Thank you for ruining another Horde leader blizzard(spoilers)

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I was on the ptr tonight and messed around with some of the questlines available. Vol'jin's spirit is back again in 8.1 and the *big reveal* is that it wasn't the loa who whispered in his ear to make Sylvanas Warchief but a different, darker, more powerful entity. Big surprise there. That's not what annoys me though. What really galls me is Vol'jin's seeming apathy towards all this. Sure, he's feverishly seeking out answers across Azeroth but he's using this as an excuse to not take any responsibility for making Sylvanas Warchief.

He doesn't commit on Sylvanas's actions as Warchief at all beyond a throwaway line referencing her saving the Horde at the Broken shore. He doesn't say "Oh crap, I made a mistake", nor does he explicitly make any mention of opposing or standing up to her. Sure, we can infer that Vol'jin is now probably in the "Sylvanas shouldn't be Warchief camp" with Baine and Saurfail, or at least the "Sylvanas should be reined in camp", but he never directly makes any mention to oppose or at least confront her. Baine says: "Sylvanas led us to victory in the war against the Legion.But since then... she has done much to strain the honor that binds the Horde together." And Vol'jin most likely needs no clarification as to what he means, but he never comments on it at all, which is just stupid.

This also makes things more confusing in regards to where he stands. His position on Sylvanas is for now, muddled and unclear. No doubt he feels indebted to her for trying to save his life, but he doesn't take a side. I feel like Sylvanas should have been the first person Vol'jin should have gone to see after his spirit returned. She at least deserves to know that some dark entity is behind this and not a benevolent loa. Whether or not she cares or decides to do anything about it is a different matter and irrelevant. I understand his need for answers, but "I was duped while at death's door" is not a valid excuse, and the Horde shouldn't take that lying down. He needs to take responsibility because for now there is no sign that Vol'jin was coerced or mind-controlled into making Sylvanas Warchief, he was duped into doing so. There's a difference.

Now, I want to be clear, I'm not putting all of the blame on Vol'jin, Obviously Sylvanas's actions as Warchief are hers and hers alone and it doesn't absolve her, but Vol'jin put her in that position and now he's making excuses and giving noncommittal responses. It comes off as extremely cowardly and shows him in a poor light. I believe Rorrand made a similar thread a while back voicing similar concerns, and I have to agree: "Vol'jin, you have FAILED this Horde!"

Now, this thread might surprise a lot of you considering I've never shied away from my pro-Sylvanas views, but a large part of that stemmed from honoring Vol'jin's wishes, and to see him backtrack and teeter-totter like an indecisive child is a huge blow to me. Don't get me wrong, I'm still in her corner, but it's just frustrating. I know a lot of you will tell me to wait and be patient because Vol'jin's still searching for answers, but I think we've waited enough. Enough of this terrible writing that makes all of our leaders look like colossal morons. I'm reminded vividly of Thrall's dogmatically annoying refusal to take responsibility for making Garrosh Warchief, and we all know where that road led. The best we got from him was "the people wanted a war hero, my bad".

I want Vol'jin to do something, to say something, to make it clear where he stands. I would rather he openly oppose Sylvanas instead of just standing on the sidelines saying "it wasn't my fault". Support her. Oppose her. OWN THIS MESS. I've lost a lot of respect for Vol'jin. Dying doesn't let you off the hook considering you're getting a huge power upgrade and are most likely going to become a loa. Baine "Taurajo was a legitimate military target" Bloodhoof is showing a bigger backbone than you right now. Baine. Baine. The same guy who mailed Anduin a piece of his horn. Fix this.

I'm getting really tired of the Horde constantly making excuses for everything we do. The writing is so bad they could Kerrigan or Garrosh Sylvanas and it wouldn't get any worse.

Tldr for those who don't like reading long rants by fanatical Sylvanas supporting ASPD mental cases :

1. Vol'jin is acting like a child and needs to git gud
2. Sylvanas is still responsible for her actions
3. I still support her, I'm just disappointed
4. We shouldn't have to "wait and see", as it's beside the point by now
5. Vol'jin being dead doesn't let him off the hook

Thanks for listening.
He was dying. Obviously not at the peak of his power. I think the duping is excusable, especially if he was used to hearing spirit advice and trusting it.

As for accepting Sylvanas as Warchief, that's not Vol'jin's fault but that of the other leaders who said, "Okay, sure." But maybe they were trying to honor Vol'jin's sacrifice by honoring his wishes. Maybe they also recalled that the spirit advice he got was usually solid.

As for not caring now, who says he doesn't? But you know what? HE'S DEAD. It's not his job anymore. He has to figure out what is up with his own spirit, who he owes what to for his current state and, if duped, who did so and why. When he knows that, he'll have some real wisdom to impart to the living.

I don't think he's ruined at all. He's just having to learn the rules of his new state first, before he can figure out what to do and how. Sylvanas isn't his immediate problem. She's ours.
Be nice to have a quest to assist Vol'jin's spirit. Or bring him back to life.(1) Hades, just let me link up the Loa, and whatever malevolent force "tricked" (2) him into choosing Sylvanus.

A resurrected Vol'in would make for an interesting spilt in the Horde.

(1) Worst on-screen death in WoW cinematic history

(2) "Loa's meet N'zoth. N'zoth, Loa's. I'm sure you two have lots to talk about."
10/29/2018 04:04 AMPosted by Tymberlea
As for accepting Sylvanas as Warchief, that's not Vol'jin's fault but that of the other leaders who said, "Okay, sure." But maybe they were trying to honor Vol'jin's sacrifice by honoring his wishes. Maybe they also recalled that the spirit advice he got was usually solid.


I can't believe Lothre'man, who once threatened to wax Sylvanus if she raised any PONCY Blood Elves into her army, Lorthre'mar who once considered switching sides, ('Come to the Alliance, our beer is better'), that some 10 seconds after Vol'jin was cremated didn't turn to that crazy waifu and say, "Look, so about you being Warchief….."

Even if the PONCY Blood Elves didn't switch sides, just go neutral.
My take away from this read is that we are in for yet another Horde civil war or at the very least yet another change in war chiefs.

It's starting to suck to be horde.
10/29/2018 04:19 AMPosted by Yasudra
My take away from this read is that we are in for yet another Horde civil war or at the very least yet another change in war chiefs.

It's starting to suck to be horde.


Yeah, must suck to have the entire storyline centered around your faction. Must suck to have even your losses really be victories.
10/29/2018 04:04 AMPosted by Tymberlea
He was dying. Obviously not at the peak of his power. I think the duping is excusable, especially if he was used to hearing spirit advice and trusting it.

As for accepting Sylvanas as Warchief, that's not Vol'jin's fault but that of the other leaders who said, "Okay, sure." But maybe they were trying to honor Vol'jin's sacrifice by honoring his wishes. Maybe they also recalled that the spirit advice he got was usually solid.

As for not caring now, who says he doesn't? But you know what? HE'S DEAD. It's not his job anymore. He has to figure out what is up with his own spirit, who he owes what to for his current state and, if duped, who did so and why. When he knows that, he'll have some real wisdom to impart to the living.

I don't think he's ruined at all. He's just having to learn the rules of his new state first, before he can figure out what to do and how. Sylvanas isn't his immediate problem. She's ours.


I feel like you missed the point of my OP entirely. The duping aside, Vol'jin needs to take responsibility for his part in putting Sylvanas up as Warchief, He needs to be held accountable, dead or not. The duping and him being on the verge of death isn't the issue here, it's his blind refusal to comment on the present state of the Horde at all. It's troubling.

A resurrected Vol'in would make for an interesting spilt in the Horde.


A two-sided civil war is bad enough but putting up a third contender only makes things worse. I'm not interested in seeing a fragmented and weakened Horde. Been there, done that.
10/29/2018 04:22 AMPosted by Tyriellais
10/29/2018 04:19 AMPosted by Yasudra
My take away from this read is that we are in for yet another Horde civil war or at the very least yet another change in war chiefs.

It's starting to suck to be horde.


Yeah, must suck to have the entire storyline centered around your faction. Must suck to have even your losses really be victories.

"Is that what we're going to do today, fight?"
10/29/2018 03:55 AMPosted by Momimfotm
and the *big reveal* is that it wasn't the loa who whispered in his ear to make Sylvanas Warchief but a different, darker, more powerful entity.


Literally no 1 saw this coming
10/29/2018 04:22 AMPosted by Tyriellais
10/29/2018 04:19 AMPosted by Yasudra
My take away from this read is that we are in for yet another Horde civil war or at the very least yet another change in war chiefs.

It's starting to suck to be horde.


Yeah, must suck to have the entire storyline centered around your faction. Must suck to have even your losses really be victories.


Not really interested in seeing this turn into an Alliance whining thread, so let's stay on topic please.
10/29/2018 04:22 AMPosted by Tyriellais
10/29/2018 04:19 AMPosted by Yasudra
My take away from this read is that we are in for yet another Horde civil war or at the very least yet another change in war chiefs.

It's starting to suck to be horde.


Yeah, must suck to have the entire storyline centered around your faction. Must suck to have even your losses really be victories.


Alliance is the kid version of WoW.
Im amazed you are even suprised at this point. Baine and Saurfail are already worse rats then Galiwix so no suprise there. I mean just look at them !@#$ talking other races at the Legion victory meal. Then Voljin joining that clique is no suprise. Its like a highschool drama. The OG crew vs the new kids on the block.

The Forsaken never fitted in and the Blood Elves came and befriended the Forsaken and both became the popular kids, then the Goblins came and obviously thought we were the coolest so they share profit schemes with us. Then the OG crew suddenly saw potential in us and now want to destroy us from the inside because they are the outsiders.
The storytelling is pretty pathetic these days, but it sounds like your main problems are based around your own investment to the story Momimfotm, and them not spelling it out enough. That's not necessarily a bad thing, although it's normally good when someone's weaving an epic narrative.

I think Sylvanas is a terrible character and very poorly written, and totally at odds with everything that the Horde stands for, but I'm not that heavily invested in the storyline.
10/29/2018 04:31 AMPosted by Kinnslayerr
I think Sylvanas is a terrible character and very poorly written, and totally at odds with everything that the Horde stands for, but I'm not that heavily invested in the storyline.


Everything the Horde used to stand for.

Blood Elves changed that.

Now she's everything the Horde currently stands for: Edginess and boobs.
10/29/2018 04:26 AMPosted by Metrics
10/29/2018 03:55 AMPosted by Momimfotm
and the *big reveal* is that it wasn't the loa who whispered in his ear to make Sylvanas Warchief but a different, darker, more powerful entity.


Literally no 1 saw this coming


This is my surprised face.
10/29/2018 04:26 AMPosted by Metrics
10/29/2018 03:55 AMPosted by Momimfotm
and the *big reveal* is that it wasn't the loa who whispered in his ear to make Sylvanas Warchief but a different, darker, more powerful entity.


Literally no 1 saw this coming


Obviously, but this is peripheral to my thread.

Everything the Horde used to stand for.

Blood Elves changed that.

Now she's everything the Horde currently stands for: Edginess and boobs.


I can clearly see you're just baiting and have no interest in discussing my OP, but I'll take the bait. It always amuses me to see Alliance players/mains go on and on about what the Horde means to them while decrying and bemoaning blood elves joining it. Stop acting like your opinion means anything to those of us who do play Horde. It doesn't. Blood elves have sacrificed a lot for the Horde. We've had an active presence in every theater of war since joining and have only strengthened the Horde.

Get over yourself.
If you don't want your faction leaders ruined (as much) then the Alliance is waiting on you.
They figured they couldn't kick the orcs in the nads anymore so now it's the forsaken's turn. The story is bad. I don't do quests any more than I have to and when I do I don't read them. A stupid plot I can ignore but dumb overarching changes to the world just make me not want to log in. BfA has somehow passed DRAENOR IS FREE and beyond 8.1 it looks even worse. I hope the story team feels ashamed for the mess they've made because it really is an accomplishment to piss everyone off simultaneously. This horrible abomination of a story is what you destroyed two faction capitals and killed multiple racial leaders over? Garrosh was such a huge mistake the lore has never recovered. I suppose that is his true revenge.
He's dead so like... Why would he say sorry? What after they going to do about it? Ghost bust him for it?

Do you think you'd give a crap if you were dead? I mean it's pretty well known that death changes you ways that are... Let's just say: who is to assume that remorse is something he can even still feel?
10/29/2018 03:55 AMPosted by Momimfotm
Now, I want to be clear, I'm not putting all of the blame on Vol'jin, Obviously Sylvanas's actions as Warchief are hers and hers alone and it doesn't absolve her, but Vol'jin put her in that position and now he's making excuses and giving noncommittal responses. It comes off as extremely cowardly and shows him in a poor light. I believe Rorrand made a similar thread a while back voicing similar concerns, and I have to agree: "Vol'jin, you have FAILED this Horde!"


Are you surprised? Thrall did the same thing to Garrosh: he never admitted that putting Garrosh in power was a mistake until the very end and, even then, he just shrugged it off with a 'though luck, sucks to be you, here your new job as a lighting rod in Nagrand'.

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