3 Needed Guardian Changes

Druid
1) As with DKs & DHs still, change Frenzied Regeneration (BACK to what it did for YEARS) to heal based on the amount of damage taken within the previous 5 seconds.

2) Moonfire passive effect: Targets affected by Moonfire deal 4% less damage to you

3) Remove the Lunar Beam Talent (PLEASE) and replace it with Twin Moons: "Moonfire Deals 20% increased damage and also hits another nearby enemy within 15 yards of the target."

These changes would also stay in line with your current theme of transitioning Legendaries & Artifact traits from Legion into BFA and wouldn't do anything but make Moonfire and it's effects a little more engaging instead of purely being used for extra DPS.

It's almost as if Blizzard is completely ignoring the fact that the MoonBear build last expansion was not only extremely fun but engaging as well because of the passive damage reduction. Also, this would make all 3 of our level 100 row Talents viable choices depending on the content that you're doing and what your goals are with either the difficulty of the content or how you prefer to play.

One last note, the Frenzied Regen change would also add a little bit of passive Magic Damage assistance to add into the toolkit to heal for a bit more in Waycrest Manor for example.
As long as Frenzied Regen still healed for a minimum of what it currently does I'm cool with those changes.

I really like galactic guardian and having moon fire as a bear.
It's one of my favourite things about the spec. Any more interaction with it would make it that much cooler.

I'd like to see some interaction with Maul as well. Reducing the CD of frenzied regen or buffing your next iron fur like the azerite trait.
Hell even if it was off the gcd would be cool.
I'd actually like to see a portion of Moonfire damage heal you brought back in like we had in Legion on the legendary item. It created interactive self-sustain when you had multiple mobs.

For FR to work as a refund of damage taken model then the CD would need to be reduced or reworked. I'm reluctant to see it back to a rage-spend, the choice could create some redundancy (i.e. we heal ourselves but we end up taking more damage anyway as ironfur is not up).

Changing FR to a damage ability that refunds partial damage done as healing could work - perhaps a multiplier for each mob it (would help tanking large trash packs and offset our squishiness).
I also believe the affinities need to be looked at as well. They are uninteresting and only picked for their passives due to the fact that you would need to shift out of bear form.

One fix could be something like keeping the armor and stamina buff bear form give you for 5 or so seconds after shifting out to encourage weaving and add some complexity back into the spec. However, that still doesn't fix the problem that they are just uninteresting as a whole.

What if the different affinities augmented your abilities instead of just giving you ones from the other specs?

Lets keep this conversation going and fix bears.
10/28/2018 06:47 PMPosted by Blighters
I also believe the affinities need to be looked at as well. They are uninteresting and only picked for their passives due to the fact that you would need to shift out of bear form.
Spells added via affinity form into your spellbook are useless in PVE tanking. This is especially true when in m+ dungeon and you can't even shift out to use those spells. They should just allow bear tanks to simply cast those other forms' spells in bear form. With that in mind, restore affinity will give guardian healing toolkit while feral with bleed damage toolkit and balance with range combat toolkit.
I'd agree only if we are speaking about Feral and Balance. Resto affinity is fine combined with typhoon in order to swiftmend in M+.

I never want to take the ability to weave away from us but I'd rather see it as a skill we learn and not something that's forced upon us. For example, in M+ resto druids have a cat weaving spec that has a high skill cap. Why doesn't bears (or any other druid spec) have anything like that?

Now we're getting away from the OP so let's move back to what changes could bring us in line with the other tanks.

1) While I agree with the OP that FR needs to be changed I don't think I want it like the DK & DH. I don't care for classes feeling similar. I do think it could instead give a 10 second buff that heals you for 50% of the damage you do.

2) Yes.

3) I agree that Lunar Beam should go. However, the Balance legendary that gave us what is now known as twin moons was only good because we also had the Guardian legendary Fury of Nature. So giving us one and not the other doesn't really impact game play much outside of a bit more damage. Not sure what I'd put in place of it but it needs to be looked at.
I'd like to be able to case cleanse in bear form.

Often in my runs I'm the only one that can remove poison and curse and I can't do it because I shift out I'm dead.

And like the poison in SoB hurts. :(
Nice to see some feedback on here =)
I think that resto affinity is hugely overlooked in myth+. Being able to typhoon+swiftmend or being able to pop out in Freehold during Sharknado and toss a wild growth/regrowth on your party while they kite sharks makes a huge difference. I would love to see a return to MoonBear, even if it was an unintended playstyle it was a fun and interactive way to play! Looking forward to this 12% and getting vortex but would love to see lunar beam taken out.
solid feedback. i hope they at least take a look at it.
11/02/2018 03:43 AMPosted by Magnamutare
I think that resto affinity is hugely overlooked in myth+. Being able to typhoon+swiftmend or being able to pop out in Freehold during Sharknado and toss a wild growth/regrowth on your party while they kite sharks makes a huge difference. I would love to see a return to MoonBear, even if it was an unintended playstyle it was a fun and interactive way to play! Looking forward to this 12% and getting vortex but would love to see lunar beam taken out.


If you mis-time it, you die. A tyrannical boss will oneshot you, and a fortified boss will only probably oneshot you. That's a terrible risk, and I'd only do it if somebody was about to die.

Plus most bosses don't have that window.
No, I agree most bosses do not have a window to pop out and heal but about 1/3 of them do have opportunities to shift out of form and heal without too much risk. (examples first 3 bosses in waycrest, last boss in tol dagor(when casting deadeye), last boss in shrine etc. Still I would like to see us have our ability to remove poison in bear form.
But to the original post, we certainly should have FR back to what it was in legion to be reactive instead of a flat medium dot heal on a long timer and I agree get rid of lunar beam.
The problem I have with the design of the affinities is that if we allow us bears to use our resto affinities in bear form, then shouldn't resto spec be able to use guardian affinity in resto form? So you would have a healer who could heal, cast growl, mangle and such while in healer form? Would they get the benefit of extra health too while in healer (non shapeshifted) form?
FR % based on damage and the 3 charge QOL given in wod would be nice.

I loved moonbear but as another poster said without the back, it's really not as good as you would remember. The great thing about it was the sustain it provided. I still run GG but without the full toolkit around it it just doesn't feel like it belongs.

It would be better to give us back rots and change twisted claws from stacking agility to a 5-10% chance to cast an additional thrash.
10/28/2018 03:30 PMPosted by Nihillo
1) As with DKs & DHs still, change Frenzied Regeneration (BACK to what it did for YEARS) to heal based on the amount of damage taken within the previous 5 seconds.


You understand why they made the change, right?

If FR heals for 75% of the damage taken in the last 5 seconds that means that you can never heal for more than the damage you take. This means that you will always take damage and can never recover it 100%. You will ALWAYS need an outside heal, or to pop out of bear to give yourself a heal.

If you took 100 damage in the last 5 seconds, you will then heal for 75 damage. So ultimately you took 25 damage over all. As it stands you can never recover that 25 damage unless you get an outside heal.

The way it is now, you just heal for 18% of your overall health. (modified by your mastery) You can heal for more than the damage you're bringing in.

What I think they need to do is allow bears to cast Rejuv or Swiftmend while in bear form. Simple as that. It'll save us having to switch out to cast it, and it gives us a decent heal that will allow us to heal more than the damage we take. Thus keeping us high in health, rather than consistently losing health.
11/04/2018 03:59 PMPosted by Thrain


The way it is now, you just heal for 18% of your overall health. (modified by your mastery) You can heal for more than the damage you're bringing in.


If you can ever heal for more than you are taking, your self healing doesn't matter because your content is trival (or pvp). The point is to make it useful for large packs on M+ or raid bosses, instead of mostly useless.
10/28/2018 03:30 PMPosted by Nihillo
1) As with DKs & DHs still, change Frenzied Regeneration (BACK to what it did for YEARS) to heal based on the amount of damage taken within the previous 5 seconds.

2) Moonfire passive effect: Targets affected by Moonfire deal 4% less damage to you

3) Remove the Lunar Beam Talent (PLEASE) and replace it with Twin Moons: "Moonfire Deals 20% increased damage and also hits another nearby enemy within 15 yards of the target."

These changes would also stay in line with your current theme of transitioning Legendaries & Artifact traits from Legion into BFA and wouldn't do anything but make Moonfire and it's effects a little more engaging instead of purely being used for extra DPS.

It's almost as if Blizzard is completely ignoring the fact that the MoonBear build last expansion was not only extremely fun but engaging as well because of the passive damage reduction. Also, this would make all 3 of our level 100 row Talents viable choices depending on the content that you're doing and what your goals are with either the difficulty of the content or how you prefer to play.

One last note, the Frenzied Regen change would also add a little bit of passive Magic Damage assistance to add into the toolkit to heal for a bit more in Waycrest Manor for example.


Nihillo! My man. Love your vids, great source for M+ guidance. Appreciate all of it and keep up the good work.

100% agree on the FR revert. It’s safer now and steadier, but it simply does not scale well and it’s rather boring.

The other stuff, I’m not sure. Certainly not bad changes, but i would like to see Lunar Beam Replaced by Rage of the Sleeper.

Additionally something needs to be done about HP. One thing a Bear could always hang their hat on was having the most HP. Now due to the tank aura nerf and lack of mastery on three pieces of gear not having secondary, Bears have lost that niche.

Mark of Ursol returning(even if it’s like 8-10% DR) would be nice as well.
I also want my health back. We basically lost Mastery off 3 items and it shows...but we also lost a large chunk of health from just class changes as well. With my current ilvl and the gear config being what i've been handed by RNGesus, i'm sitting on around 230k health unbuffed... I feel like I am about 20-30k short of where I should be - definitely I have very low Mastery on my tank set right now and my rings are low ilvl, but without a mastery trinket on offer i'm still unlikely to get to where I feel I should be.

That was always our "thing"...most DK's and DH's have higher health pools and more mitigation. Give us back our massive damage sponge mechanic if you aren't giving us more survivability!

I've seen bears though that have stacked mastery as high as they can, taken as much 'bubble' and heal traits as possible and are performing very well... and had guildees mentioned doing high M+ runs where bears have been tanking and said they were really smooth to heal.
There aren't good changes. You're pidgeon-holing people into Galactic Guardian even further, and also adding a talent that REQUIRES Galactic Guardian to even be usable. Frenzied Regen change is meh to me - I don't oppose it but it's really not a big issue.

What Guardian really needs:
- Rage of the Sleeper, or ANY sort of meaningful offensive cooldown baseline, or at least some way for better snap aggro
- The ability to shift while tanking (ie. short duration passive buff after leaving bear form) OR more spells usable in bear form
- Higher threat/damage (seems to be the case for 8.1 already)

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