Stop downplaying the Diablo problem

Games, Gaming and Hardware
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11/04/2018 04:13 PMPosted by Matsujin
There are other Diablo projects on the boil.

There are other Diablo projects on the boil.

The malicious part of me wants Blizzard to cancel them because of the petulant response (Is this an April fools?) from entitled jerks who think they own the franchise. But because they're probably decent humans, they won't do that.

If you don't like what they are doing, don't play it? It doesn't mean microtransactions will be everywhere.

The only guarantee to longevity in gaming is quality, something that Blizzard understands.


Thank you. I am ashamed to be a part of this generations gamers. Entitled, selfish, overreacting, demanding and abysmal attitudes overall.

Sad world we live in.
11/04/2018 04:11 PMPosted by Snowfox
Isn't that exactly the issue though - that INSTEAD of milking their existing playerbase they are trying to go after a new larger player base? .. and their existing diablo playerbase doesn't like how they are doing that? They want to be milked instead?
The issue they had was pulling a bait and switch on their existing customers who they duped into thinking big news was coming for them.

If they're tapping a new market with a mobile version of the game that they don't already have, would those people even know what blizzcon is? Are they that arrogant they think their dumb marketing scheme is that far reaching?

It wasn't blizzcon reveal worthy. They could have just added it to google play or IOS app store and run actual marketing instead of wasting their loyal fan's time.

That, or they want all their loyal fans to buy the game AGAIN and replay it AGAIN on phone, because it's just so novel on a new device! Either way , they were retarded at best and sinister at worst.

Also, there's a difference between milking and catering.

Milking: finding a lazy way to get more money out of someone for the same crap you've been giving them (i.e. pushing players to buy wow tokens to fund their raid consumables because you make farming 10x more of a life sucking chore).

Catering: Giving a new game with all the cool stuff and some new stuff that allow those faithful to continue to experience newer, better stuff in the same universe they've been in.
11/04/2018 04:18 PMPosted by Akaidian
11/04/2018 04:11 PMPosted by Snowfox
Isn't that exactly the issue though - that INSTEAD of milking their existing playerbase they are trying to go after a new larger player base? .. and their existing diablo playerbase doesn't like how they are doing that? They want to be milked instead?
The issue they had was pulling a bait and switch on their existing customers who they duped into thinking big news was coming for them.

If they're tapping a new market with a mobile version of the game that they don't already have, would those people even know what blizzcon is? Are they that arrogant they think their dumb marketing scheme is that far reaching?

It wasn't blizzcon reveal worthy. They could have just added it to google play or IOS app store and run actual marketing instead of wasting their loyal fan's time.

That, or they want all their loyal fans to buy the game AGAIN and replay it AGAIN on phone, because it's just so novel on a new device! Either way , they were retarded at best and sinister at worst.

Well there's two different topics there.

The reveal of it at Blizzcon to existing Diablo fans was probably unwise, I'd agree with that. That's purely PR and marketing though.

Making a mobile version of Diablo to get new customers though... that's a different topic and I don't think it's as cut & dry "bad idea" as some people are acting like.
11/04/2018 04:06 PMPosted by Thurgal
IMO the diablo situation comes down to what is actually going on.

Is this them no longer giving a !@#$ and cashing out of diablo? because that it what it looks like.

Why was a chinese studio used to make the game? Maybe it's a quality game that you had to partner with a chinese company to gain access to the chinese market. Or maybe you give 0 %^-*s about diablo and partnering with them lets you re-skin one of their games so you can cheaply make some cash off the Diablo brand with minimal effort and overhead. Since it looks like a re-skin of their game it looks like the latter. An easy cash grab, trying to milk the pay to win whales in the freemium mobile space.

How are you going to make money off the game? Is it a one time purchase? Aesthetics? Is it freemium? is it pay to win?

What does this mean for the PC franchise? Should PC players expect the future of Diablo to be mobile devices?

For what it's worth, freemium and chasing whales in a more mature market like the PC gaming market is seen as low brow and unethical. Loot boxes done wrong are seen as gambling for children. It's a bit hyperbolic to compare it to tobacco, but I think of freemium whales as the same kind of thing. Sure it's not as bad in that you don't get cancer, but a company is exploiting poor decisions. Those people have a right to make those decisions, and maybe its worth it for them. But I think a lot of them regret it later, and I'm not really interested in supporting companies like that.

So if you are going for a cheaper game with easy returns exploiting gamblers/wales with a pay to win diablo mobile game. Maybe a lot of people will be ok with that, maybe you will make a lot of money. Truthfully, maybe the handicapped guy who can't work and is on disability isn't getting a lot of wins, so paying to win in a mobile game might make him feel a bit better, and might be bet better than drugs or alcohol abuse, but I'm not interested in supporting a company like that. If it was just rich people it wouldn't bother me. I don't care if you make $100,000 a year and spend $10,000 on video games so you can win or whatever. But It makes me uncomfortable that a lot of mobile companies make money off whales, who are typically people who are not doing well, who don't have a lot of money, and use pay to win mobile games to 'score wins' so to speak, because they aren't getting any wins in real life.

I hope to develop games some time, it might not happen, finishing up in college and have a decent job lined up probably (not quite official yet - the job is also not in gaming). But I looked into mobile games. it's a great platform to get into if you are starting out. But freemium and making money off whales makes me uncomfortable.

Hopefully that explains some reasons why Mobile Diablo is so incredibly disappointing, or potentially disappointing, and so broadly disappointing.

Nicely said and I wish you luck in the future with your game development. I also looked at the mobile market at one time but decided against it for ethical reasons. I just wouldnt feel comfortable with the accepted way companies make money in that sphere.
Had they dropped the diablo immortal phone based microtransaction nonsense with an actual Diablo 4 (or polish and relaunch of D2) they likely would've gotten a far better reaction.

immortal is the frosting but blizzard thought if their devs on stage finished every sentence with their voices getting louder in phony excitement was gonna trick blizzcon attendees into believing immortal was the actual cake... they had another thing coming
11/04/2018 04:16 PMPosted by Nixnil
Sad world we live in.
The only thing sad about this generation of gamers is the lapse in judgment on what is a good full game deserving of full priced retail, and an acceptance on their part of garbage pricing strategies of stuff like F2P with premium purchases (that allow for a garbage game not EVER worthy of a $60 price tag to somehow get these braindead individuals to spend way more than $60 on such garbage like farmville).
I wish we had arcade games and arcade hangouts like in the early 80s. The Tron movie opening scene was so powerful, but those days are gone.

I want Ubisoft to release a true successor to the rainbow six series, but my wants are now not the norm.

Blizzard is diversifying its portfolio and hedging its bets trying to survive. I am one consumer among millions, and I'm certain my lack of contribution will affect them personally. They know this, and are shrugging off the hate.

Not a lot any of us can do, but leave and or adapt. Even if they followed us older gamers, having gamers making games not disinterested businesses people, the atherosclerositic player base would have us mad at the rest of the world for not understanding our level of fun.
I would have welcomed no news for the diablo franchise over a mobile game myself.

But i'm sure it will make them lots of money and that's the most important thing for them.

Rip the long term playerbase and its a huge shame cause the Diablo Ip is an awesome IP.
Will it affect WoW ? No.


Did you even read my post?

When a company starts pulling greedy practices in one of their games it starts slowly seeping into all of their games if they know they can get away with it.

Let's take a look at current WoW.

Many years ago I said WoW will start selling mounts. People said that would never happen, Blizzard would never do such a thing, surely! Then they started selling mounts and pets instead of giving them as content rewards.

I said Blizzard would start selling pets. People said it wouldn't happen, it happened. I said Blizzard would start selling cosmetic armor. People said it would never happened, then it happened.

I said WoW will likely get a in game cash shop, we got a in game cash shop.

I said Blizzard doing these things was a gate way to start selling gold. People laughed my thread into the ground and now here we are with WoW tokens. Granted I actually like WoW tokens as I can pay for my sub with gold, but its beside the point.

People time and time again go "lol nah bruh, Blizzard would NEVER do anything bad to WoW! They'd never put in greedy practices! Micro-transactions in our $15 a month, $20 box price, $50 a expansion game? That will never happen!"

And here we are

Give it about 4, maybe 5 years and I'll be here making another thread pointing back to this one going "see?" when WoW is filled to the brim with even more microtransactions and Blizzard abandons PC content in favor of more profitable mobile games
11/04/2018 04:18 PMPosted by Akaidian
The issue they had was pulling a bait and switch on their existing customers who they duped into thinking big news was coming for them.


The only people who were duped are those who duped themselves because of their delusions of self worth. Blizzard announced a game for mobile for fans of that game who play games on mobile. The people who don't play games on mobile who feel they should be coddled/catered to are now kvetching.
I don't begrudge Blizzard trying to expand into new markets like mobile gaming, or even doing so with spinoffs of their existing games, like they are doing with Diablo Immortal. It's a largely untapped market for them, except for Hearthstone, so it makes business sense for them to start going in that direction a bit to see if they can be successful there like on the PC platform.

What I have a problem with is Blizz being so out of touch with their players that they thought an audience of PC gamers that love Diablo enough to wait in line and attend that panel would be receptive to new approach of taking that franchise to mobile.

And being so clueless as to think they would embrace it like they were announcing D4, as evidenced by their "What, you don't have phones?" comment. It's as if they actually thought that those in the audience would be jumping for joy at the announcement. And that probably explains why they had nothing to announce for Diablo on the PC.

Yet over the last year, it seems like someone at Blizz started to get a clue, as they started ramping back off of the Diablo hype train and trying to temper expectations. And if that was indeed the case, they should have had something to at least tease, if not announce, for the PC platform for that title. But it seems like in the end, they totally dropped the ball and decided to put all their eggs in that mobile announcement basket. Now they just got a pile of broken eggs.

We are seeing a lot of the same thing in WoW, with the devs being out of touch with the players. They seem to prefer having to explain why they don't have to pay attention to player feedback and instead keep plugging along with fundamental gameplay issues.

Even when they acknowledge problems, like they did with shadow priests, they deflected and deferred saying they would get a rework in the next big content patch instead of with expansion launch like most all the rest of the specs. Now we see they are just adjusting numbers in a normal tuning pass, and that is is for the must delayed and long anticipated "rework" of the spec. If that was really all that was required, why didn't they do it at launch or shortly thereafter?

All this really makes you wonder what is going on with management there these days. Are they simply just doing stuff from their guts? Are they doing any player research? Why are they so quick to get defensive and be so dismissive of player feedback?

It just leaves me with a sense that they are just flailing out of control and really at a loss to understand why the players are reacting the way they are and instead would just prefer to stick their fingers in their ears and plow ahead like they can't hear us. And that's definitely not a recipe for success for them for their games or the company as a whole.
11/04/2018 04:13 PMPosted by Matsujin
There are other Diablo projects on the boil.

There are other Diablo projects on the boil.

The malicious part of me wants Blizzard to cancel them because of the petulant response (Is this an April fools?) from entitled jerks who think they own the franchise. But because they're probably decent humans, they won't do that.

If you don't like what they are doing, don't play it? It doesn't mean microtransactions will be everywhere.

The only guarantee to longevity in gaming is quality, something that Blizzard understands.

I've watched the clip. The individual you're speaking of didn't seem entitled to me. He looked severely disappointed. You didn't mention Blizzard's "jerk entitled" response to a nice guy who asked if Diablo Immortal would be playable on PC.
11/04/2018 04:24 PMPosted by Akaidian
11/04/2018 04:16 PMPosted by Nixnil
Sad world we live in.
The only thing sad about this generation of gamers is the lapse in judgment on what is a good full game deserving of full priced retail, and an acceptance on their part of garbage pricing strategies of stuff like F2P with premium purchases (that llow for a garbage game not EVER worthy of a $60 price tag to somehow get these braindead individuals to spend way more than $60 on such garbage like farmville).


Wow, at least we know the level of ignorance we face when talking to you. Thanks for the heads up.

Those aren't gamers you are talking about. Those are the non gamers, with heavy phone addictions and Facebook syndrome.
11/04/2018 04:21 PMPosted by Snowfox
11/04/2018 04:18 PMPosted by Akaidian
... The issue they had was pulling a bait and switch on their existing customers who they duped into thinking big news was coming for them.

If they're tapping a new market with a mobile version of the game that they don't already have, would those people even know what blizzcon is? Are they that arrogant they think their dumb marketing scheme is that far reaching?

It wasn't blizzcon reveal worthy. They could have just added it to google play or IOS app store and run actual marketing instead of wasting their loyal fan's time.

That, or they want all their loyal fans to buy the game AGAIN and replay it AGAIN on phone, because it's just so novel on a new device! Either way , they were retarded at best and sinister at worst.

Well there's two different topics there.

The reveal of it at Blizzcon to existing Diablo fans was probably unwise, I'd agree with that. That's purely PR and marketing though.

Making a mobile version of Diablo to get new customers though... that's a different topic and I don't think it's as cut & dry "bad idea" as some people are acting like.

Making an exclusively mobile version of Diablo to get new customers at the expense of existing customers is pretty cut and dried, Snow.
11/04/2018 04:29 PMPosted by Nixnil
Those aren't gamers you are talking about. Those are the non gamers, with heavy phone addictions and Facebook syndrome.
And that's who the d3 mobile release was for. And that is the actual current (younger) generation of gamers everyone is moving to target. If you aren't in that group, congrats, you're in the previous gen of gamers like me. People in their mid 20's and 30's aren't current gen gamers any more.
11/04/2018 04:31 PMPosted by Velara

Making an exclusively mobile version of Diablo to get new customers at the expense of existing customers is pretty cut and dried, Snow.

No, it isn't... and that kind of argument is boring - just saying "it's cut and dried."

There's a balance there, always, between trying to draw in new customers, retain existing ones, and bring back other ones. It's not a simple equation to solve.

Sure, you can always just fall back on "existing loyal customers should get their way first!", but that's not really looking at it from a business standpoint, which business have to do.

Their mistake was the PR failure with Blizzcon, not the idea itself.
11/04/2018 04:36 PMPosted by Snowfox
Their mistake was the PR failure with Blizzcon, not the idea itself.
It is an easy problem to solve. Make an actual new product that kicks !@# like Red Dead Redemption 2. Massively successful, raking in tons of cash, tons of new customers, etc. It's simple to do, but risky because you don't know if your product will sink or swim, so blizz avoids it because they're not a company about that life any more. They're about safe and secure.
11/04/2018 04:36 PMPosted by Snowfox
11/04/2018 04:31 PMPosted by Velara

Making an exclusively mobile version of Diablo to get new customers at the expense of existing customers is pretty cut and dried, Snow.

No, it isn't... and that kind of argument is boring - just saying "it's cut and dried."

There's a balance there, always, between trying to draw in new customers, retain existing ones, and bring back other ones. It's not a simple equation to solve.

Sure, you can always just fall back on "existing loyal customers should get their way first!", but that's not really looking at it from a business standpoint, which business have to do.

Their mistake was the PR failure with Blizzcon, not the idea itself.

There would have been balance, had a PC project also been announced, even if only on the drawing board.

There was only imbalance.

Moreover, show me the mobile phone "gamers" who attended Blizzcon. Obviously the convention was aimed at the players it's always aimed at -- PC gamers in the main, followed by those who play Blizzard games ported from the PC to other platforms.

In this regard, DI is unprecedented. Surely, the Blizzard name still has enough pull for market entry with a brand new title without prostituting an existing well-loved PC franchise and jettisoning the entire player base by exclusion?

Please don't reply by telling me to get a phone, or asking if I have one.

That was adding insult to injury.
11/04/2018 02:00 PMPosted by Monrith
I see a lot of people shrugging off the Diablo problem like it doesn't effect them. What Blizzard is doing effects every Blizzard game going forward and every player, not just Diablo players. This can and certainly will effect WoW.

If they're willing to release a free to play, micro-transaction hell game full well knowing that is in no way or form what players ever wanted, then proceed to delete over 100k dislikes and over 14k comments on the reveal trailer in attempts to do damage control that's a bad sign for all of us regardless of what Blizzard game you play.

It shows they're stepping down to EA and Activision (Activision which owns Blizzard) levels of tomfoolery to make as much profit as humanly possible at your expense.

Look at Activision's games, which again owns Blizzard. Look at Destiny 1 and 2. Look at Call of Duty with the many things they've been pulling over the years. Look at all the things they've done.

That will slowly become WoW's fate if everyone keeps shrugging off the junk they're pulling with Diablo. We'll see WoW go even deeper into micro-transaction land, we'll see less and less content, we'll see more sleazy business practices and heck, you may even see Warcraft 4 and Starcraft as mobile pay to win hell games if Diablo Immortal makes them enough profit.

Our complaints can force companies to tow the line at the very minimum. See the Battlefront 2 controversy; we memed EA so hard into the ground Disney called them up and told them to put out the trash fire they ignited.

If you give a inch greedy game companies will take several thousand miles, your first born, your wife, your weird WoW fan fictions, will eat all the food in your fridge and hog the sofa when you're trying to watch Game of Thrones.

Don't let them ruin your games.


good points. but I say too late. With last round of gutting. I can play four of my heroes with a hand control and not be hampered one bit. I won't even have to use my key pad. except for getting on horse, repairing and eating that it.

If asking I have a 12 point hand controller. That all I need really.
11/04/2018 04:41 PMPosted by Akaidian
11/04/2018 04:36 PMPosted by Snowfox
Their mistake was the PR failure with Blizzcon, not the idea itself.
It is an easy problem to solve. Make an actual new product that kicks !@# like Red Dead Redemption 2. Massively successful, raking in tons of cash, tons of new customers, etc. It's simple to do, but risky because you don't know if your product will sink or swim, so blizz avoids it because they're not a company about that life any more. They're about safe and secure.

That's what Overwatch was.

It's funny to me though, because I remember when D3 came out there was a LOT of complaining about it. Diablo was 'ruined', Blizzard has lost their way, etc... now there's evidently a lot of love for it and anything different is the wrong thing. I've seen that trend here with wow and previous expansions.

It'll be funny, at least to me because I have a weird sense of humor, when diablo for the phone comes out, becomes popular.. and then THEY get outraged when a PC version is announced next instead.

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