[Spoilers] About the Forsaken: Which is it?

Story Forum
Perhaps the weakest story beat about the Forsaken is that many of them appear all too willing to take up arms against the Alliance if slain by the Horde and reanimated, which has generated speculation about coercion, charming, and other such magics.

This was at least partially addressed somewhat as Lilian Voss consoled newly-slain-and-animated Captain Amalia Stone as she adjusted to what it was going to be to be Forsaken and was deeply conflicted about it. She's told she won't be accepted as a reanimated corpse. Seems to be convincing, even though I don't remember seeing her act in any meaningful way against the Alliance yet apart from collaboration.

The risen Tidesage, Thomas Zelling, was more willing to become Forsaken but experienced rejection from his family, as Voss predicted.

The preceding cases are why it's strange to me that Sylvanas thinks that Derek Proudmoore will actually be taken back in. We're dealing with two conflicting notions that are spoken as a given, which begs the question: Are Forsaken likely to be accepted by their former nations, or turned away?

Why does Sylvanas presume Derek Proudmoore will be accepted by his family again when most Forsaken are told, some by Sylvanas herself, that they will only be turned away as monsters for their transformed, decaying states? She seems to be banking on different rules for royals.

The realities of faction loyalties in newly-risen Forsaken individuals is so wildly inconsistent that it really shows whenever it's brought up. I'm surprised no one thought this plotline needed some serious refinement.
I just got a premonition. How likely is it they're going to lean on the revelation that Alonsus Faol is undead and his confrontation with Genn Greymane and Turalyon and whatever's going on with Calia to introduce a sweeping reform of public opinion about the Undead in the general public of the Alliance?
I'm not sure how much I agree with some of your points, but I can see where your coming from. I think that BfA could have seen some benefit from social reformation on Stormwind's (apparent) public opinion on undead, rather than "BLIGHT IT ALL."
11/12/2018 07:56 PMPosted by Dayon
I just got a premonition. How likely is it they're going to lean on the revelation that Alonsus Faol is undead and his confrontation with Genn Greymane and Turalyon and whatever's going on with Calia to introduce a sweeping reform of public opinion about the Undead in the general public of the Alliance?

Very likely. I think blizzard are trying to introduce lightforged undead or something undead into the alliance. They learned from legion that making up a race on the spot (void elves) almost when they become a playable race isn't very good. I think they are slowly seeding this race to actuly be plausible

Side note, I always find it odd that after someone is raised, instead of getting angry and fighting the people who killed them, denied them their afterlife and damned them to an afterlife of suffering, they instead buddy buddy with them and join them with a fanatical vigorous that is unseen anywhere else.

I don't know if it is brainwashing, manipulation, mindcontrol, or just touch of the shadowlands draining their sanity, but I just find it very fishy
is so wildly inconsistent that it really shows whenever it's brought up. I'm surprised no one thought this plotline needed some serious refinement.


Hello! Welcome to WoW storytelling!

Here is the terrible reality. Every instance of an undead being raised was made up, on the spot, by whatever quest designer was making that particular quest. There is no over-arching playbook for them to follow. They just do whatever feels right, to them, in that moment.

This results in an almost comical lack of continuity, which is not a problem for Blizzard, because not only do they not care about continuity, they actively dispise the concept of it. The idea that present content should have to conform to standards created by past content is offensive to them.
11/12/2018 08:10 PMPosted by Jedfastblast
They learned from legion that making up a race on the spot (void elves) almost when they become a playable race isn't very good.


They were suppose to learn that lesson when they introduced Draenei and in fact they point blank said they had and would do a better job at first establishing a race before making them playable in the future.
I think it's because it is Derek Proudmoore, hero of the second war, and the Kul Tirans have previously gone to great lengths to recover his corpse in the Horde war campaign.

While Sylvanas clearly does seem to think Kul Tiras will be even more interested in recovering him after they discover his resurrection, I don;t think it's because she thinks they will accept him back with open arms. Rather it's because she's banking on them being afraid of what horror and humiliation she might enact on former war hero.

It would be a blow to morale to leave him at her tender mercies.

So really it has nothing to do with the reality that most Forsaken will never be accepted by the living.
I mean, "Your friends have been killed and are now zombies fighting against you, how spoooooky!" is a trope. It just usually goes with either some kind of mind control on the part of whoever raised the zombies or the assumption that the zombies are now mindless beasts who exist only to feed on braaaaaaains. I think Blizzard has been trying to shove that trope into the game without regard for existing lore ever since Cata.

I also think they're seeding undead Night Elves for a future plot point.
11/12/2018 08:15 PMPosted by Solythn
is so wildly inconsistent that it really shows whenever it's brought up. I'm surprised no one thought this plotline needed some serious refinement.


Hello! Welcome to WoW storytelling!

Here is the terrible reality. Every instance of an undead being raised was made up, on the spot, by whatever quest designer was making that particular quest. There is no over-arching playbook for them to follow. They just do whatever feels right, to them, in that moment.

This results in an almost comical lack of continuity, which is not a problem for Blizzard, because not only do they not care about continuity, they actively dispise the concept of it. The idea that present content should have to conform to standards created by past content is offensive to them.
11/12/2018 07:49 PMPosted by Dayon
Why does Sylvanas presume Derek Proudmoore will be accepted by his family again when most Forsaken are told, some by Sylvanas herself, that they will only be turned away as monsters for their transformed, decaying states? She seems to be banking on different rules for royals.


if i have to guess:it's because she probably knows how the proudmoores feel,especially jaina,or she thinks how she can use her emotions against her.

So if i were sylvanas i would think:"i am going to torture the mind and soul of derek to TAUNT and provoke jaina because she can't stand seeing her brother suffering, so she will launch a rescue attempt because she has something that is called empathy"

maybe she is counting in the fact that jaina in particular would accept derek because she actually have experience with undeads.
and this would be used as a weapon.
or that is the theory that i have. or probably katherine will be the one who make the mistake of being blinded by emotions,costing her life.
11/12/2018 07:49 PMPosted by Dayon
Perhaps the weakest story beat about the Forsaken is that many of them appear all too willing to take up arms against the Alliance if slain by the Horde and reanimated, which has generated speculation about coercion, charming, and other such magics.

This was at least partially addressed somewhat as Lilian Voss consoled newly-slain-and-animated Captain Amalia Stone as she adjusted to what it was going to be to be Forsaken and was deeply conflicted about it. She's told she won't be accepted as a reanimated corpse. Seems to be convincing, even though I don't remember seeing her act in any meaningful way against the Alliance yet apart from collaboration.

The risen Tidesage, Thomas Zelling, was more willing to become Forsaken but experienced rejection from his family, as Voss predicted.

The preceding cases are why it's strange to me that Sylvanas thinks that Derek Proudmoore will actually be taken back in. We're dealing with two conflicting notions that are spoken as a given, which begs the question: Are Forsaken likely to be accepted by their former nations, or turned away?

Why does Sylvanas presume Derek Proudmoore will be accepted by his family again when most Forsaken are told, some by Sylvanas herself, that they will only be turned away as monsters for their transformed, decaying states? She seems to be banking on different rules for royals.

The realities of faction loyalties in newly-risen Forsaken individuals is so wildly inconsistent that it really shows whenever it's brought up. I'm surprised no one thought this plotline needed some serious refinement.


I have always put it down to Godfrey in Silverpine teaching Sylvanas how dangerous it is to raise people without some sort of mind control being applied. That mistake cost her one of her rez'es and I doubt she is willing to risk her last one giving Stone, Sira, or Summermoon the benefit of the doubt.

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