Guys calm down! (No Sharding thread)

Classic Discussion
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11/04/2018 03:48 AMPosted by Victorlaw
From Wowhead's interview with the WoW Classic devs:

Regarding Sharding in particular, there was a blue post released yesterday talking about the possibility of Sharding in Classic. Sharding has always been a very contentious topic within the community. Have you guys sought out any alternatives to accommodate server load like population caps or quicker respawns or anything like that, in lieu of sharding? Is there any you could avoid sharding?

BB: I'm glad you asked this question as this is a really complicated topic. It is something that is contentious and I understand why people are passionate about this. One of the things we're really committed to, and we're really trying to focus on, is to create that authentic social infrastructure, that authentic sense of community, people knowing who you are on the server and knowing who everybody else is on the server, and so, when we say sharding, I wanna be clear that's a term that is often overused and misunderstood. And we're gonna have some more communication in the months to come and what the differences are between that and other systems that are very similar to it and might have similar effects, and we're looking at what options are available to us. There's a lot of technologies going into Battle for Azeroth that have similar kinds of effects, and one that I wanna call out that a lot of people confuse with sharding is phasing. And there is no phasing in Classic. Another one is cross-realm zones, and there are no cross-realm zones. And so, when we talk about the possibility of sharding, it really is a possibility that we want to investigate and look at, and see what we can do to make it work. We will have more information about it in the months to come.


Source: https://www.wowhead.com/news=288412/blizzcon-2018-wow-classic-interview-with-brian-birmingham-and-john-hight

TL;DR -- No matter what Ion said, sharding is STILL not confirmed either way. And even if it was, they're going to try to make it as non-intrusive as possible. We'll know more over the next few months.
I would only be okay with it in Northshire for 2-5 days. That is the inch I'm willing to give Blizzard.
11/04/2018 03:48 AMPosted by Falnear
11/04/2018 03:42 AMPosted by Caelle

We don't know. I suspect it may be something they do for a certain amount of time until they see server loads stabilize, but they may be ok with it just being a mess once you a certain level.

I think that's something even they don't have an answer too yet.


I'm pretty sure they have the answer considering that sharding was on and running in full force during the demo despite the fact that the servers were half empty anyway and there wasn't many people around at all.


Yeah I guess they were expecting the server load to be higher and people didn't bite on the virtual ticket just to play around for a couple of levels? What we saw on that demo doesn't bother me much when many of the concerns have been explained in panels or blue posts.
11/04/2018 04:10 AMPosted by Caelle
11/04/2018 03:48 AMPosted by Falnear
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I'm pretty sure they have the answer considering that sharding was on and running in full force during the demo despite the fact that the servers were half empty anyway and there wasn't many people around at all.


Yeah I guess they were expecting the server load to be higher and people didn't bite on the virtual ticket just to play around for a couple of levels? What we saw on that demo doesn't bother me much when many of the concerns have been explained in panels or blue posts.


I didn't see any sharding on the server I was/am playing the demo on.
11/04/2018 03:48 AMPosted by Joynal
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We don't know. I suspect it may be something they do for a certain amount of time until they see server loads stabilize, but they may be ok with it just being a mess once you a certain level.

I think that's something even they don't have an answer too yet.

Which is why players don't trust them when they say sharding will only be used for a few weeks in the starting zones at launch.

What they're really doing is opening the door to continue using it at all times, destroying any chance for server communities to develop for the sake of cost savings.


Oh I don't trust them either, if you go back and look at my post history you will find that over the years since Vanilla. That said, we have no choice but to trust them at this point, it's pretty much your only option other than not playing.

They said in the panel they understand community is a huge part of Vanilla, so I'm going to hope they get it and really do turn it off after a certain point. I'm just not at the point I'm gonna run around like a chicken with my head cutoff because of something I saw in two zones of a demo at Blizzcon.

Edit: Also we know sharding won't work exactly the same as live as there will be no cross realm so even if you do get shoved in one you will only be with players on your own server.
Sharding in any capacity is wildly inappropriate for classic. Sharding will be in the game and saying anything beyond that is meaningless PR talk. Trying to say it will be limited is disrespectful to your customers. Many of us are well aware that if you can't handle populated zones the first few weeks then you wont be able to handle a swarm of players later on.

You will make a higher profit by using sharding, we get it. You are taking the live version of the game and making the minimum number of changes that you think you can get away with and then calling it classic. It's being done fast on a shoestring budget.

From what was seen in the demo and the announced summer release date it is clearly impossible that anything approaching an authentic classic experience will happen. The time and money needed to do this at an acceptable level is not being allocated.

Merely announcing sharding wont be used wont enough to appease me. The lack of commitment being shown has to be addressed. The only way to do that is to take the old 1.12 version that we know you have stored and modernizing it. It will surely take several years and a lot more money to do it that way but the result will be infinitely better.

You are just a video game company, I get that. But at the same time if you want people to spend money on your games then your reputation matters. Blizzard representatives have repeatedly gone to great lengths to state an authentic classic experience will be delivered. With what we know at this point Blizzard is going to fail miserably on this endeavor.

I bought the original Warcraft when it first came out. I did the same for Warcraft 2, Warcraft 3, Starcraft and World of Warcraft. I played World of Warcraft through most of Wrath of the Litch King.

The reputational damage from this is real. If this isn't corrected soon then you are making it obvious Blizzard is no longer a reputable company and should be totally avoided in the future.
11/04/2018 12:02 AMPosted by Ozzyprime
Why cant you just deal with temporary sharding for launch?


Its not required.

The players that will be playing the game post 2-3 months are the majority of players that dont want sharding.

The people whom like sharding or any of the BFA QoL will most likely only be tourist there no need to cater the game for them - as they will be going back to BFA once their classic itch wears off
11/04/2018 04:40 AMPosted by Righteouscow
11/04/2018 12:02 AMPosted by Ozzyprime
Why cant you just deal with temporary sharding for launch?


Its not required.

The players that will be playing the game post 2-3 months are the majority of players that dont want sharding.

The people whom like sharding or any of the BFA QoL will most likely only be tourist there no need to cater the game for them - as they will be going back to BFA once their classic itch wears off


I'd hardly call sharding QOL. And yes, it IS required.

Again, I'd rather trust Blizzard's own server engineers who say it is, than some random nobody on the forums who says it isn't.
Not a fan of sharding. Instead of solving problems for players, such as initial flood of players in starting zones, why not let the players solve those problems by themselves. Some can venture out start grabbing flight paths. Some can group up trying to take on some higher level mobs outside the starting zones. Some might venture out and explore the capital city. Some might wait out the initial flood. Some might log in and feel excited to see so many people in the starting zone and fall in love with the game.
By introducing sharding you take all those possibilities away.

Edit: Then when they look back at this, they can be like "hey remember when wow classic launched that was crazy" and memories and bonds are created.
Sharding is just bull!@#$. Sure you say only for such and such time, but we've already been down that road. If it's even possible for you to shard, it's going to be used whenever you think you want to. I was going to place this just because the whole idea of sharding and phasing has completely destroyed any sort of server identity in the retail version. I did give it a chance but I really don't like it, So I'm done subbing to it, (you did get me for another $60 though!)

Thanks again for telling us what we want instead of listening to what we want.

I guess after you get everyone locked into the tos and out of refund range then it won't matter much what we think will it? 2 days becomes a week, a week becomes a month and then bam, blizz doesn't have to do anything to appease us and they keep all our monies, once again.

That's what has ruined this game, a great product is created, then the profiteers are moved in to maximize profits while slowly destroying the games. I've seen it happen a lot. Blizzard used to envision and bring to fruition a great game as top priority, but now it is more about maximizing profits. I have concluded that a great game has become secondary to profits for blizzard.

It was obvious with the implementation of micro-transactions in all their games. Pay to win is more profitable on the surface, but in the long run, you are selling out and deteriorating your reputation, and are becoming just another fish in the sea. Once a great whale and now just another fish. Maybe a different fish will actually give me what I want to pay for, rather than telling me what I want to pay for.

At least I think this is my opinion, or what was my opinion again blizzard?
No sharding
11/04/2018 05:23 AMPosted by Fifi
Not a fan of sharding. Instead of solving problems for players, such as initial flood of players in starting zones, why not let the players solve those problems by themselves. Some can venture out start grabbing flight paths. Some can group up trying to take on some higher level mobs outside the starting zones. Some might venture out and explore the capital city. Some might wait out the initial flood. Some might log in and feel excited to see so many people in the starting zone and fall in love with the game.
By introducing sharding you take all those possibilities away.


Quoted for truth.
11/04/2018 04:44 AMPosted by Victorlaw
11/04/2018 04:40 AMPosted by Righteouscow
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Its not required.

The players that will be playing the game post 2-3 months are the majority of players that dont want sharding.

The people whom like sharding or any of the BFA QoL will most likely only be tourist there no need to cater the game for them - as they will be going back to BFA once their classic itch wears off


I'd hardly call sharding QOL. And yes, it IS required.

Again, I'd rather trust Blizzard's own server engineers who say it is, than some random nobody on the forums who says it isn't.

Sharding is NOT required. Their server engineers never said it was REQUIRED either. It just makes their job easier? Maybe? There are literally multiple examples of private servers with populations 3-4x higher than Blizzard Vanilla servers running absolutely fine without sharding, on a budget of a few hundred dollars a month. If they can do it, there is zero reason that Blizzard can't.
11/02/2018 03:43 PMPosted by Dragtuslivz
11/02/2018 03:39 PMPosted by Lore
As you've noticed, the Classic Demo does have realm sharding. This is to let as many people as possible experience it without technical issues such as server capacity or spawn density getting in the way.

Longer term, we know how crucial it is to the Classic experience for you to see your friends when you walk into Stormwind or when you’re helping them on a quest you’ve already completed. And there should only ever be one Kazzak on a realm, no matter how many people are waiting for him to spawn.

We’re still looking at how we can best deliver an authentic Classic experience at launch, and in the weeks and months that follow - both in terms of gameplay and community. You won’t see phasing (which is tied to specific quests that don't exist in Classic) or cross-realm zones (which combine multiple realms together) in Classic. However, realm sharding is one of the best tools we have to keep realms stable when hundreds of players are swarming the same initial few zones and killing the same few mobs (like they will be at the launch of Classic). To that end, we do believe that some form of sharding may be helpful, especially in those early days. But we recognize that a cohesive world is critical to WoW Classic and are committed to bringing that to you.


This seems reasonable. Man i stepped away for an hour to play the demo and this place lost it's mind lol.


That's what the Vanilla zealots do. Read a post, don't understand what it's saying, and then get whipped up into a frothing mob over nothing.
I would prefer no sharding whatsoever.

If it is utilized for over a month after launch, or in non-starter zones (level 10 or higher), I don't know if I could tolerate it.

I may quit at that point.
I've followed the classic discussion forum for as long as it's existed, only ever posted once, and I can't recall server sharding ever being a topic for discussion or debate. NO one ever could have conceived that it would be a thing in classic.

Which makes sense, since sharding is so out of left field, so antithetical to the number one appeal of vanilla, community

Personally, if sharding is in the game at launch, I will wait and see if it's turned off after a few days to a week. If not, I will not be playing classic

edit, and if it ever comes back, I will unsub
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Which is why players don't trust them when they say sharding will only be used for a few weeks in the starting zones at launch.

What they're really doing is opening the door to continue using it at all times, destroying any chance for server communities to develop for the sake of cost savings.


Oh I don't trust them either, if you go back and look at my post history you will find that over the years since Vanilla. That said, we have no choice but to trust them at this point, it's pretty much your only option other than not playing.

They said in the panel they understand community is a huge part of Vanilla, so I'm going to hope they get it and really do turn it off after a certain point. I'm just not at the point I'm gonna run around like a chicken with my head cutoff because of something I saw in two zones of a demo at Blizzcon.

Edit: Also we know sharding won't work exactly the same as live as there will be no cross realm so even if you do get shoved in one you will only be with players on your own server.


Yeah, but what if you ally with a lvl one at the spawn point when you're getting camped just to "shard" out? That kills the integrity of the game. "sharding" as an option kills the integrity of the game in general. A realm is a single entity, not a multi-verse with alternate realities that you just go in and out of whenever.
11/04/2018 04:44 AMPosted by Victorlaw
11/04/2018 04:40 AMPosted by Righteouscow
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Its not required.

The players that will be playing the game post 2-3 months are the majority of players that dont want sharding.

The people whom like sharding or any of the BFA QoL will most likely only be tourist there no need to cater the game for them - as they will be going back to BFA once their classic itch wears off


I'd hardly call sharding QOL. And yes, it IS required.

Again, I'd rather trust Blizzard's own server engineers who say it is, than some random nobody on the forums who says it isn't.
It's not required. Like someone else said, server stability would begin and end at the log-in servers. If you cap the servers to 3K, 500 more than what it was originally. You'd have slightly congested starts for sure, but not as bad as private servers as they have and have had 5K+ users so the spawns end up more swamped.

Once you get to barrens and beyond the herd starts to thin and tourists will likely burn out even during the first 10 levels. Especially people not used to playing vanilla hunter. Having to buy ammo and keep my pet happy? how terrible! (not like it matters to me personally though)
11/04/2018 06:54 AMPosted by Rydèr
11/02/2018 03:43 PMPosted by Dragtuslivz
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This seems reasonable. Man i stepped away for an hour to play the demo and this place lost it's mind lol.


That's what the Vanilla zealots do. Read a post, don't understand what it's saying, and then get whipped up into a frothing mob over nothing.


You're just looking at the surface, rather than what it really does to the integrity of the server and what a realm really was. A single entity . . And yes, it makes a huge difference that might not be readily apparent to some.
11/04/2018 07:27 AMPosted by Greenemprah
11/04/2018 04:44 AMPosted by Victorlaw
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I'd hardly call sharding QOL. And yes, it IS required.

Again, I'd rather trust Blizzard's own server engineers who say it is, than some random nobody on the forums who says it isn't.
It's not required. Like someone else said, server stability would begin and end at the log-in servers. If you cap the servers to 3K, 500 more than what it was originally. You'd have slightly congested starts for sure, but not as bad as private servers as they have and have had 5K+ users so the spawns end up more swamped.

Once you get to barrens and beyond the herd starts to thin and tourists will likely burn out even during the first 10 levels. Especially people not used to playing vanilla hunter. Having to buy ammo and keep my pet happy? how terrible! (not like it matters to me personally though)


^^^^ This exactly

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