Why are we here?

Shaman
I want to make this clear, that this post is not simply another post hating on Shamans. I've gone through that and now want to ask a very simple question:

Why, do Shamans even exist as a playable class at this point?

Overall, they don't bring anything to new or valuable over others that cannot be done by another class at this point. Last I knew, we are the least played class, and the general player-base doesn't seem fond of them.

I realize that Shamans are not the only class that has been impacted by the most recent expansion either, so please don't misunderstand me to say, "Only Shamans are getting the short end of the stick" kind of thing either.

We do however, seem to be the class hurt the most by the... vision that developers had for this expansion.

I've seen a bit on both sides where shaman players (and non-shaman players) are having mixed feelings.

This class used to be a swiss army knife, and now, not so much.

Blizzard, has there ever been a point in time where a discussion happened in regards of removing a class from the game? I don't feel like I bring anything useful to a group when doing anything at all. No one is ever excited for a shaman to be in their group.

I cancelled my sub, and decided to re-sub after I heard when the next patch was coming, I do not have much faith it's truly going to fix the issues that we as players have. Furthermore, the introduction of BfA has been the first expansion where I felt like I've not really had any fun. I think it's partially due to my choice to level up Shaman through the expansion over other classes. I'm debating if I want to get something else to 120, or just stop playing. It almost feels like wasted time to level something now. I'm simply.. not happy.

Edit:

A bit of a thematic look at shamans in general now..

Roaring fires now grow dim and smolder..
The gentle caress of wind grows still..
Flowing waters have turned to slow a slow trickle..
The earth beneath our feet no longer rumbles, but merely quivers with an echo of power..
Storms grow distant, weakening in strength and ferocity.

After Azeroth was wounded by Sargeras, the elements lost their potency. And with it, our connection has deteriorated. We, Shaman's, no longer possess the strength we once had. With the potential death of Azeroth, so too will the elements cease.
FinalBossTV did some developer interviews at Blizzcon and he came to the conclusion that Blizz is planning a big massive talent overhaul which considers all the lessons learned from previous customization entries such as artifacts, legendaries and azerite items.
I think if 9.0 really is a massive overhaul to the game then I could understand the uninspired state we are in right now.
Currently I think our talents are very flat and exoressionless. The talent system currently doesn’t really jump in any way because there’s no creativity.
I hope we have good things in store for the game because the current system in place for Player Agency is dull.
11/14/2018 08:10 PMPosted by Gugavor
Why, do Shamans even exist as a playable class at this point?


Because literally deleting the class isn't an option. It would cause a number of issues and so on...it gets joked about enough, but just getting that out of the way.

It's all ultimately fixable, but it would take more investment and creativity than I think we're going to see anytime soon. Hell, it would take admitting there is a problem with the actual specs that isn't purely a numbers issue to start.

Ultimately I can't answer on if you should move on entirely or just onto another class. I guess that depends on if you still enjoy the game at all or not.
11/14/2018 08:21 PMPosted by Alyuzandro
FinalBossTV did some developer interviews at Blizzcon and he came to the conclusion that Blizz is planning a big massive talent overhaul which considers all the lessons learned from previous customization entries such as artifacts, legendaries and azerite items.
I think if 9.0 is really a massive overhaul to the game then I could understand the uninspired state we are in right now.
Currently I think our talents are very flat and exoressionless. The talent system currently doesn’t really jump in any way because there’s no creativity.
I hope we have good things in store for the game because the current system in place for Player Agency is dull.


If you have easy access to said interviews, I'd love to take a look at them!

Also.. patch 9.0? Like, how far down the road is that supposed to be? I barely stayed this long for patch 8.1 (which is December 11th or something?)

I'm very.. disillusioned right now. As much as I enjoyed Legion, I think it may have unfortunately been the equivalent of opening a can of worms. And I've done my best to remind myself that we aren't in Legion anymore, I think that all expansions will never be able to fully compare to it?
11/14/2018 08:25 PMPosted by Twisp
11/14/2018 08:10 PMPosted by Gugavor
Why, do Shamans even exist as a playable class at this point?


Because literally deleting the class isn't an option. It would cause a number of issues and so on...it gets joked about enough, but just getting that out of the way.

It's all ultimately fixable, but it would take more investment and creativity than I think we're going to see anytime soon. Hell, it would take admitting there is a problem with the actual specs that isn't purely a numbers issue to start.

Ultimately I can't answer on if you should move on entirely or just onto another class. I guess that depends on if you still enjoy the game at all or not.


That's the thing.. I don't even know anymore if I truly enjoy the game. It feels like BfA is really killing my interest. I've got some other characters at 110+ but it all feels so.. dull. And like I said before, I don't know if I'd have a different view if I started with another class or not. I know that seems a little strange to say, but I feel lost in a way. If that makes sense.
11/14/2018 08:27 PMPosted by Gugavor
Also.. patch 9.0? Like, how far down the road is that supposed to be? I barely stayed this long for patch 8.1 (which is December 11th or something?)


9.0 would represent the next expansion, so you're looking at a Blizzcon announcement on November 2019 and a Summer 2020 release but we would know what to expect early 2020 due to alpha/beta phases.

Yeah it sucks, but based on what we've seen in 8.1 with not only shaman changes but also with other specs like shadow priests the best we can expect right now are talent changes/swapping, number tuning, and perhaps a few strong Azerite traits each tier (the heroism/bloodlust one looks good).

I think Blizzard doesn't know where to go with shamans. I don't even believe they understand what a shaman is thematically and as a result we have a mish-mash of spells and utility that aren't unique or desirable. I feel like shamans are like those early heroes in MOBA games that are so outdated compared to their current cast that they need an entire rework top to bottom. Concerning WoW, historically, this really only happens on expansion releases.

Also I'm not a vanilla peddler (I think WoW only got good during BC) but looking back at Classic and seeing what made shamans so valuable might give Blizzard a better understanding on where to go with the class in the future.
11/14/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Aegg
11/14/2018 08:27 PMPosted by Gugavor
Also.. patch 9.0? Like, how far down the road is that supposed to be? I barely stayed this long for patch 8.1 (which is December 11th or something?)


9.0 would represent the next expansion, so you're looking at a Blizzcon announcement on November 2019 and a Summer 2020 release but we would know what to expect early 2020 due to alpha/beta phases.

Yeah it sucks, but based on what we've seen in 8.1 with not only shaman changes but also with other specs like shadow priests the best we can expect right now are talent changes/swapping, number tuning, and perhaps a few strong Azerite traits each tier (the heroism/bloodlust one looks good).

I think Blizzard doesn't know where to go with shamans. I don't even believe they understand what a shaman is thematically and as a result we have a mish-mash of spells and utility that aren't unique or desirable. I feel like shamans are like those early heroes in MOBA games that are so outdated compared to their current cast that they need an entire rework top to bottom. Concerning WoW, historically, this really only happens on expansion releases.

Also I'm not a vanilla peddler (I think WoW only got good during BC) but looking back at Classic and seeing what made shamans so valuable might give Blizzard a better understanding on where to go with the class in the future.


I think you described the situation well.

It saddens me to think the closest time that the Shaman may be a meaningful/valued class may not be until the start of the next expansion. I'll stick around for patch 8.1 to see how things go, but I may still cancel my subscription after that point anyways.

I wanted to enjoy the Shaman, I truly did. And Blizzard just !@#$ on it. Ah well. Blizzard got money out of me from several expansions. It may simply be time to move on. None of the other classes really interested me as much, I feel. I wanted to be good as a mage (my main through my entire history on this game) and just wasn't that great. And then I made the switch to shaman. Lol.
11/14/2018 08:21 PMPosted by Alyuzandro
FinalBossTV did some developer interviews at Blizzcon and he came to the conclusion that Blizz is planning a big massive talent overhaul which considers all the lessons learned from previous customization entries such as artifacts, legendaries and azerite items.
I think if 9.0 really is a massive overhaul to the game then I could understand the uninspired state we are in right now.
Currently I think our talents are very flat and exoressionless. The talent system currently doesn’t really jump in any way because there’s no creativity.
I hope we have good things in store for the game because the current system in place for Player Agency is dull.


For Gods sake when will they stop focusing so much on talents and actually fix the base classes! Talents shouldn't alter gameplay so drastically... They are so !@#$ing lazy they just adjust talents and never rework or add abilities/passives to the base of classes. It's so infuriating!
It has already been said.. next expansion.

I won't pretend to know how easy/difficult it is to make changes to a class that basically require them to reinvent a class. Could they do it during an expansion? Possibly, but it's probably more a question of investing time and resources.

They probably don't want to reinvent Shaman right now
Well, that was the excuse during legion, and then they didn't do it during alpha/beta and then they said they'd do it during bfa, so if they're back to "we don't want to do anything midexpansion..."

I'm probably out when my sub runs out in January. My overall game enjoyment just isn't there (which is a mix of systems and class issues), it's not looking like 8.1 is really going to do enough and I have enough !@#$ to deal with IRL in 2019 that I really should take a break. I'll probably still be around the community though, I've been in and out of this game for 14 years, I'd be kidding myself to think I'll quit for good at this point, but, i'm not exactly always going to sit around and deal with the game when it's in a rough state.
11/15/2018 05:52 AMPosted by Twisp
Well, that was the excuse during legion, and then they didn't do it during alpha/beta and then they said they'd do it during bfa, so if they're back to "we don't want to do anything midexpansion..."

I'm probably out when my sub runs out in January. My overall game enjoyment just isn't there (which is a mix of systems and class issues), it's not looking like 8.1 is really going to do enough and I have enough !@#$ to deal with IRL in 2019 that I really should take a break. I'll probably still be around the community though, I've been in and out of this game for 14 years, I'd be kidding myself to think I'll quit for good at this point, but, i'm not exactly always going to sit around and deal with the game when it's in a rough state.


Yeah.. I don't know if I'd go as far to say I'm quitting the game for good. It feels like that right now, but I know that isn't 100% going to happen.

I certainly hope that Blizzard learns not only from their failure in class design, but this expansion as well.
Melee had their reign in 8.0. I expect casters to throttle them for the majority of 8.1. Nothing fun about sitting in 4 consecutive stuns by a rogue and finally being able to cast when you are at 25% health.

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