WW monk nerf

Tides of Vengeance PTR General Discussion
well atleast in pvp, i dont have my fist of fury binded at all, since it does 0 dmg
11/01/2018 12:56 PMPosted by Rezuz
well atleast in pvp, i dont have my fist of fury binded at all, since it does 0 dmg


It at least used to stun.
11/01/2018 11:23 AMPosted by Lore
10/31/2018 03:34 PMPosted by Graille
Most of the classes that are capable of strong burst AOE saw similar nerfs in the latest patch notes. So it's not so much a WW nerf as it is a nerf to AOE Burst DPS in general. WW actually didn't get it nearly as bad as a lot of other classes did.

We've actually reverted several of these changes (and similar ones for Frost Death Knight, Havoc Demon Hunter, and Arms Warrior) in the next PTR update. Those specs should be among the best at burst AOE, but we believe they're currently ahead of everyone else by a little too much. We want to take a little more time to collect data before making changes along those lines, though.


Supposed to be among the best aoe dps. OKay, then why do Havoc, Arms, Frost, Rogues etc also do top tier ST DPS? Look at Ret, they are lower middle of the pack on ST bosses at best, and absolutely useless bottom of the list on AoE/cleave fights. Ret is not above middle of the pack in a single fight, even ST fights, and bottom 3 on anything with cleave/aoe. It gets beat in ST by these specs you listed (and more) that do literally 1.5-2x more AoE/Cleave (look at Zul logs) than Ret. Also has terrible mobility and it's mediocre utility doesn't even match a spec like Havoc anymore (5% raid magic damage, purge, insta cast imprison, aoe stun and Darkness). So what is Ret's strength? Nothing, gets beats handedly in ST by more than half the specs and gets absolutely stomped in cleave/AoE and these minor 10% changes won't change that.

Also, literally 50% of Rets ST damage is in TV, which they can't use at all in AoE because you figured it was a good idea to make Rets only baseline AoE a holy power finisher that hits like a wet noodle. So to do crappy AoE, Ret has to sacrifice 50% of its ST, while most these specs sacrifice little or none because they have to hit 1 extra button once in a while at most to activate full AoE while doing full ST (especially Havoc, doing the same rotation ST and AoE....). I wonder which spec is going to be considered more useful huh?

The balance in this game is just completley whack. You design some specs with huge glaring weaknesses (Ret terrible mobility, no 2 target cleave, terrible AoE that sacrifices ST dmg), that don't even top the charts in their alleged "strengths". Meanwhile a spec like Havoc has no weakness, amazing aoe, amazing ST, amazing mobility, #1 in self healing amongst DPS and great utility, top 5 on literally every single fight ST and AoE. This design is even more egregious when you consider mythic+, which has more trash than ever. So specs who are for some reason purposely designed to be weak at AoE are terrible and unwanted in one of the biggest PvE end game activities.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/zone/statistics/19
https://raider.io/mythic-plus/season-bfa-1/all/world/leaderboards-strict#role=dps:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=15:maxMythicLevel=99
11/01/2018 11:23 AMPosted by Lore
We've actually reverted several of these changes (and similar ones for Frost Death Knight, Havoc Demon Hunter, and Arms Warrior) in the next PTR update. Those specs should be among the best at burst AOE, but we believe they're currently ahead of everyone else by a little too much. We want to take a little more time to collect data before making changes along those lines, though.
So can you actually BUFF windwalkers by a large amount at least for this huge lose of AoE damage and yes i said BUFF not twerk here and twerk there to make up for this BUFF.

BUFF Rising sun kick BUFF blackout kick BUFF tiger palm like why are these abilities hitting like for nothing? Especially in PvP???? why is our utility and defensive and also our healing so weak and easily replaceable?? didn't we use to be hybrids?? Windwalkers literally have no healing and yet in their best balanced days they had a lot of healing and a good amount of utility and defensive (fof stun ftw) think about this a second blizzard.

Can you please finally explain why Windwalker has to be in this trash state since BFA release? you did acknowledge every class now which were in a bad state, yet if it's about Windwalker no communication is coming from your side i hope you guys realized that Windwalker is actually bad and the worst specc in PvP and i am serious about this one there is no other specc (beside of tanks being so bad in PvP) and even Prot pally has more use than Windwalkers currently in Arenas.

Even in PvE Windwalkers are big crap specc in M+ you won't get taken because you literally don't offer anything why would you take a WW if you can take DH for damage? why a WW if you can take a Rogue for utility mass stealth and better damage? WW has nothing to go for. And stats are clearly speaking for this.

Touch of Karma and Touch of death brought in line is in your sights nerfing them to uselessness? CAN you consider a REWORK? and Please a Rework with FoF stun baked in.

Its almost embarassing how you did prune and destroy this once best and most fun specc in the whole World of Warcraft History (do you guys remember 5.4.8 Blizzard?) go in this direction and you will also have much much much more Monk Players.
I bet with my WoW Account that's the reasoning for this big stinky finger to Monks because they are the least populated Class in WoW. Why wouldn't you at least make them attractive to players instead of nerfing them to a crap state where nobody would ever think of picking up a windwalker?
11/01/2018 12:29 PMPosted by Tru
Can we just get BfA over with now please
11/01/2018 11:58 AMPosted by Ojoverde
Nerf frost mages and DHs AoE please!


Agreed...this coming from someone who switched to DH.

HOWEVER

You NEED to also buff the other abilities because these specs rely too heavily on that burst AoE to do middle-of-the-pack to bottom tier ST damage. The 15% nerf to Eyebeam would have really, really hurt ST. Way too heavy handed. They finally realized that when they reverted/adjusted the nerfs.

While we're at it, Blizz should seriously rethink this whole niche thing with specs. There are far too many classes/specs in this game to properly balance them all so that they can be competitive in each type of content while retaining niche functionality. It's not realistic. No one should be punished and left out of content because they enjoy something that isn't part of the meta for the type of content they enjoy.
complaining about this classes maybe nerf MM Hunters more... oh wait you can't nerf them more because they are dead... sad true not FD this time
WW was great in Legion. Why did y’all screw things up this badly? Was it not obvious that pruning the artifact wasn’t a simple change, and would require more class development to fix things?

Next time, please test more and follow up on feedback from players during Beta.
Post is such bull!@#$. "We believe they're currently ahead of everyone else by a little too much." Is that why you're giving havoc double eye beam back that also now resets blade dance? I mean DH loses nothing and FOF is already garbage as it is. Nerfing FOF already nerfs our pathetic single target that's already getting gutted because you're nerfing ToD and ToK.

How about you start by reverting the hard cap you decided to place on FOF for literally no reason in prepatch and go from there?.
11/01/2018 11:23 AMPosted by Lore
10/31/2018 03:34 PMPosted by Graille
Most of the classes that are capable of strong burst AOE saw similar nerfs in the latest patch notes. So it's not so much a WW nerf as it is a nerf to AOE Burst DPS in general. WW actually didn't get it nearly as bad as a lot of other classes did.

We've actually reverted several of these changes (and similar ones for Frost Death Knight, Havoc Demon Hunter, and Arms Warrior) in the next PTR update. Those specs should be among the best at burst AOE, but we believe they're currently ahead of everyone else by a little too much. We want to take a little more time to collect data before making changes along those lines, though.


Where are all the promises fixes for Elemental. Nothing of real substance has been done for them. Thenine things that was decent (Surge) you changed and made meh. I don’t want to be forced to used the OP Ice fury crap.
11/01/2018 11:54 AMPosted by Liljessie
11/01/2018 11:23 AMPosted by Lore
...
We've actually reverted several of these changes (and similar ones for Frost Death Knight, Havoc Demon Hunter, and Arms Warrior) in the next PTR update. Those specs should be among the best at burst AOE, but we believe they're currently ahead of everyone else by a little too much. We want to take a little more time to collect data before making changes along those lines, though.


Here is an idea. Buff the under performing classes instead of nerfing the ones people enjoy because they perform well. This mindset to always nerf as much as possible is really killing the game. No it's not just this one change it's culmination of everything.

For example the racials. Everyone complains alliance racials are weak. What do you guys do? Nerf horde racials to be in line with the ones people don't like. Brilliant idea. Try buffing more often. Just a thought. People aren't fond of getting weaker.

And this is coming from someone unaffected by any of the mentioned changes.

So if a boss is designed to be killed with people doing 14k dps and 11 classes do 13.75 and 2 classes do 16k lets buff them all and make all content irrelevant..

Definitely the mindset of casuals who want to ruin the game and just see big numbers.. Tuning has to happen both ways.. you would be just as pissed if you were doing 16k and blizz just decided to buff everyone else to 17k as you are getting nerfed. Only difference is one doesn't ruin the design of bosses/healthpools/ect in the game.
Correction: the least represented spec/class on pvp is DK
They are the true garbage
11/01/2018 11:23 AMPosted by Lore
We've actually reverted several of these changes (and similar ones for Frost Death Knight, Havoc Demon Hunter, and Arms Warrior) in the next PTR update. Those specs should be among the best at burst AOE, but we believe they're currently ahead of everyone else by a little too much. We want to take a little more time to collect data before making changes along those lines, though.


Hey, so, if y'all do come back around to these nerfs later on, can you make sure that the Eye Beam nerf is implemented as a nerf just to secondary targets? It's kinda an important part of our single target rotation, and that 15% nerf to it was adding up to around a 1.25-1.5% nerf to our single-target. And frankly, we're pretty middle-of-the-pack on a straight single-target fight (few as they are).

If it ends up being the same 15% nerf, bumping the damage bonus on the primary target to 75% would offset it for single target. 0.85 * 1.75 = 1.4875, nearly equal with the existing 50% bonus on the primary target.
10/31/2018 03:02 PMPosted by Holim
I'm not sure the FoF nerf is warrented. Especially after the ToD nerf and karma nerf. Along with MM hunters its the least represented spec in pvp right now.

Yet you didn't touch assassination rogues? So Holinka comes back and manages to even fug things up worse. LOL trash game


If you having trouble killing a Assasination rogue as survival in 2s then you need to reroll.
11/01/2018 11:31 AMPosted by Wewlad
11/01/2018 11:23 AMPosted by Lore
...
We've actually reverted several of these changes (and similar ones for Frost Death Knight, Havoc Demon Hunter, and Arms Warrior) in the next PTR update. Those specs should be among the best at burst AOE, but we believe they're currently ahead of everyone else by a little too much. We want to take a little more time to collect data before making changes along those lines, though.

Is ele going to get any more love from the PTR? even with the changes elemental still feels clunky.
Lore please tell me unholy is getting more single target damage and armor in PvE/PvP
The last part of OP was uncalled for, but I do agree that it feels like every xpac seems to have WW starting from a good/godly place then getting only nerfs from then on.

Maybe that's to fit the class fantasy of what would actually happen when you try punching a failed old god xD
10/31/2018 03:34 PMPosted by Graille
Most of the classes that are capable of strong burst AOE


Lol which ones? DH and couple others are the only ones capable of doing this anymore. This game doesn't favor any sustainable dmg classes anymore and in many cases these kind of classes do less overall dmg. This is so hilarious.

11/01/2018 11:54 AMPosted by Liljessie
Here is an idea. Buff the under performing classes instead of nerfing the ones people enjoy because they perform well. This mindset to always nerf as much as possible is really killing the game.


Well Legion slogan was reroll so why not to keep it up and nerf random classes for giggles. Especially when someone get nerfed, they nerf it for good.

11/01/2018 11:54 AMPosted by Liljessie
For example the racials. Everyone complains alliance racials are weak. What do you guys do? Nerf horde racials to be in line with the ones people don't like. Brilliant idea. Try buffing more often. Just a thought. People aren't fond of getting weaker.


Lol Fireblood is still min 2x stronger than Bloodfury and duration difference doesn't matter.

And tbh Alliance Racials wouldn't be that "bad" if they would get rid of Racial sharing Trinket CD and buffed some of the passive Racials. But what can do when we live age of "you think you need more abilities, but you don't"

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