Upcoming Shadow Priest Changes

Priest
Prev 1 5 6 7 10 Next
10/23/2018 08:42 PMPosted by Malyx
Tested the PTR, it just feels like Live but you get a few more stacks.


Yup, useless changes are useless. Us and Feral are still the worst Mythic+ specs and Shadow has been the worst Mythic+ spec for 2 YEARS. But hey, you now move faster in dispersion...

-Mind Bomb is still useless even wth the buff
-We will still try to fall out of Voidform ASAP to get more Void Eruptions
-We still Have no Burst Potential
-We still don't have an execute window (something that has been core to shadow for as long as I can remember)
-We still have no survivability (If we take Intangibility we lose ALL mobility for a meager Heal on a 1.5 min CD)
-Our Rotation is still clunky and unsatisfying
-Silence is still the worst interrupt with a CD 2-3 times longer than every other spec in the game (besides Solar Beam, which is amazing)
-And lastly we have 2 less talent points than we did in Legion. If you take Shadow Word: Death and Void Torrent then we are using 2 talent points to get back what we had baseline in Legion.

They failed us in Legion and continue to fail us in BfA, and it is sorely disappointing. They know the problems, just fix them already.
10/23/2018 12:20 PMPosted by Whitebolts
The only place anybody said Shadow was getting a rework was on these very forums.


They heavily implied it in the june 14 QA, at the very least mroe then what they got. 10%(7% if you consider the aura nerf and 12% if you also consider and are taking LoTV) damage and 3-4 more stacks was pretty much all we got. That is so small it could of been been added now. We are waiting for 8.1 for that?
Overall very good changes to shadow's offense and defense. My only problem with the changes is that it appears they have doubled down on voidform seeking to make it matter more. My preference would be to make it matter less and less to the point where it just disappears. Shadow won't be "fixed" as long as voidform is a thing.
10/22/2018 07:52 PMPosted by Jøhnø
Mania was actually a good talent.. ;(


RiP Mania. I’d sooner loose body and soul imho.
Tested quite a bit on ptr. The dps is honestly about the same and the playstyle is just as bad. I maxed out at 32 stacks a couple times on ptr and it honestly didn't seem like those stacks did much of anything.
IMO the best way to keep void form and fix shadow would be to move our insanity generation from Mind Blast to our dots. MB should still generate insanity but take away a lot of what it generates so SW: Pain and Vampiric Touch can generate the bulk of it.

If SW: Pain was generating say 40% your insanity it would create a lot of insanity really quickly in packs allowing us to get into void form quickly enough to be useful in Mythic+. Especially if talented into Dark Void we could get almost instant Void Forms.

If another 40% was coming from VT we would be rewarded for multi dotting well. To keep void form up we would have to keep SW: Pain and VT up and spread out on the pack. If you do it well Void Form stays up a long time probably the whole pack. If you do it poorly VF drops and you have to start over at a DPS loss.

Doing it this way would fix our current Mythic+ problem by drowning us with insanity in multi dot/ pack situations and allow for a steady generation on a single target. Single target we would still rely on Mind Blast/SW: Void and Void Bolt to keep us in void form for as long as possible. Single target we would still lose void form so we would have the ramp up and mad dash play style we do now.
Honestly VF needs to be removed entirely, and building insanity should only exist to proc SW:D similar to the Shaman maelstrom mechanics. Hell, leave SW:D and have insanity proc Void Eruption or VB as a pure DPS mechanic. Void Form in its' current state is clunky and unenjoyable, and I notice that most of the time I just don't use it anyway.
10/24/2018 05:23 PMPosted by Sevshazam
Tested quite a bit on ptr. The dps is honestly about the same and the playstyle is just as bad. I maxed out at 32 stacks a couple times on ptr and it honestly didn't seem like those stacks did much of anything.

People saying PTR feels the same as live must be playing a different game than me. The VF extensions feels amazing in my opinion, but my biggest criticism is that we're now extending so long that we're losing a lot of value from DA, since you have to delay it for 10-15 seconds longer than usual.

LotV/LI build feels buttery smooth once you get out of that first VF. 2xCOI (though nerfed) with LI keeps you at a consistent 30-50% of both haste and crit, with haste being a bit smoother.

Torrent making a comeback feels so much better to me personally. I found that I couldn't get significant differences in VF extension between MB and VT, but VT definitely has that "big moment" type of satisfaction now that it's hitting harder.

There's no doubt they missed the boat by keeping SW:D a talent and two charges of MB a talent, but frankly, those wishing for a rework to the spec that totally overhauls VF should probably just reroll - it's clear that these players and the devs don't see eye to eye.

STM 70 stack VFs are back, but I couldn't manage to get an 8m pull on 3 targets with STM to outperform the same duration of a LoTV/LI build. This one is still looking niche, but it may actually have a spot for important execute phases now.

Those claiming not to see a difference in damage need to download a new damage meter or need a new pair of eyes.

These changes are a great step in the right direction, but "I can't tell a difference" feedback just seems like feigned indignation based on how drastically different PTR feels to me.
I'd like to know what you did to see such a huge difference Fifty. 6 dummies on live I was averaging about 11k over 3 minutes. 6 dummies on ptr I was doing an average of 11.1k over 3 minutes. Trying the new lingering and void torrent had me down to 10.5k and 10.8k.
The changes definitely have me leaning towards Legacy over DA, especially for m+

It’s going to be cool to actually have LI and torrent be competitive, any early indication as to which pick will be better for raid/dungeons or which pairs better with Legacy/DA?
10/24/2018 09:22 PMPosted by Sevshazam
I'd like to know what you did to see such a huge difference Fifty. 6 dummies on live I was averaging about 11k over 3 minutes. 6 dummies on ptr I was doing an average of 11.1k over 3 minutes. Trying the new lingering and void torrent had me down to 10.5k and 10.8k.

On live, I can sustain around 18.5k on three target. I was chilling pretty comfortable around 20.5 on three target on PTR using LI/LotV, and that was with a ton of PTR lag.

I don't mean this rude, but 11k on six dummies is extremely low at your ilevel. You're simming around 15k single target (for comparison, I sim at 16.8 with near-BiS). If you could upload a video or logs, I'd be more than willing to take a look.

10/24/2018 09:31 PMPosted by Slimeseason
The changes definitely have me leaning towards Legacy over DA, especially for m+

It’s going to be cool to actually have LI and torrent be competitive, any early indication as to which pick will be better for raid/dungeons or which pairs better with Legacy/DA?

Take it with a grain of salt until the WCP guys get all the sims run, but I'd be shocked if LoTV isn't just straight up meta due to the 5% buff it got. It's large enough that I kind of even doubt we'll see 5% be the number it goes live with.
Here's a very laggy PTR video with not my best play ending a 4m LoTV/LI build at 21.1k dps:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/327102562

Sorry for the UI element clipping. I play in 3440x1440 but stream in 2560x1440, and haven't really set up for PTR streaming.
10/24/2018 10:31 PMPosted by Fiftyrip
Here's a very laggy PTR video with not my best play ending a 4m LoTV/LI build at 21.1k dps:
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/327102562

Sorry for the UI element clipping. I play in 3440x1440 but stream in 2560x1440, and haven't really set up for PTR streaming.


Thats all well and good but at the same time that is parsing stationary on a dummy. We all know once you throw mechanics and movement into the mix that damage drops off significantly and live parses in raids now show other classes/specs performing either above or near where you are performing on a dummy in actual content.
10/25/2018 01:34 AMPosted by Izuni
Thats all well and good but at the same time that is parsing stationary on a dummy. We all know once you throw mechanics and movement into the mix that damage drops off significantly and live parses in raids now show other classes/specs performing either above or near where you are performing on a dummy in actual content.

Uhh, yeah. The point of the video wasn't to showcase standstill dps, it was to show PTR testing for the guy who asked to see what I was doing differently to get more dps on the PTR.
I'm talking about on a single dummy. I just did 6 intervals of 3 minutes with each talent. Shadow will always feel better when you're fighting 3 constant targets like you did. I'm talking about single target.
10/25/2018 06:29 AMPosted by Sevshazam
I'm talking about on a single dummy. I just did 6 intervals of 3 minutes with each talent. Shadow will always feel better when you're fighting 3 constant targets like you did. I'm talking about single target.

Understood - the phrasing made it seem as if you fought six dummies for three minutes, not fought one dummy for three minutes six times.

I showed the three dummy situation because I thought I should compare to your six dummy situation. And yes of course shadow will feel better with multiple targets, but since the damage changes we're looking at aren't focused just on dots, we should see near the same increases from ST as we would from multi-target.
Did a few more tests for pure ST, 4M pulls:

Live Meta build: 12.8k
PTR LotV/LI: 14k
PTR LoTV/Bender: 13.9k
PTR LoTV/Torrent: Details bug causing combat to drop while channeling torrent. Can't tell.
10/25/2018 06:28 AMPosted by Fiftyrip
Uhh, yeah. The point of the video wasn't to showcase standstill dps, it was to show PTR testing for the guy who asked to see what I was doing differently to get more dps on the PTR.


I understand that but the point i am trying to elude to is that the differences you are show are not impressive even for stand still dps and they will tank in actual encounters. 1.2k is about the gain you have from live to beta an 1.2k gain which in itself is pretty decent but they didnt address Shadow's issue of losing significant dps due to mechanics in comparison to other dps.
10/23/2018 12:02 PMPosted by Slimeseason
I got 385 shoulders with Chorus on them in my weekly chest. I’m going to treat this as a portent from the Void Lords to not stray from the path
They're nerfing it by about 50%
10/25/2018 09:38 AMPosted by Izuni
I understand that but the point i am trying to elude to is that the differences you are show are not impressive even for stand still dps and they will tank in actual encounters. 1.2k is about the gain you have from live to beta an 1.2k gain which in itself is pretty decent but they didnt address Shadow's issue of losing significant dps due to mechanics in comparison to other dps.

I'm sorry, but this is just factually incorrect. Void Bolt insanity generation buff will improve our dps while moving, as a larger portion of our VF insanity generation is moved into our instant cast. Hallucinations allows utility spells (including PW:S) to generate insanity. Most importantly, a meta shift to LoTV makes dropping out of voidform early far less impactful, as you're not going to be punished with a desync of DA/MB cycles.

8.1 shadow will be far superior to live shadow when looking at the spec from a "can you do mechanics without dropping dps" perspective (assuming the PTR changes make it to live as-is), and that's before considering the actual numbers tuning of VF. These mechanical QoL changes, combined with the raw numbers buff, are looking excellent for raiding.

Join the Conversation

Return to Forum