Guys calm down! (No Sharding thread)

Classic Discussion
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Sharding even just for the first day in starting zones only would be bad, a simple queue would be better. If sharding goes even a little beyond that it would be a deal breaker.

There are other more important things that need to be fixed though such as melee range and item stats being adjusted. Using 1.12 as the baseline is fine though you won't get nearly the same experience since many items in 1.12 were rebalanced with much better stats. Releasing content on its original timeline or something similar is only the first step, the gear needs to match it or it will be far too easy.

Honestly with the amount of work needed to get an authentic classic experience I seriously doubt it will be done summer 2019, and I'm really worried they will push it out anyway as a flawed product with the way this company has been heading in recent years.
So ..

What happens when other high-density situations arise, that are not just "at launch" like the perpetual TM-SS ping pong match? Are we going to get a "well, we felt it was better if there were N of these battles going on"?

You say only one Kazzak per server, so what are you going to do when more players *from both sides* show up in the same area of the same zone for a Kazzak fight than were in the starter zone you justified sharding? Are we going to get a "well, we felt it was better to forcibly evict-by-teleport all you 'excess people'"?

See, it isn't easy to limit this to just starter zones, as there are already plenty of similar slippery slopes that will happen.

The whole point of front-loading via login queues as the primary gatekeeping mechanism, is so everyone in on level ground … when you make it past the queue, you know everything in the game world will be experienced equally along with everyone else now logged in, regardless of which zone you are in or what/why you are there. Not some mish-mash of rules that will be used in scattered situations all over Azeroth.
Sharding should be the last resort. At the moment I am not sure even if it is like third resort even. :D

More realistic would be to wait in queue. I could even start playing after a week of release. Just to make sure leveling experience is fine for me.

P.S. 3k cap should be enforced!
No sharding in classic please
11/02/2018 03:39 PMPosted by Lore
As you've noticed, the Classic Demo does have realm sharding. This is to let as many people as possible experience it without technical issues such as server capacity or spawn density getting in the way.

Longer term, we know how crucial it is to the Classic experience for you to see your friends when you walk into Stormwind or when you’re helping them on a quest you’ve already completed. And there should only ever be one Kazzak on a realm, no matter how many people are waiting for him to spawn.

We’re still looking at how we can best deliver an authentic Classic experience at launch, and in the weeks and months that follow - both in terms of gameplay and community. You won’t see phasing (which is tied to specific quests that don't exist in Classic) or cross-realm zones (which combine multiple realms together) in Classic. However, realm sharding is one of the best tools we have to keep realms stable when hundreds of players are swarming the same initial few zones and killing the same few mobs (like they will be at the launch of Classic). To that end, we do believe that some form of sharding may be helpful, especially in those early days. But we recognize that a cohesive world is critical to WoW Classic and are committed to bringing that to you.


People want the mayhem that was to log in on launch day.

How do you not understand that the classic community wants all that is vanilla, both good and bad.
11/04/2018 01:09 AMPosted by Ukkos
The whole point of front-loading via login queues as the primary gatekeeping mechanism, is so everyone in on level ground … when you make it past the queue, you know everything in the game world will be experienced equally along with everyone else now logged in, regardless of which zone you are in or what/why you are there. Not some mish-mash of rules that will be used in scattered situations all over Azeroth


I remember for WoD there were queues on my Oceanic servers to get into the play on the first day and it was hideous. You had to be sitting there waiting for extended periods of time to get in, and then once you were in you couldn't log out because you'd hit the queue again. So gawd help you if you had to leave the house for any reason.

People would do things like put their character running up against a wall and then go do what they had to, to keep the character logged in. The queue times were extensive for that first week.

I frankly cannot see a problem with sharding for the opening week or so of Classic if it enables everyone equally to get into and enjoy the game. They even said that at last year's Blizzcon; that they were determined to provide a classic experience - if not the launch experience. Said it right there and then, not like they've sprung it on us.

Frankly, I think a lot of people are being blinded by technological nostalgia. It's not the clunky laggy performance I want to experience, its the game itself. I don't need queues to make me feel at home.
11/04/2018 01:59 AMPosted by Wetrobrute
11/02/2018 03:39 PMPosted by Lore
As you've noticed, the Classic Demo does have realm sharding. This is to let as many people as possible experience it without technical issues such as server capacity or spawn density getting in the way.

Longer term, we know how crucial it is to the Classic experience for you to see your friends when you walk into Stormwind or when you’re helping them on a quest you’ve already completed. And there should only ever be one Kazzak on a realm, no matter how many people are waiting for him to spawn.

We’re still looking at how we can best deliver an authentic Classic experience at launch, and in the weeks and months that follow - both in terms of gameplay and community. You won’t see phasing (which is tied to specific quests that don't exist in Classic) or cross-realm zones (which combine multiple realms together) in Classic. However, realm sharding is one of the best tools we have to keep realms stable when hundreds of players are swarming the same initial few zones and killing the same few mobs (like they will be at the launch of Classic). To that end, we do believe that some form of sharding may be helpful, especially in those early days. But we recognize that a cohesive world is critical to WoW Classic and are committed to bringing that to you.


People want the mayhem that was to log in on launch day.

How do you not understand that the classic community wants all that is vanilla, both good and bad.


Not everyone wants that mayheim, been there done that, would much rather be able to play and play on a stable server than not being able to play at all. Granted I play very late at night, so the odds that this will be an issue is minimal, but nothing will kill this thing faster than to have a bunch of people not being able to play. All you need to do is look at the launch of D3 for an example.
I do not know if anyone else has mentioned this, but another problem with sharding "only" in the starting zone is that we will have a massive amount of players reaching level 10-12 at the same time, then to proceed to Westfall/The Barrens.

Then those areas will be just as packed as the starting zone, if not even more since Taurens also enter The Barrens... and people tend to want to go and quest in The Barrens as undead as well.

So sharding in the starting zone is just going to push the problem it tries to solve forward, and that will escalate the problem even more.
All right, so after listening to what Ion had to say at the WoW Q&A last night, I've decided to be cautiously optimistic. But at the same time, I've played this game long enough to know not to trust Blizzard 100%.

I loathe sharding. It's a great tool for Blizzard in times of great server stress, sure, but IMO their use of it on the retail servers has been extremely heavy-handed. Without trying to seem as if I'm covering my head in tinfoil, their use of sharding actually seems like an attempt to deliberately kill any last vestiges of real server community that was left in WoW. If that wasn't the intent, it was certainly the outcome. It's because of this that I believe that Blizzard is extremely irresponsible in using that technology for anything other than the most extreme circumstances.

That said, if the Classic servers are slammed on launch week, I guess I'm OK with the starting areas-- and by that I mean Coldridge Valley, Valley of Trials, where the humans start, etc.-- to have sharding. I'm less enthused about places like Elwynn Forest and Durotar and Dun Morogh being sharded as that's where I think people should be getting used to grouping up. But it sounds like that's going to be happening as well, so I'm going to have to live with it.

I will not be down with sharding in zones such as the Barrens, Silverpine, Westfall etc. because of the difficulty of certain quests in each of those zones lending themselves to grouping-- not to mention the fact that dungeons are located in them and the presence of sharding will make forming groups for those just that much more difficult.

And what about sharding at the AQ event? They'd better not.

TL;DR: sharding will be in at Classic launch for low-level zones and I will live with it, if not like it. If it creeps up into anything higher than the second-level (5-10) zones, I will be an unhappy camper.
BTW NO SHARDING, just incase you couldn't work that out from the other thousands of posts regarding the topic. Let me make it easy for you guys.

SHARDING = BAD
COMMUNITY = GOOD

MOBILE GAME = BAD
CARING ABOUT CUSTOMER = GOOD

AZERITE ARMOR = BAD
PLAYER CHOICE = GOOD

TIME GATED CONTENT = BAD
PLAYER FREEDOM = GOOD

This is how you keep your loyal customers. Customers = money!! How is it not this simple?
"first few weeks"

Yeah sure, as if. That !@#$ system is here to stay and if they use it on launch, I will bet 500 gold that it's gonna be used for thing's like AQ.
11/03/2018 06:13 PMPosted by Gressìl
11/03/2018 06:11 PMPosted by Gleemo39F194
Sharding would kill city raid defenses. You wouldnt be able to defend your city leader.


There is a reason it's in the starting zone. He didn't mention the city. And by the time you're geared to attempt that there won't be sharding based on what ion said today.

You do understand that PvP happens in starting zones just as much as it does in the cities, right? It doesn't even have to be a PvP realm for it to happen. The guards may be relatively stronger against players than they are in the current game but an organized group is not going to have that much trouble with them.

There will be players hitting 60 a short time after launch. Players are too knowledgeable about the game now for it to require weeks to get to level cap.

So... a group of Horde take the zeppelin to Grom'gol Base then head up the coast to Elwynn Forest and Goldshire. The majority of NPCs are PvP flagged, including the quest givers. The Horde kill off all the quest givers preventing low level players from picking up and turning in quests, and possibly use some of the old force-flagging tricks to get those low level players flagged so they can be killed and corpse camped.

World Defense (assuming Blizzard has even added World Defense to Classic since they disabled it in the current game a couple of years ago and Classic is being built over the modern game) announces to the Alliance "Goldshire is under attack!" Immediately a group of high level Alliance players is formed to rush to defend it to beat back the Horde and allow the low level players to go back to questing...

Just to find a Goldshire that isn't under attack because they've been placed on a shard other than the one that is being attacked.

Now what?
Blizzard, thank you first and fore most for listening to your player base. I want to believe you do, so here is some of my concerns that reflects some "psychological" aspects that makes us love MMORPGs so much.

Sharding...

...Makes your character and world feel artificial. You need a home to establish yourself in. Players to relate to. Guilds to relate to.

...- Lessens the prevalence for players to create and find value in community and establishing bonds with other and new players they meet in the world.[/b]
Example: "hmm... I do not know if I will meet this guy again, why put effort in even caring about him?" - (btw, the opposite is what made vanilla great).

- ...Subconsciously removes the value and affection you put on your character ... thus making you want to spend less time playing the game. We are talking about immersion here. When the fantasy world you engage does not immerse to completely - WoW just becomes another game like all other games that does not captivate you the same way a RPG should do.

- ...Destroys the role playing aspect foundation of the game. (Not to be confused with "role playing" on an RP server). You want to feel you are a living and breathing character wandering around in this fixed epic world. The role playing aspect is core to making the game fun. With sharding you will be teleported back and forth and really have no sense of grasp in which realm or world you are playing in.

- ...Makes the world not feel tangible - this is very important (because one factor that made WoW more addicting than a drug was that you felt like escaping real life when entering the realm).

- ...Technical aspects ruining the experience, for example players disappearing in front of your eyes when joining groups.

Thx
Also he was talking about WEEKS. Does that mean they will shard Westfall?
11/04/2018 03:35 AMPosted by Aesqt
Also he was talking about WEEKS. Does that mean they will shard Westfall?


We don't know. I suspect it may be something they do for a certain amount of time until they see server loads stabilize, but they may be ok with it just being a mess once you a certain level.

I think that's something even they don't have an answer too yet.
11/04/2018 03:35 AMPosted by Aesqt
Also he was talking about WEEKS. Does that mean they will shard Westfall?

Elwynn Forest and Durotar for sure, otherwise it makes no sense. Sharding just Valley of Trials and Northshire Abbey solves nothing at all.
11/04/2018 03:42 AMPosted by Caelle

We don't know. I suspect it may be something they do for a certain amount of time until they see server loads stabilize, but they may be ok with it just being a mess once you a certain level.

I think that's something even they don't have an answer too yet.


I'm pretty sure they have the answer considering that sharding was on and running in full force during the demo despite the fact that the servers were half empty anyway and there wasn't many people around at all.
11/04/2018 03:42 AMPosted by Caelle
11/04/2018 03:35 AMPosted by Aesqt
Also he was talking about WEEKS. Does that mean they will shard Westfall?


We don't know. I suspect it may be something they do for a certain amount of time until they see server loads stabilize, but they may be ok with it just being a mess once you a certain level.

I think that's something even they don't have an answer too yet.

Which is why players don't trust them when they say sharding will only be used for a few weeks in the starting zones at launch.

What they're really doing is opening the door to continue using it at all times, destroying any chance for server communities to develop for the sake of cost savings.
From Wowhead's interview with the WoW Classic devs:

Regarding Sharding in particular, there was a blue post released yesterday talking about the possibility of Sharding in Classic. Sharding has always been a very contentious topic within the community. Have you guys sought out any alternatives to accommodate server load like population caps or quicker respawns or anything like that, in lieu of sharding? Is there any you could avoid sharding?

BB: I'm glad you asked this question as this is a really complicated topic. It is something that is contentious and I understand why people are passionate about this. One of the things we're really committed to, and we're really trying to focus on, is to create that authentic social infrastructure, that authentic sense of community, people knowing who you are on the server and knowing who everybody else is on the server, and so, when we say sharding, I wanna be clear that's a term that is often overused and misunderstood. And we're gonna have some more communication in the months to come and what the differences are between that and other systems that are very similar to it and might have similar effects, and we're looking at what options are available to us. There's a lot of technologies going into Battle for Azeroth that have similar kinds of effects, and one that I wanna call out that a lot of people confuse with sharding is phasing. And there is no phasing in Classic. Another one is cross-realm zones, and there are no cross-realm zones. And so, when we talk about the possibility of sharding, it really is a possibility that we want to investigate and look at, and see what we can do to make it work. We will have more information about it in the months to come.


Source: https://www.wowhead.com/news=288412/blizzcon-2018-wow-classic-interview-with-brian-birmingham-and-john-hight

TL;DR -- No matter what Ion said, sharding is STILL not confirmed either way. And even if it was, they're going to try to make it as non-intrusive as possible. We'll know more over the next few months.

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