and makes the players feel helpless.

I've been playing tabletop RPGs since I was 7 years old. Making the players feel helpless for months on end is how really crappy campaigns die. WoW is not Game of Thrones, WoW is WWE. Make it flashy, make it fun, pump the audience up. I don't care about moral quandaries beyond what it takes to make the Horde feel like the Punisher and the Alliance feel like Captain America. Both sides doing shady and heroic stuff, such that their differences are in their principles, not their body counts and war crimes tallies.

TL;DR It doesn't matter if Blizz is shoving this story down our throats while wearing a Sylvanas mask or an Anduin mask or WHOEVER CHARACTER. We should all keep in mind that it's not these characters themselves. It's Blizz. Writers made these decisions, and I don't think fans of certain factions or certain characters should have to suffer because somebody in the big house decided they should.
This is about the same argument as Blizzard questioning how Azerite is a bad system if so many players are freaking out because its taking them double the effort to actually sim the gear they get.

Needing to put in more effort to do something you used to do easily before does not a good system make. just like pulling at our nostalgia for the days when the writing was good doesnt make the current writing good.
10/19/2018 10:56 AMPosted by Píppen
10/19/2018 10:46 AMPosted by Gharion
I was also emotionally invested in starwars, yet I can admit the new trilogy is garbage- your point is?
Some people don't know what they're talking about? (New SW trilogy is awesome btw) :D
We lost too much good in the EU for me to enjoy any of the new movies, especially when they're borrowing so many aspects and executing them worse.
I liked the cute little girl's song about them, but I don't have any real connection to her off-brand camels.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYvIqO6Z8KA
Indeed that's the best way to write a story.
Make characters that everyone loves.
Then kill them.
Worked for game of thrones
10/19/2018 01:16 PMPosted by Azutaaro
Indeed that's the best way to write a story.
Make characters that everyone loves.
Then kill them.
Worked for game of thrones


More like The Walking Dead.

Game of Thrones was at least competently written where people paid the price of their own actions and faced the consequences of not reading the room properly, which is why I love the series.
I think Carm's point is that Blizzard writers do have the capacity to write well, so they have no excuse for doing such a terrible job with the faction story.

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