Upcoming Shadow Priest Changes

Priest
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I was poking a bit of fun at the people asking for voidform gone in the latter portion of my post, but sarcasm doesn’t really translate well thru text so that’s mea culpa. I’ve been saying for awhile that people who got their hopes up for voidform being taken out have no one to blame but themselves for being unhappy with the buffs/changes
10/26/2018 07:20 PMPosted by Slimeseason
I was poking a bit of fun at the people asking for voidform gone in the latter portion of my post, but sarcasm doesn’t really translate well thru text so that’s mea culpa. I’ve been saying for awhile that people who got their hopes up for voidform being taken out have no one to blame but themselves for being unhappy with the buffs/changes

My b. Gif depicting me right now:
https://i.imgur.com/axJmn.gif
10/26/2018 06:05 PMPosted by Fiftyrip
Acting like these changes are somehow a nerf is actually comical. It's a waste of time even trying to reason with people who just want to complain.


Thats not the issue. The issue is what solution do these changes solve. Shadow Priest will still have the same core problems on top of not being desirable for any form of content. At the very least they gave Feral Druids a 5% crit party buff. I think getting something like that would of been infinitely better then these changes.

10/26/2018 06:52 PMPosted by Fiftyrip
There was never any hope for a total redesign of the class in a non X.0 patch. When's the last time a class saw a full overhaul outside of one of the xpac patches?


Do not think thats entirely true when i can think back on Legion when despite having a system more complex then we have now Destros when through a Major Rework that was much bigger then removing VF would of been.

Finally, you can't just take a look at any change and be instantly happy. You have to be very critical of any change made and how it effects the spec in content and desirability in said content.
10/26/2018 09:03 PMPosted by Izuni
Finally, you can't just take a look at any change and be instantly happy. You have to be very critical of any change made and how it effects the spec in content and desirability in said content.

Let's look at your original statement:

10/25/2018 09:38 AMPosted by Izuni
they didnt address Shadow's issue of losing significant dps due to mechanics in comparison to other dps.

You've already moved the goalpost a mile since this post, and it's you who either barely understood how the changes impact our mobile dps (VB insanity generation + LoTV meta + Hallucination), or you intentionally disregarded them.

I've been thoroughly critical of the issues this new design brings to the table, mainly DA/MB desync being the primary focus.

Figure out what it actually is you want to discuss and we'll continue, but for now:

10/25/2018 06:47 PMPosted by Izuni

I mean not in the mood to continue this
You've already moved the goalpost a mile since this post, and it's you who either barely understood how the changes impact our mobile dps (VB insanity generation + LoTV meta + Hallucination), or you intentionally disregarded them.


I actually havent at all really but sure. My original point still stands and i have not moved the goalpost an inch.

Figure out what it actually is you want to discuss and we'll continue, but for now:


I know what i actually want to discuss you however do not, you are very dismissive of any criticism and try to pass it off as that not being the case when its quite obvious that you are. Being snide and passive aggressive doesn't change that.

10/26/2018 06:05 PMPosted by Fiftyrip
Acting like these changes are somehow a nerf is actually comical. It's a waste of time even trying to reason with people who just want to complain.


Literally you in response to... no one. because people are not saying the changes are a nerf at all. Literally the only thing here in these 8 pages that mention the word nerf is the 3% aura nerf to adjust for the changes and the nerf to CoI. Not a single person actually said Shadow was "Nerfed".

To qoute myself though " I mean not in the mood to continue this" and this time just gonna block you, clearly nothing of value to say, especially when you actively contradict yourself.
10/26/2018 10:21 PMPosted by Izuni
To qoute myself though " I mean not in the mood to continue this" and this time just gonna block you, clearly nothing of value to say, especially when you actively contradict yourself.
I wish to salute Fifty's glorious victory in this forum discussion. Well done sir.
10/26/2018 10:21 PMPosted by Izuni
You've already moved the goalpost a mile since this post, and it's you who either barely understood how the changes impact our mobile dps (VB insanity generation + LoTV meta + Hallucination), or you intentionally disregarded them.


I actually havent at all really but sure. My original point still stands and i have not moved the goalpost an inch.

Figure out what it actually is you want to discuss and we'll continue, but for now:


I know what i actually want to discuss you however do not, you are very dismissive of any criticism and try to pass it off as that not being the case when its quite obvious that you are. Being snide and passive aggressive doesn't change that.

10/26/2018 06:05 PMPosted by Fiftyrip
Acting like these changes are somehow a nerf is actually comical. It's a waste of time even trying to reason with people who just want to complain.


Literally you in response to... no one. because people are not saying the changes are a nerf at all. Literally the only thing here in these 8 pages that mention the word nerf is the 3% aura nerf to adjust for the changes and the nerf to CoI. Not a single person actually said Shadow was "Nerfed".

To qoute myself though " I mean not in the mood to continue this" and this time just gonna block you, clearly nothing of value to say, especially when you actively contradict yourself.


I know you are a gnome but this is an extremely tiny leg to stand on. He pretty much provided mathematical reasoning as to why shadow will be better after 8.1 and your argument is “no we won’t because the spec still doesn’t ‘feel’ good”

It seems you are taking an approach that we won’t be any more desirable by others which is mutually exclusive to the topic at hand, which is the buffs we are receiving. “This won’t make people want us more” isn’t the same argument as “We will mathematically put up better numbers after this”
They seem like good changes. I only just started using Shadow and there are two major issues I think need to be addressed:

1. The vampiric abilities feel like they should be passive. Weren't they passive before? It feels like needless clicks and cooldowns to what doesn't really amount to much gain

2. Too many abilities to click on for a poverty of damage. I am casting and channelling numerous abilities and inflicting little damage. I feel like it's too much effort for so little gain. The talents should probably be adjusted to remove some spells and just add impactful passive bonuses

Aside from that it seems alright. It's clearly on the low end of DPS, but it isn't horrible. I'll take improvements I can get, and increasing void form damage to +20% is a great start.

Oh one last thing, the shadow pet or whatever is not powerful at all, I see no reason for it to be on a 3 min cooldown, even when talented to be improved. It feels like a DoT any other class would have on 30 - 45 sec timer.
10/26/2018 11:16 PMPosted by Slimeseason
I know you are a gnome but this is an extremely tiny leg to stand on. He pretty much provided mathematical reasoning as to why shadow will be better after 8.1 and your argument is “no we won’t because the spec still doesn’t ‘feel’ good”


Thats the thing though, thats not really my argument, to clarify my argument(via first page):

Some Talents have niche uses now(very niche)

Worse dungeon/raid encounters where you cant consistently stay in void form performance because power is going back into Void Form

Still nothing that says "i wanna bring a shadow priest".

Still no baseline SWD.

Things i never said:

Shadow will be worse.

In fact the only thing i disagreed with him on is how hard mechanics will hurt shadow.

Lastly, i do not think you know what "mathematical reasoning" is.

10/26/2018 11:16 PMPosted by Slimeseason
I know you are a gnome but this is an extremely tiny leg to stand on.


Interesting, what leg(argument) am i standing on.

10/26/2018 11:09 PMPosted by Ruenara
I wish to salute Fifty's glorious victory in this forum discussion. Well done sir.


He didnt win anything, there was no point in continuing the argument. He literally took points from things other people said is wrong with the spec and mixed then with my argument in order to form a counter argument to a stance i never created.

I mean ffs i mean a dude said they buffed shadow too much day one and i said they would absolutely nerf to compensate yet i am somehow saying the changes are a nerf now? like what?
10/26/2018 06:52 PMPosted by Fiftyrip
10/26/2018 06:34 PMPosted by Slimeseason
Yeah our numbers might be better, but in the long run this might prevent the chance that shadow gets rolled back to a version that I personally enjoyed more! So is this really a “buff”?

There was never any hope for a total redesign of the class in a non X.0 patch. When's the last time a class saw a full overhaul outside of one of the xpac patches?

What I said in one of my first posts in this thread is that I think folks who don't like voidform should just reroll at this point. There's nothing wrong with not liking voidform, but it's clear players who don't like it just don't see eye to eye with the developers :(

It's really sad that blizzard completely destroyed the core identity of shadow priests though. Voidform is well and good but we should have a choice between voidform and old school shadow imo. Spec fantasy really ruined tons of classes and shadow which was my favorite class is the one I don't play much anymore. I've rerolled but there's never going to be another class quite like old shadow priests.
10/26/2018 10:21 PMPosted by Izuni
I actually havent at all really but sure. My original point still stands and i have not moved the goalpost an inch.

Feel free to try and explain how VB insanity generation buff doesn't help our mobile dps.

10/26/2018 10:21 PMPosted by Izuni
I know what i actually want to discuss you however do not, you are very dismissive of any criticism and try to pass it off as that not being the case when its quite obvious that you are. Being snide and passive aggressive doesn't change that.

Being willing to engage when I disagree is not being dismissive. Being dismissing would be ignoring a discussion had in good faith to say this:

10/25/2018 06:47 PMPosted by Izuni
I mean it has in the past when we could push higher stacks dont see how it will now but sure knck yourself out if you believe it. I mean not in the mood to continue this because ive had very similar conversations when the beta changes hit.


And now this gem:

10/26/2018 10:21 PMPosted by Izuni
Literally you in response to... no one. because people are not saying the changes are a nerf at all. Literally the only thing here in these 8 pages that mention the word nerf is the 3% aura nerf to adjust for the changes and the nerf to CoI. Not a single person actually said Shadow was "Nerfed".

lol?!?!!?!??!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Try reading the posts I actually responded to:

10/26/2018 03:15 PMPosted by Redxyz
Agreed. These "buffs" are actually nerfs in disguise and do nothing to address the underlying issues with shadow priests. Come on Blizzard, this is not enough

The damage 'buff' is countered by the damage aura nerf. If you use Chorus of Insanity (which you should), you will lose damage going from Live to the PTR.

It's time to stop posting, bud.
10/27/2018 12:39 AMPosted by Izuni
10/26/2018 11:16 PMPosted by Slimeseason
I know you are a gnome but this is an extremely tiny leg to stand on. He pretty much provided mathematical reasoning as to why shadow will be better after 8.1 and your argument is “no we won’t because the spec still doesn’t ‘feel’ good”


Thats the thing though, thats not really my argument, to clarify my argument(via first page):

Some Talents have niche uses now(very niche)

Worse dungeon/raid encounters where you cant consistently stay in void form performance because power is going back into Void Form

Still nothing that says "i wanna bring a shadow priest".

Still no baseline SWD.

Things i never said:

Shadow will be worse.

In fact the only thing i disagreed with him on is how hard mechanics will hurt shadow.

Lastly, i do not think you know what "mathematical reasoning" is.

10/26/2018 11:16 PMPosted by Slimeseason
I know you are a gnome but this is an extremely tiny leg to stand on.


Interesting, what leg(argument) am i standing on.

10/26/2018 11:09 PMPosted by Ruenara
I wish to salute Fifty's glorious victory in this forum discussion. Well done sir.


He didnt win anything, there was no point in continuing the argument. He literally took points from things other people said is wrong with the spec and mixed then with my argument in order to form a counter argument to a stance i never created.

I mean ffs i mean a dude said they buffed shadow too much day one and i said they would absolutely nerf to compensate yet i am somehow saying the changes are a nerf now? like what?


You PvE kids really out here typing paragraphs that nobody wants to read. Take a break for the forum for a day lol.
10/27/2018 09:07 AMPosted by Fadingtwo
You PvE kids really out here typing paragraphs that nobody wants to read. Take a break for the forum for a day lol.

Bruh you're at no pvp rating of significance, let's ease up on the dragonslayer shaming.
10/27/2018 09:24 AMPosted by Fadingtwo
I've barely played lol. You're hard stuck rival. Why are you talking? LMAO. You've literally been challenger for 10 years. Stop typing you autist. You mashed your face on your keyboard to 2400 in cata on a backwater battlegroup and are now stuck at 1900 as a disc priest. You're literally irrelevant.

Kael'thas was BG9 in cata, and my 2600 was prior to 4.1 inflation - I've sold rating higher than you've ever achieved :)

The difference is I don't try to push rating - did it a little in beginning of xpac for it's pve benefits. Trying to shame me for current rating is like a heroic raider shaming a 2800 pvper for being 2/8 mythic.

You're in the standard "above average" pvp bracket, but you're nothing special. Just the typical "dargonslayer" memer who will never actually be good at either aspect of the game.
10/27/2018 09:07 AMPosted by Fadingtwo
You PvE kids really out here typing paragraphs that nobody wants to read. Take a break for the forum for a day lol.


School starts on monday then you dont have to read them anymore don't worry(not that i believe you can read in the first place).
Feel free to try and explain how VB insanity generation buff doesn't help our mobile dps.


Literally me:

10/25/2018 09:38 AMPosted by Izuni
they didnt address Shadow's issue of losing significant dps due to mechanics in comparison to other dps.


Mechanics isnt just movement. Example would be Mythrax and i can use lock as an example:

If as an afflock i were to get targetted by the orb and count do anything, my ability to get back into my ramped position is nearly instant the only thing i would(potentially) need to ramp up again was Agony but but being cc'd doesn't hurt too much because at the very least i was waiting on the DB CD anyways and i dont lose any meaningful ramp up. Shadow on the other will have to start the process from 0 having to build to get back into void form, do an entire first cycle, and then get back into void form to be optimal(Void Form + LI and CoI stacks).

That in itself its fine if it was the intent of being Shadow's weakness however the payoff when you are able to do that is weaker then someone who doesnt have to and that's the problem, that is what i am getting at and thats what they didnt fix with these but instead made worse with LI being the strongest talent now.

Being willing to engage when I disagree is not being dismissive. Being dismissing would be ignoring a discussion had in good faith to say this:


I am being dismissive because you are having the wrong discussion with me. Pretty sure you are confusing me or my argument with something else which was evident when you said "movement" instead of "mechanics". So yes i dismissed an argument i never made, point exactly?

And now this gem:


Yup people are not saying it and in the 8 pages here i didnt see it in fact i had to check again, finally saw the 1 guy who said 1 post about it and you then said

10/26/2018 06:05 PMPosted by Fiftyrip
Acting like these changes are somehow a nerf is actually comical. It's a waste of time even trying to reason with people who just want to complain.


I want you remind you that you said i was being dismissive but say "It's a waste of time even trying to reason with people who just want to complain" being very dismissive yourself.

lol?!?!!?!??!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Try reading the posts I actually responded to:


Again you saw one person in the 8 pages here say its a nerf and instead of responding to 1 person(which you didnt) you generalized(which you did).

10/27/2018 07:54 AMPosted by Fiftyrip
It's time to stop posting, bud.


Nah i think you are the one thats done actually and we aren't "buds".
The obvious answer is Blizzard to just pick Shadow Form or Void Form and go with it... having to change forms back and forth has always been dumb, plus it was straight up copied over from old Demonology Warlocks which is just lazy. The two forms gimmick is entirely unnecessary.
I can't wait for Spriest to do competitive damage but have zero mobility with garbage defense and gameplay in PvE.

What a great patch.
10/27/2018 09:04 PMPosted by Ryfe
I can't wait for Spriest to do competitive damage but have zero mobility with garbage defense and gameplay in PvE.

What a great patch.


Good thing damage is important for dps in PvE, otherwise I’d be worried

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